Thought about creation

[dismayed]

What proof is there that the "universe is expanding?" Our eyes can only see so far, but if we look up into the cloudless sky we never see the end to that which we are looking at...do we? To say our universe is expanding, is that only because of the telescopes and planetary vehicles we have designed and placed in space to look further out into space then what our eyes can actually see on their own? In other words, the machinery is assisting us to bring into better view that which we already see but can't distinguish.

I don't know that our universe is expanding/growing...only our ability, with the assistance of some machinery, to reach further out ito it.

Without a doubt, our "knowledge" of our universe is expanding.

The expanding space theory is basic cosmology at this point... the expansion has been measured by astronomers across millions and millions of light years. It has been mathematically "proven." I won't go into the massive amount of technical details, but if you are curious you can read about it here:

Metric expansion of space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is also a follow-on theory known as the "big crunch" that states eventually the universe will stop expanding and be pulled back in on itself due to the effects of dark matter. Perhaps we'll end up back at that singularity point once again, only to explode in another big bang and start over.

Professor Dr. Stephen Hawking has written several books on the subject that are actually somewhat entertaining to read.

[possumfritter]

Thank you dismayed...I have it on my reading list for tomorrow.

[dismayed]

Einstein contended that E=mc2. Does is it not follow that M=e/c2? If energy can be neither created nor destroyed then it is reasonable to conclude that it has always been in existence.

I've been trying to respond to this for an hour, but my post became so unwieldy that I think it is best if I just summarize:

It's not that simple, and there's a lot of debate in the cosmological community about this. A big bang that starts the universe off so small and with such infinite mass that relativity completely breaks down, a possible big crunch that returns us to a pre-big bang state, dark energy and matter pushing and prodding us along, and an information paradox created by black holes which destroy/completely remove from our universe and seal off forever mass and/or energy paint a really weird picture that seems to contradict your basic hypothesis. Add to this the weirdest fact of all: all of the above paragraph has occurred or will occur in a space-time (if you can call it that) outside of our laws of physics and our known reality, therefore cannot be observed, and at least I can come up with some thoughts on why a creator seems necessary.

[possumfritter]

dismayed,

Well, I read through the link you provided, and all I can say is, if you understand all that...all the best to ya. It's wayyyyyyyyyyyy over my head.

I understood more of what "you" wrote in the original post of yours that I responded too than what I read on wikipedia.

For now, I'll just stick to reading Kahlil Gibran, growing my tomatoes, and looking through my son's telescope whenever I am in Pennsylvania.

BTW, what was the fella's name (might have been an Astronomer) that used to be on TV a good bit that began his program with something along the lines of "billions and billions of years ago...?"

[gmwise]

Carl Sagan

[possumfritter]

Thank ya gmwise

[trousers]

If matter is all that is, then it must be its own source of eternal self-sustaining and self-perpetuating power eternally backwards and forwards.

If matter is all that is, then by that definition alone it omnipresent, everywhere at once.

But that doesn't make it a deity.

[trousers]

dismayed,

Well, I read through the link you provided, and all I can say is, if you understand all that...all the best to ya. It's wayyyyyyyyyyyy over my head.

I understood more of what "you" wrote in the original post of yours that I responded too than what I read on wikipedia.

For now, I'll just stick to reading Kahlil Gibran, growing my tomatoes, and looking through my son's telescope whenever I am in Pennsylvania.

BTW, what was the fella's name (might have been an Astronomer) that used to be on TV a good bit that began his program with something along the lines of "billions and billions of years ago...?"

Discovery Science has an updated version of the show out. Same show just with updated graphics. Good stuff.

[silvergrove]

The Winner: Evolution in Two Minutes | DISCOVER Magazine

This site lists some good videos that explain evolution.

[metro]

The Winner: Evolution in Two Minutes | DISCOVER Magazine

This site lists some good videos that explain evolution.

This site talks about the #1 best selling book in recorded history, The Holy Bible. Explains creationism:

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.

[trousers]

This site talks about the #1 best selling book in recorded history, The Holy Bible. Explains creationism:

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.

Where's the explanation?

[metro]

Start in Genesis.

[USG '60]

Start in Genesis.

THAT ought to convince us alright.

[Uncle Slayton]

This site talks about the #1 best selling book in recorded history, The Holy Bible. Explains creationism:

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.

Just because I can get Grimm's Fairy Tales translated into 50 languages doesn't make them any less fictional.

"God said it, I believe it, that settles it" is not a logical position, and is a lousy argument.

[Luke]

Where did everything come from?

[skyrick]

Where did everything come from?

A magician in the clouds?

[Bunty]

Where did everything come from?

Maybe God in Heaven wonders the same thing.

[mugofbeer]

I think God created the foundation for everything, then let evolution take it's course. LOL

[skyrick]

I think God created the foundation for everything, then let evolution take it's course. LOL

Why does there have to be an anthropomorphic entity? What if Quantum Physics are god?

[ewoodard]

Mug, I actually agree with you on your observation. Why couldn't "God" have started everything and then let nature decide the best course?

Sky, why quantum physics, what if we find out that we are just one big experiment by "aliens", or some other advanced life form?

I am not trying to cause a rukus, just making observations, and trying to provoke thought. I do believe that God caused the big bang and evolution is his way of allowing life to continue on his creation to fit the conditions that we created as beings with self determination. If all he wanted was a bunch of followers then he would have created us in that mold. All of this is just my simple opinion.

[skyrick]

Mug, I actually agree with you on your observation. Why couldn't "God" have started everything and then let nature decide the best course?

Sky, why quantum physics, what if we find out that we are just one big experiment by "aliens", or some other advanced life form?

I am not trying to cause a rukus, just making observations, and trying to provoke thought. I do believe that God caused the big bang and evolution is his way of allowing life to continue on his creation to fit the conditions that we created as beings with self determination. If all he wanted was a bunch of followers then he would have created us in that mold. All of this is just my simple opinion.

I believe that all societies throughout history have created "God" and an accompanying religion to assuage the terror of mortality. With the possible exception of Scientology, which I hesitate to call a religion, all faiths assume an entire universe built just for we happy few, we Earth dwellers. Because we, as humans, build and construct things we assume that everything has an origin and an originator. It's widely recognized and accepted that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it simply changes states. It is easier for me to believe that, rather than having been created, the Universe simply is and always has been, in countless expansions and contractions. Come to think of it, that kind of describes God. So if you want to say that the entirety of the universe is God, I can subscribe to that idea. But don't try to convince me that the Universe is looking down on me hoping I behave; I'm not buying that.

If we were designed and built by God, any god, why did he locate our home in the outskirts of the unfashionable eastern spiral arm of a very minor galaxy?

Kidding around a little (just a little) with that last sentence for the Doug Adams fans.

[Luke]

But don't try to convince me that the Universe is looking down on me hoping I behave; I'm not buying that.

Heaven forbid we behave.

[skyrick]

Heaven forbid we behave.

The quote you used and your response are incongruous. I have nothing against behaving. I do it quite regularly, as a matter of fact. I don't behave because I'm being watched or threatened with eternal damnation though.

[Luke]

I have nothing against behaving. I do it quite regularly, as a matter of fact. I don't behave because I'm being watched or threatened with eternal damnation though.

Then you have a lot in common with most religious folks.

[Joe Daddy]

I think God created the foundation for everything, then let evolution take it's course. LOL

Who created God?