OKC in the NYTimes

[kevinpate]

not meaning to seem petty, but some mild paranoia is showing.

We have silos. We have large steel other things. We have pastures, inside the city limits no less. So do other folkds, but we seem to obsess on these things more.

Also, lots of folks in the metro area wouldn't know who KD is unless he was in uniform or with an adequate crowd that you might start making the connection and checking the memory banks. I've heard of him and seen him, sure. However, put him in a polo and slacks and plop him at a bar or a local dining spot and I could sit down next to him and not have a clue, unless he said something to bring it up or someone else approached him and mentioned it.

I don't hate bball, not at all, but I'm no more than an occasional watcher. About the same for football folks. Bradford of OU I would recognize because he reminds me of a younger version of someone I know, and as the chap I know doesn't do time travel, I'd probably notice him and then recall 'oh yeah, bet that's Bradford.'

Most folks here bouts don't seem to mob someone who is famous. Sure, some will, but by and large, it's just respectful not to assert yourself onto someone who is out and about, simply trying to be in hopes of a nice evening. And as noted, some of us can sit near a king and be none the wiser.

[metro]

We definitely have the smallest TV market in the NBA.

[O-city]

What are you looking at for TV ratings? Everything I find we are NOT the smallest media market.

[OKCMallen]

yeah, I was surprised Matthew said that too. I have to disagree with that statement.

1. Pertinent or common to the whole world: an issue of cosmopolitan import.
2. Having constituent elements from all over the world or from many different parts of the world: the ancient and cosmopolitan societies of Syria and Egypt.
3. So sophisticated as to be at home in all parts of the world or conversant with many spheres of interest: a cosmopolitan traveler.


Guys, we just don't fit the bill. We probably never will. And I'm fine with that. We can't all be Chicago, NYC, Rome, Paris, London, Tokyo. I don't want to be those, either, necessarily.

If you think that Oklahoma City will ever, ever be a "member of the world" type city, or pertinent to the whole world, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. That's doesn't mean we don't need to be as completely badass as possible and be proud of our fair city...just being realistic.

[Patrick]

Maybe not in the strict definition of the word, but I would say we're pretty diverse.

[Bunty]

I sat next to 3 of them at the bar at Chili's one night.

Good Lord. Don't a lot of people on here just absolutely can not stand Chili's as a decent place to go eat and/or drink?

[onthestrip]

Also, lots of folks in the metro area wouldn't know who KD is unless he was in uniform or with an adequate crowd that you might start making the connection and checking the memory banks. I've heard of him and seen him, sure. However, put him in a polo and slacks and plop him at a bar or a local dining spot and I could sit down next to him and not have a clue, unless he said something to bring it up or someone else approached him and mentioned it.

Really? The guy is 6'9" and was like 5th in the league in scoring last year. I know that the author mentioned that he goes unnoticed in OKC but I just find that odd or hard to believe, the dude is incredible. I would think he would be more recognizable. Maybe in some instances, people in OKC choose not to interrupt him when he is out. Maybe its that the Thunder is not doing more promotional stuff. They do need to find a way to get more people in our city and state watching games. Them making every televised game in HD this year will help hopefully.

However, a lot of the unfamiliar OKC citizens will begin to know who he is very shortly as I see this being a big season for him. This year he certainly looks to become an All Star for the first time.

[PennyQuilts]

We are what we are. The worst thing I can say about the silos and pastures is that they are charming and make for healthy living. Not one thing wrong with them. (However, I should point out that we don't really have that many silos. I'm near DC and there are a zillion silos in the countryside outside the beltway. I sure wouldn't have thought of OKC as defined by silos). The kids in OKC are luckier than so many because they have a downtown in a capital city (so you can pretty much get everything you need) and still have the country experience. Plenty of people have to choose one or the other. That you have both in OKC is an amazing advantage.

You can go to a small European city and sneer that it is dirty and backward, or you can rave about its character, history and charm. Bitch about its narrow streets or fight to preserve them. OKC is OKC. It can be made better, certainly, but all the angst and self doubt reminds me of a young girl who thinks she has to have breast augmentation to be liked.

