Canal Extension website debuts...

[CuatrodeMayo]

I saw a video on that Producer's Co-op on the Oklahoman website about a year ago when they expanded their operations a bit.

Those huge metal structures are seed silos... Just big open spaces where they pile the cotton seeds (and now other types of seeds as well) before they are crushed and turned into oil.

Because they are so big and open, it would be very interesting to see what the creative mind could come up with for adaptive use.

Looking at aerials, the appears to be about ten of these silos of varying size. keeping 2 or 3 of the large ones might be a cool exercise in design.

I strongly agree with Taurus and Pete both here. Let's take it a bit further and consider how this facility could actually be adapted into the new conference center. The large clean-span buildings are ideal for convention space. The new architecture that would be integrated with the existing buildings would look towards the future of the city as well as celebrating our past. This is a very unique opportunity.

[Patrick]

Hmmmm....a new convention center within the co-op buildings? Call it the Co-Op! Actually, that would be a pretty novel concept. I honestly don't think the current co-op buildings will be demolished. They have too much money wrapped up in that facility.

[Architect2010]

I'm sorry. But the only part of LB that isn't an embarassment to real urban character is the area around the Centennial Plaza. That's it. Way to pinpoint me out when everyone else is calling LB a flop and I'm just repeating them, and the one defending it and saying it can be fixed.

[onthestrip]

I say forget the canal expansion and put that money towards the downtown area public transportation, which IMO would have a far greater benefit for DT and BT than more canal

[Pete]

It looks like the largest of those silos is 350 x150 feet (the one in the upper right of the aerial I posted)... That's over 50,000 square feet in one big space.

Why not use some of them as part of a new convention complex?? They could be tied together with a modern glass base, similar to the Denver Airport:

[Platemaker]

Less kinks in the canal please! Straight lines! The California portion of the canal looks best between buildings aligned to a grid. Everyone knows it's man made... why make it wind like a river? Do that and we're REALLY trying to rip on San Antonio.

Plus I could bet it a lot cheaper, faster, and simpler to build.

[Platemaker]

I say forget the canal expansion and put that money towards the downtown area public transportation, which IMO would have a far greater benefit for DT and BT than more canal

Totally agree... first things first.

Could 'they' be thinking it would be easier to pass a new MAPs project if a canal is involved?

[kevinpate]

convention center
fair ground perks
new canal route or two (to bring in other's moneys)
new bus or three, but hey, they're cng!

nah, I'm just being a jerk .... yeah, that's it.

[okclee]

Canal expansion is not necessary.

Not until we see the existing canal used to it's full potential. No more empty spaces along the canal, no more parking lots along the canal, and no more grassy hills along the canal. There is so much wasted space along the canal as it is, we don't need a longer canal with more empty spaces.

It is nice to see the dream rendering of what the canal could be some day, but where is the hotel and shopping mall that was dreamed about long ago for our existing canal?

A longer canal is not a pressing need for this city. I will be voting NO for canal extension.

Also I will be voting NO for the "central park", not until I see a park nearly ten times the size of the proposed park idea.

Another NO vote for the convetion center, will depend on the location. I don't think it needs to be south of the Ford Cener away from downtown and away from bricktown.

I will vote YES for a new and improved transit system, that I will probably never ride on.

I think that the new MAPS has not been thought out very well at all, and it is being rushed to get on the ballot before the tax will expire.

[LakeEffect]

Regarding their website - I find their quotation of Jeff Speck interesting. Speck is much more qualitative in his support of a (slightly) extended canal. From his report:

Another solution being considered along this axis is the continuation of the Bricktown
canal system west from its current terminus to the Ford Center entrance. This exciting
concept is brilliant in theory, but must be carefully studied to make sure that its reality
can approach the power of its vision. We must remember that the successful parts of the
Canal are those where the waterway is lined by active buildings, not walls. For people to
choose to walk from the Ford Center into Bricktown along this canal, it must be flanked
at its grade by restaurants and housing that give supervision and life to its trajectory.
Given that half of the built canal currently lacks such edges, it is difficult to advocate for
building more of it. That said, an extended canal that reached the Ford Center, were it
properly shaped and lined, would be a tremendous addition to the city.

Specifically, his statement "Given that half of the built canal currently lacks such edges, it is difficult to advocate for building more of it" is extremely important. Why build more when we can't get private business to fill out the existing area? The quote of his they chose to use is about street connections to Bricktown, not the canal...

[Midtowner]

Hopefully a new canal would force property prices down in BT due to the sudden glut of canal-side real estate. That'd spur some real growth down there.

[Steve]

Cafe, then let's get to the heart of this matter: if there is no canal extension, and if Bricktown loses its interstate frontage, and if the convention center is built south of Ford Center (where the entrance will be a half-mile away from the bulk of Bricktown's restaurants), how is Bricktown not hurt by all this?

