Galleria Mall - Downtown

[metro]

The City shouldn't be getting into the retail business in the first place. Let the private sector locate businesses where it wishes (within legal zoning requirements). Besides, didn't you "dream" Crossroads is making a comeback and your dreams come true? So then what's all this negative rhetoric.

[mugofbeer]

Penn Square is probably so well off because us southsiders have to rely on that mall, since ours is on its deathbed. See the trend? We drive 10-15 minutes, just to help that side of town prosper, while even our strip malls are thin of new businesses, let alone our mall.

Penn Square is off to a good start due to the people over there, plus a mixture of those of us on southside who want a good shopping experience, but is close, yet so far away.

How can southside flourish like other areas, building a good amount of plazas and filling them with new businesses and doing something with all the abandoned areas we have, if we are giving our money to certain sectors of the city?

A senior manager friend of mine from Toys R Us, told me that Southside TRU may close down, due to the impending Moore location. If they think I am going to shop there, because they can't just give Moore a convienant location, while keeping their other locations, then they are dead wrong. It is all about convienance, and us southsiders are getting **** on, because we are spending our money in the wrong places. I even heard they may close their Norman location, which isn't fair to Norman people who have supported them for years upon years, just for them to bail to greater pastures, making it more convienant for them, not the customer.

If it were up to me, I would have all these plazas filled in southside. Tell these lasy capitalist pigs who think to only put a bingo hall in a plaza and reap the rewards, to cut it out, of get the **** out. They're wasting the potential southside has to grow, because they want to be lazy and sit on all the cash coming in. I would have Crossroads fixed up, city bought, and fixed up into retail, or I'd bulldoze the POS, and make way for a nice outdoor shopping district.

I believe in equality. Moore, northside, Quail, Edmond, Norman and southside, all deserve some lovin in the retail sector. Sadly though, retail is bailing on those they relied on for so many years, and going to better pastures, while expecting those they relied on to drive further when gas is rising yet again.

I never support anything that uses my money just to bail, and make things more inconvienant for me. Other's will in time, get smart to the fact as well.

In before they cant do this during this bad economy.

I do find it unfortunate that Crossroads is in the condition it is in but keep in mind, that whether you spend your tax dollars on the south side or on the north side, as long as you spend in OKC, the tax dollars will go to the same place. Unfortunately, it appears the south side just doesn't spend its money in mall type settings, but rather spends at Wal Mart or other strip center stores. Plus, Crossroads has competition you may not think of in Heritage Park mall (also on the ropes) and Sooner Fashion Mall in Norman (unknown health but with the new development next to Westheimer airport in Norman, look for Sooner Fashion to have some real problems soon). In its rush to get new tax revenue from the huge project, I hope Norman didn't kill off another shopping area.

[ElmoFromOK]

Whoa! I had no idea we had an FAO Schwarz here. I was just about to bring up the Sheraton Century Center shopping area as well. I was a kid in the 70's and somehow never knew about this awesome toy store being there.

My parents got some splainin' to do!!

[ElmoFromOK]

I believe in equality. Moore, northside, Quail, Edmond, Norman and southside, all deserve some lovin in the retail sector. Sadly though, retail is bailing on those they relied on for so many years, and going to better pastures, while expecting those they relied on to drive further when gas is rising yet again.

Retail follows the money. There is more money (and higher incomes) in the Penn Sq area than there is in the Crossroads area.

[ElmoFromOK]

Seems like a large indoor mall is a doomed idea these days. Less and less people are willing to go out of their way to shop in a mall when they can instead shop online from work or home and have it all brought to them.

The only time I can see shopping making a comeback in downtown is if quality stores with high curb appeal can open in areas where people are going to be anyway. They might have some success capturing some business that way. Sadly, I do not find it likely that this will happen.

That being said, I really wish we would create some quality shopping experiences downtown. Seems like this is one of the puzzle pieces we still have to solve in our long road towards building a amazing downtown OKC .

[Patrick]

Penn Square is probably so well off because us southsiders have to rely on that mall, since ours is on its deathbed. See the trend? We drive 10-15 minutes, just to help that side of town prosper, while even our strip malls are thin of new businesses, let alone our mall.

Actually looking at demographics on Penn Square, it's mostly supported by the area around it, mostly Nichols Hills. But, it draws from all over the city, including Edmond. Demographics show it's actually supported by Yukon and Mustang more than any other area outside the region surrounding the mall. Looking at Simon's demographics, only about 5% of shoppers come from the south side.

Penn Square is off to a good start due to the people over there, plus a mixture of those of us on southside who want a good shopping experience, but is close, yet so far away.

Off to a good start? The mall is the oldest "retail" mall in the city, so there's a long history there, both good and bad. Shepherd is older, but it's no longer retail.

How can southside flourish like other areas, building a good amount of plazas and filling them with new businesses and doing something with all the abandoned areas we have, if we are giving our money to certain sectors of the city?

Most of your retail is now concentrated in Moore and Norman, both booming suburbs on the south side.

A senior manager friend of mine from Toys R Us, told me that Southside TRU may close down, due to the impending Moore location. If they think I am going to shop there, because they can't just give Moore a convienant location, while keeping their other locations, then they are dead wrong. It is all about convienance, and us southsiders are getting **** on, because we are spending our money in the wrong places. I even heard they may close their Norman location, which isn't fair to Norman people who have supported them for years upon years, just for them to bail to greater pastures, making it more convienant for them, not the customer.

It's all about demographics and location. Toys R Us is struggling, and they're probably just wanting to consolidate their 2 south side stores into one......right in the middle of the 2 in Moore.