[Midtowner]

metro, you care so much about okc, yet you dislike random things about the city we both love. It's so weird some times.

We are a bit of a hick town! Embrace it. We're a bit hickish, we're a bit cowboy, we're a lot oil and gas, and we have an nba team and deep urban revival.

You know what makes other towns seem cooler than okc?! They embrace their differences. Austin is highly liberal and weird, for instance. They embrace that. We're a little city gettin' big. We have mild accents. There are grain elevators converted into indoor climbing facilities. There are lots of undeveloped areas in the middle of our city (i.e.- green areas). We dip stuff in ranch. We like chicken fried steak. We listen to country music. We're not at the front of economic or fashion trends. We are not a cosmopolitan city and never will be one...but we can be and are great. Who the hell cares about a silo in the background; people in nyc probably find that fascinating. I don't want to dallas my okc.

We're okc. We make no apologies. And the sooner everyone gets that, we can shed this self-loathing lack of definition we've had for so damned long.

+1 +1 +1 +1

I'm never ashamed of my hometown. Never will be. OKC is a great place to live, there's plenty to do, great educational facilities exist, etc., etc.

[Patrick]

What's wrong with silos?

Kind of an interesting house:

[Patrick]

Here's a silo that was converted into an apartment building:

[MikeOKC]

I think it was a pretty bad article. Looking down the nose at Oklahoma City in several ways. Let HIM know what you think! Jonathan Abrams of the NYT is active on Twitter: Jonathan Abrams (Jpdabrams) on Twitter

[john60]

There's no such thing as bad publicity...

[soonerguru]

1. Pertinent or common to the whole world: an issue of cosmopolitan import.
2. Having constituent elements from all over the world or from many different parts of the world: the ancient and cosmopolitan societies of Syria and Egypt.
3. So sophisticated as to be at home in all parts of the world or conversant with many spheres of interest: a cosmopolitan traveler.


Guys, we just don't fit the bill. We probably never will. And I'm fine with that. We can't all be Chicago, NYC, Rome, Paris, London, Tokyo. I don't want to be those, either, necessarily.

If you think that Oklahoma City will ever, ever be a "member of the world" type city, or pertinent to the whole world, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. That's doesn't mean we don't need to be as completely badass as possible and be proud of our fair city...just being realistic.

You're not being realistic, you're being pessimistic. You're also apparently not open to the possibility that we could be cosmopolitan.

If our economy grows, we continue to prosper, and become a more interesting place to live and destination for tourists, we WOULD become more cosmopolitan. Frankly, OKC is much more cosmopolitan than it was 10 years ago.

There are many smaller cities than NYC that are cosmopolitan, like Portland and Austin, for example. I see no reason we cannot aspire to those cities.

What you're saying sounds very depressing. I know you don't mean to come across that way.

But you have to look at it this way: young people are deciding whether to take a chance on OKC improving and becoming more big city, or moving elsewhere "because it will never happen here." Your statement, though you may not mean it this way, is an open invitation for a lot of people to leave.

[Millie]

But you have to look at it this way: young people are deciding whether to take a chance on OKC improving and becoming more big city, or moving elsewhere "because it will never happen here." Your statement, though you may not mean it this way, is an open invitation for a lot of people to leave.

So all "young people" want to live in a big city? I- and plenty of people I know- chose to move to OKC because of its size, atmosphere, attitude, and- get this- culture. I've lived in big cities. I didn't like the expense, the traffic, or the people. I'd much rather live here, save my money, enjoy looking at the cattle and open fields, etc. Matter of fact, the last few times I've visited friends in more "cosmopolitan" places, I've spent most of the trip being amazed at how lucky I am to not have to deal with the headaches they encounter.

Just my opinion.

[dmoor82]

We definitely have the smallest TV market in the NBA.