[metro]

The co-op is beautiful. It adds interest to the city, acknowledges the state's agriculture industry, and doesn't look like the rest of the city. The new boathouse row on the river, with its shiny metal buildings, echo the co-op's materials and shapes. I think there is almost no chance that anything that replaces the co-op will be as interesting or beautiful. More likely it will look like the schlock that is lower Bricktown. Does anyone agree with me? Can't anyone else appreciate that old industrial buildings have their own aesthetic beauty and interest?

I agree, but I'd like to see them repurposed for something the general public can use. I'd also like to see some infill in that general area as well, but I agree, it makes our City look less cookie-cutter and like Lower Bricktown.

Also, who is funding this canal extension website? Steve do you know? How come no pressing questions like you did with the MTP?

[Midtowner]

The website is registered through a proxy. All I can tell you is that it was registered on July 4th. Other than that, all of the owner's information is private.

[Steve]

Metro, it's the Bricktown Association. They revealed themselves on Thursday. Their board is chaired by Avis Scaramucci. The association's director is Jim Cowan. Both have been profiled extensively. Metro, your questions indicate you're not keeping up with what I write and report. Oh wait, you don't subscribe or buy the paper....

[metro]

Not true, you and I both know I read your articles and blog, and never said I don't buy the paper, I buy it frequently at the stand, and you know I read it online and Iphone. I just don't "subscribe" to getting it at my doorstep. No point of it in this digital age. I still didn't see you interrogate the Bricktown Association/aka Canal Extension proponents like you did the MTP. I see it no differently as they are both "public works" campaigns. Maybe you're not keeping up with your blog. I don't see anywhere you called Canal Extension board out near to the effect as you did MTP. Where are the hardball questions for them. What experience does Jim Cowan or Avis Scaramucci of all people have with canal planning or "public transit" (if you want to call those canal boats public transit)? If there wasn't a DIRECT BENEFIT to them and Bricktown, I can guarantee they wouldn't be doing this campaign.

[Steve]

Metro, I'm pretty much through answering you. I didn't grill MTP. I asked them to identify board members, to give a background on Jeff, its director, and questioned whether Mayor Mick Cornett was endorsing their group since they quoted him (I'll have a column out on MTP next week).
It's laughable to suggest I don't ask hard questions of the Bricktown Association.

[metro]

Steve, I'm not trying to piss you off but I'm just calling it as I see this one.

Either way, I see nowhere on your blog you calling out BA, Avis Scaramucci, and Jim Cowan out about this Canal Extension, their board, asking for their resumes, etc. Who does their board consist of besides Avis Scaramucci? So is the Canal Extension board the Bricktown Association Board? If so maybe we should ask them why as the proposed extension will affect other portions of downtown, but will directly benefit Bricktown the most.

In all fairness, Jeff Bezdek of MTP is just as well known as Avis and Jim AND he HAS a proven track record of urban planning.

[Platemaker]

In all fairness, Jeff Bezdek of MTP is just as well known as Avis and Jim AND he HAS a proven track record of urban planning.

Good point.

[Midtowner]

An entity called the "Bricktown Association," a Domestic not for profit corporation has been in existence since its certificate was filed on 6-22-1990.

[metro]

What are you saying Mid?

[Midtowner]

Not much other than that I looked 'em up on the Secretary of State's website. If it's the same group, they've been in existence for nearly 20 years, which I think is significant. The Association is mentioned frequently in Oklahoman articles. They seem to be the goto mouthpiece for all things Bricktown.

Now, as to what sort of clout such a group would have in being able to propose a canal extension which couldn't be accomplished without significant public subsidy is something I can't speak to. They do seem to be a pretty significant player in the area though. I'd take this thing seriously.

[metro]

Yes, but many of the "players" in Bricktown have changed, even the face of Bricktown has changed (some not for the good, we still have plenty of vacant properties since canal opening). So what does that say about such a long-term organization, that has a 10 year old vacant canal front, some of it in which the dirt piles haven't even moved in the entire 10 years? Jeff Bezdek was questioned far more, has a background in urban planning, and he has been in the game for a while and developed significant projects across the state, including Centennial Plaza in Bricktown, the Kerr McGee Bell Tower on the River. Does that not too speak for itself? He was interrogated far more than the Bricktown Association was, no question.

[Patrick]

If he's going to be deciding where $1billion of our money goes, I'm not opposed to the interrogation. The Bricktown Association doesn't directly decide where tax dollars go.

[metro]

Neither does MTP, that is my point. Try and look at the parallells between MTP and Canal Extension Patrick. They are both private movements for public works enhancements, one got interrogated far more than the other and I was simply asking why the difference. They were both meant to get the dialogue going on their respective subjects, not decide where $1 billion goes.