If it were up to me, I would have all these plazas filled in southside. Tell these lasy capitalist pigs who think to only put a bingo hall in a plaza and reap the rewards, to cut it out, of get the **** out. They're wasting the potential southside has to grow, because they want to be lazy and sit on all the cash coming in. I would have Crossroads fixed up, city bought, and fixed up into retail, or I'd bulldoze the POS, and make way for a nice outdoor shopping district.

Crossroads will never be a successful retail center again. The demographics just aren't there. It's similar to what happened to Shepherd Mall. The demographics around Shepherd Mall changed, just as the demographics around Crossroads Mall have changed. If you want a retail center on the south side, you'll have more luck going for the SW 104th and Penn area.

I believe in equality. Moore, northside, Quail, Edmond, Norman and southside, all deserve some lovin in the retail sector. Sadly though, retail is bailing on those they relied on for so many years, and going to better pastures, while expecting those they relied on to drive further when gas is rising yet again.

Actually it's the southsiders that have bailed for greener pastures in Moore and Norman. Retail just follows demographics. The money unfortunately, has moved south.

I never support anything that uses my money just to bail, and make things more inconvienant for me. Other's will in time, get smart to the fact as well.

It all comes down to business. Retailers are in the business to make money. They're going to locate in areas that are most likely best for their business. When retailers make decisions about locations, it all comes down to the bottom line. And who can blame them, especially in this tough economy. To stay out of bankruptcy, they have to make smart business decisions.

[Patrick]

Seems like a large indoor mall is a doomed idea these days. Less and less people are willing to go out of their way to shop in a mall when they can instead shop online from work or home and have it all brought to them.

Yes and no. Obviously, the trend now is to build outdoor lifestyle centers. But really, these aren't much different than malls. They're just outdoor malls. Had the trend not changed, you'd see indoor malls still being built. Retail would still get built regardless.

Indoor malls in areas with good demographics and backed by solid management companies are still doing well, and will continue to do so. Poorly managed indoor malls in declining areas will fail, just as any retail center would. So, I don't think you can completely place the blame in the "indoor mall" as much as changing demographics and changing trends for new retail concepts.

The only time I can see shopping making a comeback in downtown is if quality stores with high curb appeal can open in areas where people are going to be anyway. They might have some success capturing some business that way. Sadly, I do not find it likely that this will happen.

Retail follows rooftops. We need to get more people living downtown, and then maybe we'll see more downtown retail.

That being said, I really wish we would create some quality shopping experiences downtown. Seems like this is one of the puzzle pieces we still have to solve in our long road towards building a amazing downtown OKC .

Again, the key rests with creating more downtown residents. Also, we'll have to come up with a proposed planned retail development. Depending on retail to develop on its own typically doesn't happen. Retail stores typically clump in well planned and developed retail centers. This doesn't have to be a lifestyle center. It can be a well planned urban development. Having a common owner of all of the warehouses on the north canal in Bricktown with a clear focus of creating a retail center would be a plus. Or the same could be done in Automobile Alley, Midtown, or wherever you want to locate it.

[jbrown84]

How can southside flourish like other areas, building a good amount of plazas and filling them with new businesses and doing something with all the abandoned areas we have, if we are giving our money to certain sectors of the city?

That's not the fault of anyone but "southsiders" who don't shop in their own retail developments. You are the ones that stopped shopping at Crossroads.

I believe in equality. Moore, northside, Quail, Edmond, Norman and southside, all deserve some lovin in the retail sector.

There is no equality in business. That's just the way it is. Sorry.

[mmonroe]

Ok, let my better try to explain myself I guess. And mind you, it is an opinion.

We don't have a defining attraction that when you're here you say, "I'm in Oklahoma City." I was purely using the arch, crazy horse, rushmore etc. as examples. I don't believe I ever stated that every city I visited had each and every single one of those examples but a few did have defining attractions that let you know where you were at.

What happened to the observation tower that was going to be built near the river?

[bluedogok]

To most national retailers, Moore is "Southside OKC", it's south of downtown and there is still a large population south of it. Most don't distinguish parts of town by whatever city it's in until it's time to try and get incentives, then they will definitely play an OKC vs. Moore vs. Norman. The area around Crossroads has always been more industrial, not that many residential rooftops and not the ones with large amounts of disposable income that retailers covet.

[metro]

Ok, let my better try to explain myself I guess. And mind you, it is an opinion.

We don't have a defining attraction that when you're here you say, "I'm in Oklahoma City." I was purely using the arch, crazy horse, rushmore etc. as examples. I don't believe I ever stated that every city I visited had each and every single one of those examples but a few did have defining attractions that let you know where you were at.

What happened to the observation tower that was going to be built near the river?

You're talking about Energy Tower, which wasn't really a real proposal with legs, just a wishful state legislator's dream. The thing was a joke really....definitely wouldn't have been iconic, the way the rendering showed it.

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...fel-tower.html

[Pete]

FYI, I just returned from Milwaukee and their downtown mall -- Grand Ave -- is dead. Still a few stores hang on but it looks to be 75% vacant.

Milwaukee has always had a lot of downtown retail and kept all their big department stores downtown, even in the suburban flight of the 60's and 70's. All those stores are gone now (part of the massive consolidation in that industry) and there is a big Borders in the old 8-story Gimble's building.

In fact, Grand Avenue merely occupied several alleyways between existing downtown department stores that had been in place for decades. It's a very cool design.


There is still quite a bit of retail in and around downtown, just not in the mall.

Also, their Northridge Mall (opened about the same time as Crossroads) is completely shuttered now. It's on the northwest side of town.

[jbrown84]

We don't have a defining attraction that when you're here you say, "I'm in Oklahoma City."

What happened to the observation tower that was going to be built near the river?

UHHH, The Memorial???

How is that tacky giant oil well defining (Six Flags Over Texas has one) and the memorial is not? Or the Native American Cultural Center? Or the Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum? Even the Chihuly collection.