Oklahoma River Water Causes Illnesses

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

Spring Creek, a tributary of the Illinois, is one of the cleanest streams in the US.

Just curious, but where have you heard this? I would be cautious to make this assumption given the mixed land-use in the Illinois River Basin, but I've not seen specific data on the Spring Creek trib to make any conclusions from. And again, I swam in it at a popular watering hole several summers ago (and did not get sick, and I feel fortunate). Maybe I met you and we don't even know it...

[soonerguru]

JerzeeGirl,

The report was from ODEQ, from their water sample in the last year. It was one of two streams that rated very high from their sample.

[soonerguru]

There's also an active group of landowners who are working to keep it pure. Other Ozark streams have been compromised by chicken poop and runoff from the plant farms.

[JerzeeGrlinOKC]

JerzeeGirl,

The report was from ODEQ, from their water sample in the last year. It was one of two streams that rated very high from their sample.

Interesting. I tried to look online for the data but am having trouble, do you have a link? I did find the following newsok article:

http://newsok.com/five-bodies-of-wat...rticle/3254446

The article says that the stream is regulated and that helps with storm runoff issues, and that as you said a landowner group is helping enact pollution reducing management practices in the basin. I'm trying to find more info though. Some questions one might ask:

1.) How is the dam regulated? At what flow is the spillway/release designed for? An extreme event may cause runoff to reach the creek where people swim (although I hope folks would have enough sense not to swim just after a major flood event, for both drowning and contamination risks) - extreme flow can bring a high bacterial loading, even from "natural" sources. I'm not sure on the basin size, so maybe this isn't even an issue - just a question I have at this time not knowing much about that particular tributary.

2.) When and where was the sampling done? One issue that comes to mind is bacterial pollution from swimmers themselves. When I went to the creek it was very crowded and there were many small children there. I'm not sure how often the swimming hole is occupied, I was taken there by someone else just once, so I could be mistaken (heck, we might not even be talking about the same stream here, just assuming we are). But anyhow, if this is true, was the sampling done downstream from the watering hole or downstream from known pasture areas, during the summer months? Just something to consider.

3.) Similar to question 1 above, was the sampling done during both high and low flow conditions? Bacterial contamination, as is loading from many constituents, can vary greatly with streamflow (and I'm also assuming that the clean status also has to do with bacterial concentrations from the samples). Again though one assumes that most swimming is done at low flow and so low flow sampling should be pretty representative.

Regardless, its good to hear that in general there is a low probably of bacterial contamination under the sampling conditions in which ODEQ made their assessment. Still not convinced at this time that it is the "cleanest stream in the US" - but again, that's a very hard goal to achieve. As someone who deals with these issues regularly, I'm looking for that water quality data and trying to answer some of the questions above. Anyhow, sounds like if you're going to pick a stream to swim in, according to ODEQ, Spring Creek is probably a good bet compared to other streams. There is always a risk though...

If you can find an online link to the sampling report, could you post a link, that would be really cool. Unfortunately my search on the ODEQ website for this particular site is not resulting in much luck (and Spring Creek is the name of several unrelated bodies of water too which makes things confusing). I realize that this is sort of off topic, so feel free to send me a PM too.

But to tie this back to the original topic - I still stand behind this - there is always a risk of bacterial illness from contact with natural waters even if the sampling data, taken under certain conditions where certain assumptions are made, reveals otherwise. The level of risk is always the question. But no surprises about the sickened athletes, and no blame for the source until more questions are answered (and even if the questions are answered, there may not be much we can do about it...)

[gmwise]

Interesting. I tried to look online for the data but am having trouble, do you have a link? I did find the following newsok article:

http://newsok.com/five-bodies-of-wat...rticle/3254446

The article says that the stream is regulated and that helps with storm runoff issues, and that as you said a landowner group is helping enact pollution reducing management practices in the basin. I'm trying to find more info though. Some questions one might ask:

1.) How is the dam regulated? At what flow is the spillway/release designed for? An extreme event may cause runoff to reach the creek where people swim (although I hope folks would have enough sense not to swim just after a major flood event, for both drowning and contamination risks) - extreme flow can bring a high bacterial loading, even from "natural" sources. I'm not sure on the basin size, so maybe this isn't even an issue - just a question I have at this time not knowing much about that particular tributary.

2.) When and where was the sampling done? One issue that comes to mind is bacterial pollution from swimmers themselves. When I went to the creek it was very crowded and there were many small children there. I'm not sure how often the swimming hole is occupied, I was taken there by someone else just once, so I could be mistaken (heck, we might not even be talking about the same stream here, just assuming we are). But anyhow, if this is true, was the sampling done downstream from the watering hole or downstream from known pasture areas, during the summer months? Just something to consider.

3.) Similar to question 1 above, was the sampling done during both high and low flow conditions? Bacterial contamination, as is loading from many constituents, can vary greatly with streamflow (and I'm also assuming that the clean status also has to do with bacterial concentrations from the samples). Again though one assumes that most swimming is done at low flow and so low flow sampling should be pretty representative.

Regardless, its good to hear that in general there is a low probably of bacterial contamination under the sampling conditions in which ODEQ made their assessment. Still not convinced at this time that it is the "cleanest stream in the US" - but again, that's a very hard goal to achieve. As someone who deals with these issues regularly, I'm looking for that water quality data and trying to answer some of the questions above. Anyhow, sounds like if you're going to pick a stream to swim in, according to ODEQ, Spring Creek is probably a good bet compared to other streams. There is always a risk though...