^^^^^^by TV market size-OKC is ranked 45th in The U.S. w/ 694,030 households and a % of the total U.S. share of 0.604% and Memphis ranks in at # 50. w/ 667,660 and a share of 0.581% and even smaller is N.O. w/633,220 households an a 0.551 % share of U.S. households!----and when it comes to population of Metro populations of NBA cities OKC is still not last! Memphis and New Orleans are still smaller! I am not trying to be anal about this, I just want people to know we are not THE smallest market, but ONE of them! --but none of the articles I've read distinguish that!

[okcpulse]

We definitely have the smallest TV market in the NBA.

No, actually Memphis does. And they have the smallest population of all NBA markets. But you don't see NYT doing stories on the peculiarities of Memphis, either.

See, we don't obsess until an outsider comes to OKC hunting down pastures and cattle and writes about it unnecessarliy. That gets really old.

[kevinpate]

> Really? The guy is 6'9" and was like 5th in the league in scoring last year.

yes, really. Out of uniform, he is a tall reasonably muscular, without being beefy, young black man. More than a tad taller than many other similarly built young men of his age bracket, but not the only very tall young man in town. As I don't come across folks who top my own height regularly, if we're both standing, yeah, I'd likely assume a bballer for some team.

Though if seated, height is mostly out of the equation. But even if seeing him enter, is the young man entering KD with the Thunder, a college player for OCU, SNU, OU, OSU, TU or a player up from Texas, or down from KS on a family visit, or a player from any other location, an actor, a current or former player passing through from wherevahville, or just a young man in sales who gets tired of being asked if he plays bball, even though he never has due to some non-obvious condition.

If you don't know his face, like myself or many, many others, the tall chap at the bar or the next table can be any of the above as easily as he can be Durant.

I know it is Oklahoma, but it is possible for folks to not have an athlete facial recognition program stored in one's noggin. Semi-sorta sucks if the athlete is wanting to be noticed, but it provides a minor blessing if an athlete just wants to chill out of the limelight.

[okcpulse]

If you think that Oklahoma City will ever, ever be a "member of the world" type city, or pertinent to the whole world, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.

That's a dangerous assumption to make. Can you predict the future? People 19 years ago said that Oklahoma City... scratch that. Let me enumerate the "never" statements I've heard over the years regarding Oklahoma City...

"Oklahoma City will never have professional sports."
"Oklahoma City will never be able to support pro sports."
"MAPS will never work. Don't buy a wooden nickel!"
"Oklahoma City will never have money like it did in the early eighties."
"Oklahoma City will never recover from the oil bust."
"The Skirvin is going to get demolished. Mark my words."
"There will never be water in that river. Who'd want to go down there anyway?"
"Tattooing will never be legal in Oklahoma. Too many conservatives."
"Casino gambling will never pass. This state's too conservative."
"The lottery doesn't stand a chance in Oklahoma. This is the bible belt."

I mean... do you see where I am going with this? These were actual remarks made by people from the 1990s... friends in my high school, relatives and conversations I've overheard.

Not saying that Oklahoma City will be world class or never will be world class. I'm just saying never say never. You cannot predict the future. That's being a realist. Did anyone in 1985 think Dubai, U.A.E. was going to have dozens of supertall futuristic skyscrapers that are all engineering marvels? Or that Phoenix would be a burgh larger than Dallas proper by the year 2000?

[soonerguru]

So all "young people" want to live in a big city? I- and plenty of people I know- chose to move to OKC because of its size, atmosphere, attitude, and- get this- culture. I've lived in big cities. I didn't like the expense, the traffic, or the people. I'd much rather live here, save my money, enjoy looking at the cattle and open fields, etc. Matter of fact, the last few times I've visited friends in more "cosmopolitan" places, I've spent most of the trip being amazed at how lucky I am to not have to deal with the headaches they encounter.

Just my opinion.

Current demographic trends are undeniable in this regard. The answer is a resounding yes. I spoke to a young commercial leasing agent yesterday, who said, "I just wish Oklahoma City had more big-city things to offer. I'm leaving as soon as I graduate."

It's really sad the amount of talent we lose every year to bigger cities.

