MAPS for prisoners?

[hoya]

Dismayed, have you ever seen the inside of the jail?

Luke, I know the firm that designed it had never built a jail before. They didn't know what the hell they were doing.

[okyeah]

hoyasooner, you should launch a grassroots campaign for this. I'd choose it over maps 384,733,545

[USG '60]

And on top of everything else, the building contractors paid off all the inspectors to turn the proverbial blind eye. What did that first fix cost on the glass blocks, plumbing, etc? I forgot. All involved should have been shot or sent to Texas ...one or the other.

[okcpulse]

I do know for a fact that the engineers designed the jail with plumbing that belongs in an office building, which is only in use 12 hours a day at most. And people are in office buildings to work, not to live.

Engineers did not take into account the fact that the jail, at full capacity or not, is in use 24 hours a day. The plumbing simply can't handle the capacity, hence all of the plumbing problems.

The people who designed this jail ought to be canned and sent down to the bottom of the barrel sector of the work force for the rest of their lives serving hot dogs and wearing a funny hat. Although I am sure 20 years later most of them are retired or otherwise.

[Oil Capital]

Dismayed, have you ever seen the inside of the jail?

Luke, I know the firm that designed it had never built a jail before. They didn't know what the hell they were doing.

And didn't that firm go out of business, largely because of their work on the jail project?

[Oil Capital]

westside, can you compare the costs to other similarly sized jails in other metro counties? Comparing it to Cleveland County or the Bricktown Ballpark, is apples and oranges.

Of the numbers quoted here so far, the Cleveland County jail seems the most appropriate comparison. Sure, it's a lot smaller, but it seems multiplying the constructions costs by the differential in number of beds should get you to a pretty good estimate. And it seems logical that a larger facility should be able to be built for less per bed than a smaller one.

I believe the Cleveland Co. Jail is slated to have something like 535 beds? This proposed OK Co jail is to have 3,376, 6.3 times as many as Cleveland Co.
6.3 x $45 Million = $283.5 Million.

[westsidesooner]

Why are the costs so high? The Sears Tower renovations covered about 3 floors, as I understand it. The problem with the jail is it needs to be secure. It can't just be any old building. Crossroads? There's no way they could have any safe oversight of that building.

Hoya....excellent post. Thank you. I still wish I knew who was in chage of giving the "ok" on such a horrible design. And who was in charge of hiring a firm that had never built a jail before. Mind-blowing to the extreme. A jail is definitley not the place to cut corners.......I guess we got what we paid for huh...

As for my post on the sears/willis tower renovations I understand that you cant really compare the two, but my understanding is that the renovations will cover the entire tower. I didnt mean to be misleading or even try to compare the two eye for eye. I was just puzzled over how such a huge building could be revamped, or for that matter a fifty story hotel could be built for less money than is being proposed for a much smaller (though obviously more secure) jail building. I plead my ignornace in construction cost....but still curious.

The improvements, detailed on the Sears Tower website, Willis Tower - a global icon, a premier business location, a breathtaking skydeck view are to involve replacing and glazing the 16,000 single-pane windows; and upgrading boilers, elevators, escalators, lighting restroom fixtures and water management systems.

[trousers]

[QUOTE=Luke;239174]How about changing the laws a bit so we don't incarcerate so many people in the first place.

Incarceration Rate - Kaiser State Health Facts

As it is, Oklahoma ranks 4th per capita in incarceration rate. Also, the US incarcerates more people than any other nation on the planet.

Something doesn't sound right.

This.

[bbhill]

How about we quit incarcerating so many nonviolent offenders like recreational marijuana users?

[Patrick]

The contract went to the lowest bidder. The company has sense changed its name and actually built a dam or two on the Oklahoma River. So, the city is still using this contractor. Their current name: CP Integrated Services. Their name when they built the Oklahoma County jail: RGDC Inc.

[bbhill]

The contract went to the lowest bidder. The company has sense changed its name and actually built a dam or two on the Oklahoma River. So, the city is still using this contractor. Their current name: CP Integrated Services. Their name when they built the Oklahoma County jail: RGDC Inc.

Hopefully these aren't the same people that screwed up the bridges on the west end of the Kilpatrick Turnpike. lol Perhaps Oklahoma should start looking at other issues in addition to cost?

[hoya]

Hoya....excellent post. Thank you. I still wish I knew who was in chage of giving the "ok" on such a horrible design. And who was in charge of hiring a firm that had never built a jail before. Mind-blowing to the extreme. A jail is definitley not the place to cut corners.......I guess we got what we paid for huh...

As for my post on the sears/willis tower renovations I understand that you cant really compare the two, but my understanding is that the renovations will cover the entire tower. I didnt mean to be misleading or even try to compare the two eye for eye. I was just puzzled over how such a huge building could be revamped, or for that matter a fifty story hotel could be built for less money than is being proposed for a much smaller (though obviously more secure) jail building. I plead my ignornace in construction cost....but still curious.

The improvements, detailed on the Sears Tower website, Willis Tower - a global icon, a premier business location, a breathtaking skydeck view are to involve replacing and glazing the 16,000 single-pane windows; and upgrading boilers, elevators, escalators, lighting restroom fixtures and water management systems.

Then my bad on the Sears Tower. I saw something on the news about it, and my impression was the renovations were only supposed to cover 3 floors. But that might have been the 3 floors that Willis was moving their offices into.

I'm not exactly eager to pay more money in taxes for another jail. We really shouldn't have to build another one so soon after we built the last one, but it's one of those situations where we don't have much choice.