If you can find an online link to the sampling report, could you post a link, that would be really cool. Unfortunately my search on the ODEQ website for this particular site is not resulting in much luck (and Spring Creek is the name of several unrelated bodies of water too which makes things confusing). I realize that this is sort of off topic, so feel free to send me a PM too.

But to tie this back to the original topic - I still stand behind this - there is always a risk of bacterial illness from contact with natural waters even if the sampling data, taken under certain conditions where certain assumptions are made, reveals otherwise. The level of risk is always the question. But no surprises about the sickened athletes, and no blame for the source until more questions are answered (and even if the questions are answered, there may not be much we can do about it...)

awesome set of questions!! go for it i wanna know too

[urbanity]

Agencies differ on what contaminated Oklahoma River and which entities had responsibilities to monitor runoff:
Agencies differ on what contaminated the Oklahoma River | OKG Scene.com

[soonerguru]

JerzeeGirl,

I have no idea.

It's a nice stream. It's a tributary to the Illinois. It's in Cherokee County. There is no dam on the stream.

[Pete]

I’m having a hard reconciling both these points, as they have been made repeatedly in the press:

Before the race, officials from the state Water Resources Board and the City of Oklahoma City reported that there was little risk of swimming in the river. And levels before the race were reportedly decreasing.

And

Oklahoma City officials have said the levels of bacterial contamination were at 573 per 100 milliliters of water. A “safe” level for the river is a 126 count for E. coli, according to OWRB officials.

More contradiction:

Stool specimens were requested from the ill competitors and showed several gastrointestinal agents, including norovirus “and a couple of different kinds of bacteria and parasites, all of which are compatible with this gastrointestinal outbreak and which could be associated with exposure to water contaminated with human or animal waste,” according to a OSDH statement.

“Really, it’s the ingestion of the water that put these people at risk,” said Lauri Smithee, OSDH chief of acute disease division.

Then

Bret Sholar, race director for the Boathouse International Triathlon, said he would have never put people in the water if he didn’t think it was OK. He said, based on all the information he had at that time, he believed it would be safe for the athletes.

“We care deeply about the athletes and want them to be successful,” said Sholar. “We always want people to be safe.”

He said the OSDH report was “inconclusive,” and there were lots of different factors that could have been a cause, including the water.

Sholar said some race volunteers who were never in the water also became ill, so he feels like it still could have come from other sources.

He said one thing that wasn’t considered was that some of the symptoms — like vomiting — could be caused by dehydration, and the triathlon was the first really warm event of the year.

“You push your body to a certain limit, it’s going to kick back at you,” Sholar said.

He said the athletes know the risk factors of swimming in public bodies of water, much as the risk of riding their bicycles on public roads.

Also, this repeated line that “athletes know the risk factors” is implying that people get sick from the water in these races all the time. Yet, I’m not aware of anything like this ever happening and I’ve never seen another example cited.

As a triathlete, you rely on the race officials to not let you race if conditions are unsafe. That’s their job and as I’ve stated, I’ve done two races where they cancelled the swim, once at the very last minute.

And the idea the the heat and strain of the race caused a significant number of the illnesses is preposterous. In a race this size and distance, this may happen to a few people not a quarter of the participants.


I hope they determine the source of the bacteria, get the problem corrected and go forward with this race in the future. But changes need to be made and because I put my name out there with my opinions, I won’t say anything stronger at this point.

[soonerguru]

He said the OSDH report was “inconclusive,” and there were lots of different factors that could have been a cause, including the water.

You know the rules of modern PR: obfuscate, deny, distract. Rinse and repeat. They're clearly making this up as they go, hoping the press will die down.

[proud2Bsooner]

This week we rowed from the boathouse on Exchange Ave., and upstream just West of Agnew the smell from (presumably) The Stockyards was atrocious...really bad, and almost unbearable.Although... on second thought I am not certain that the smell was from the stockyards.

I never realized this, but there is a large topsoil operation right next to the river, within 50 yards or so. This could have actually been where the smell came from. If I were guessing, I would say that this operation takes the waste from stockyards and turns it into topsoil.

There are large piles of this topsoil within 50 yards of the river, and by viewing MSN's flyover map of the area it looks like drainage actually goes laterally East and/or West into drainage ditches that appear to empty into the river.

This was quite astonishing to me that such an operation would be so close to the river.

My previous theory of geese may be only a part of the problem. I now suspect that a large part of this problem is the topsoil operation.

I would post pictures of the area (from the flyover map on MSN), but I'll allow the rest of you to do that on your own.

Something needs to be done about this. It at least needs to be reviewed by DEQ and the City's stormwater cleanliness/control dept.

[Pete]

There is a wakeboarding event in the river coming up on June 26th.

Not the same as swimming but still people are down in the water, have it flying in their faces, etc.

There are more and more events planned for in and around that river, all the more reason to find out the source of the problem and come up with some solutions.

[soonerguru]

You could be right about that topsoil operation. If they're using animal excrement (yuk), it's obviously draining right into the main channel of the river.

[Midtowner]

Agencies differ on what contaminated Oklahoma River and which entities had responsibilities to monitor runoff:
Agencies differ on what contaminated the Oklahoma River | OKG Scene.com

Shocking. SHOCKING that everyone thinks this was the fault of someone else (or says so anyhow).

[OUSoonerfan3]

Something needs to be done about this. It at least needs to be reviewed by DEQ and the City's stormwater cleanliness/control dept.

I'm not sure how that would work, as the Stockyards and surrounding area are not part of Oklahoma City. It is an unincorporated area. I can see DEQ involved, but not OKC.

[nik4411]

Occasionally my cousin and I go swimming/wading in the Canadian here in Norman, near the I-35 bridge...is this water ok?