By the way, by "big city" I didn't mean a city of 10 million people. I'm talking about a city with a little more diversity of options that one might find in a big city. *AHEM* A slightly more cosmopolitan city.

[PennyQuilts]

It is true that a lot of youngsters leave. I respectfully suggest that that should be balanced with an investigation of how many return. I have repeatedly seen where people return to Oklahoma after a few years away, reportedly at a much higher rate than those who leave bigger cities. I can tell you that I never, ever appreciated OKC until I had the opportunity to see how the big cities live, i.e., DC. As a younger person, it was exciting. At a certain point, it is just not worth the extreme hassle. Oklahoma is like how you feel when you sink into your own bed at the end of a rough day.

[bluedogok]

Though if seated, height is mostly out of the equation. But even if seeing him enter, is the young man entering KD with the Thunder, a college player for OCU, SNU, OU, OSU, TU or a player up from Texas, or down from KS on a family visit, or a player from any other location, an actor, a current or former player passing through from wherevahville, or just a young man in sales who gets tired of being asked if he plays bball, even though he never has due to some non-obvious condition.

Well, if he hadn't of left UT after one season then he would be headed into his senior year here in Austin. So I can see where some might think he would be a college player since he hasn't been marketed (and therefore over exposed) like some other players.

[soonerguru]

It is true that a lot of youngsters leave. I respectfully suggest that that should be balanced with an investigation of how many return. I have repeatedly seen where people return to Oklahoma after a few years away, reportedly at a much higher rate than those who leave bigger cities. I can tell you that I never, ever appreciated OKC until I had the opportunity to see how the big cities live, i.e., DC. As a younger person, it was exciting. At a certain point, it is just not worth the extreme hassle. Oklahoma is like how you feel when you sink into your own bed at the end of a rough day.

Don't you still live in a big city?

Regardless, my comment was regarding the cosmopolitan aspects of cities, not necessarily their size. I wouldn't particularly want to live where you live, either.

[feconi]

Current demographic trends are undeniable in this regard. The answer is a resounding yes. I spoke to a young commercial leasing agent yesterday, who said, "I just wish Oklahoma City had more big-city things to offer. I'm leaving as soon as I graduate."

It's really sad the amount of talent we lose every year to bigger cities.

By the way, by "big city" I didn't mean a city of 10 million people. I'm talking about a city with a little more diversity of options that one might find in a big city.

"Young talent" doesn't just necessarily pick up and go wherever. OKC loses a lot of recent graduates because it doesn't have the job market to retain them. I know it's anecdotal, but I'd honestly estimate that at least three quarters of the newly minted engineers and scientists I know from OU and OSU moved to Texas after graduation (predominantly Houston and Austin). Having said that, I also know several of them would have preferred to stay in OKC or Tulsa after graduating, but just couldn't find a good job in either city. Not all young people share the opinion of your friend--OKC is "cosmopolitan" enough for many. A perceived lack of "big city things to offer" is not the primary factor driving this flux of new graduates out of Oklahoma.

[soonerguru]

A perceived lack of "big city things to offer" is not the primary factor driving this flux of new graduates out of Oklahoma.

I'm sure you have lots of hard data to back this up. Forget it. Let's just settle for being a second-tier city. We'll never be sophisticated. If people want something more, they'll have to move. At least it's cheap and a great place to raise a family, the only qualities of life aspects anyone cares about. Oh, and there's plenty of surface parking, a wide variety of chain restaurant selections, a no traffic to speak of. Nirvana!

Why even bother with MAPS? OKC is the greatest city on the planet and God knows we wouldn't want it to change or become a little more sophisticated. In fact, why even post on this forum? After tonight, I've learned it's fruitless to hope OKC will ever become more "big city," and if it were, everyone would want to leave because of the headaches and traffic, and it wouldn't even help us retain our young talent.

Wow! Now I'm liberated. There's no point posting here anymore if our city should stay exactly the same. Instead, I'm going to learn to enjoy grain silos, that's really who we are and all we will ever be.