[OUSoonerfan3]

The contract went to the lowest bidder. The company has sense changed its name and actually built a dam or two on the Oklahoma River. So, the city is still using this contractor. Their current name: CP Integrated Services. Their name when they built the Oklahoma County jail: RGDC Inc.

So RGDC, a national design firm based out of Miami, FL became CPI, a small Oklahoma based road and bridge building company? Really?

On edit: Manhattan Construction was the General Contractor for the jail. HTB and RGDC were the architect/engineering firms.

[mugofbeer]

I had to laugh when I saw someone bring up the same thought I had a few weeks ago. Crossroads Mall is going out of business. It will be closed within a year or two. Why NOT think outside the box and use it for a county jail? I am not an architect or an engineer but I know Denver was considering buying and converting an old warehouse into a city jail before the residents of the nearby neighborhoods complained too much. There aren't any residential areas within 1/4 mile of the actual mall building at Crossroads. It would be a good place for it and would show the city / county is trying to be prudent with taxpayer money.

[bdl1411]

Maybe the incarceration rate is so high because the United States has a better police force and judicial system than most, if not all other countries? Maybe it's that combined with the industrialization of the US creating lots of cites in which people are living together, creating more crime..and we hold them accountable.

Or the United States judges are overzealous dictator a-holes. I really have no clue...but I think maybe my idea is plausible.....maybe...

[Luke]

Maybe it's that combined with the industrialization of the US creating lots of cites in which people are living together, creating more crime..and we hold them accountable.

What's the crime in someone who wants to do drugs? Other than someone saying it is?

If we're going to legislate people's lives that much, then how about we legislate the food they each. Heart disease is the number one killer in the US. We've levied heavy taxes on tobacco, why not tax producers of foods with a certain fat content.

Why not? Because people should be free. Free to be stupid, free to be fat, free to smoke... Free to do what they want as long as the don't harm anyone else. And as soon as they do, then they should be accountable to those actions.

[bdl1411]

What's the crime in someone who wants to do drugs? Other than someone saying it is?

If we're going to legislate people's lives that much, then how about we legislate the food they each. Heart disease is the number one killer in the US. We've levied heavy taxes on tobacco, why not tax producers of foods with a certain fat content.

Why not? Because people should be free. Free to be stupid, free to be fat, free to smoke... Free to do what they want as long as the don't harm anyone else. And as soon as they do, then they should be accountable to those actions.

Drugs often lead to crime with the users' heads being tripped out. Even if it doesn't, the addict becomes an unproductive drain on society. In jail he does this too...but at least there's some deterrence set up....in the form of DARE not to do drugs or enjoy your stay in jail.

Fat people don't hurt people physically...beside their eyes. They are not more likely to hold up a convenience store in order to pay for their fix of twinkies.

I am not saying all addicts are violent..I'm just saying it does increase the propensity towards it and renders them pretty ineffective at liiiiiiiiiiife.

[USG '60]

Luke, let's also mention that besides being free to be stupid and/or fat they should also be free to suffer the consequences without you, me and others bailing their butts out and paying their bills.

BD, that isn't hard to understand is it?

Freedom was never meant to be easy on individuals. There are decisions to be made and consequences to be paid. We need to pay our own tuition to the school of Hard Knocks.

[bdl1411]

I understand what you are saying, I just don't agree.

[Luke]

Drugs often lead to crime with the users' heads being tripped out.

Then why don't we outlaw alcohol?

[mugofbeer]

We already have alcohol, we don't need another one by legalizing pot. We already have to worry about drunk drivers, why worry about stoned employees, stoned drivers, stoned neighbors running over our children while they back out of the driveway (yes, it happened in my neighborhood in Denver).

[Smokin Joe]

[QUOTE=trousers;239435]

As it is, Oklahoma ranks 4th per capita in incarceration rate. Something doesn't sound right.

Yea... You can Thank Valley Brook for that one....

How about we quit incarcerating so many nonviolent offenders like recreational marijuana users?

No Kiddin.. But hey.. We got 3.2 beer... and can't even buy a bottle of wine at the grocery store as we go home and cook dinner....

We don;t need a new Jail, we need a new way of thinking...

I love Oklahoma, God and Freedom, but sometimes we are just so backwards.

Joe

[bdl1411]

Then why don't we outlaw alcohol?

Beats me, it worked delightfully well the first time. ; )

[hoya]

I don't want to get into the whole outlawing drugs thing. Drugs mess you up, period. Whether people should be free to flush their lives away, that's a question bigger than our next county jail. Remember, freedom isn't just some blanket ability to act as you want in all situations.

Again, we can't turn Crossroads into a new county jail. Well, we could, but it would be a bad idea. It's not designed as a jail. We'd basically have to tear our the entire inside and rebuild it. It's so far removed from what a jail looks like that it's not even funny.

[Luke]

Remember, freedom isn't just some blanket ability to act as you want in all situations.

Just how you want them to act?

I'm against drug abuse just as much as most people are. I want people to live happy, healthy, productive lives. However, if people want to eat big macs everyday, smoke a pack a day, go bungee jumping, cliff diving, fire walking or do drugs... that's their business and the government should certainly not care.

Don't get me wrong, people should care when someone is doing something bad for themselves. And people DO care. That's why family, friends, churches, organizations, non-profits and the like are availalbe - to try to help people. But government mandated don't-do-this-to-yourself-because-I-say-so? Nah.

I think some of you think that if a certain government agency didn't exist, then those people would all be screwed. Realistically, more often than not, taxpayers are being screwed and a non-profit, church, family or friends would do a much better job.