Self defense - Racist style

[Midtowner]

One less useless thug on the street... sorry my opinion..

Your opinion is based on what?

One act?

If I were to pick out the single worst thing you've ever done in your life and make a conclusion about your character based upon only that act, what would my conclusion be?

[PennyQuilts]

Your opinion is based on what?

One act?

If I were to pick out the single worst thing you've ever done in your life and make a conclusion about your character based upon only that act, what would my conclusion be?

Save it, Mid. What this robber did was so far outside what the rest of us do that you can't make a good comparison. And it trivializes what amounts to a complete rejection of our societal norms and a willingness to risk killing for greed. We aren't talking about someone who broke up with his long-term girlfriend via texting or even someone who stole money from the collection plate. He took a gun into someone's place of business to rob it. As a culture, we ought to stand together and call someone on this. There is no excuse for it and there is no healthy reason to hem and haw and try to pretend what this guy did was what any of us could/would have done under certain circumstances. This guy was a thug or he wouldn't have done it. He was willing to hurt people who hadn't done anything to deserve it. Thank god he didn't kill anyone. He created a situation that went bad on him. No one held a gun to his head and made him go into that business and, at the least, terrorize those people.

[Midtowner]

No doubt that what he did was characteristic of a 'useless thug' as you say. You just don't know. Maybe he was pressured into this? Maybe he was under some sort of duress? Maybe he was under the influence of some sort of drug? You just don't know.

For those of us talking about how "as a culture" we have to stand for certain norms and values, if you have ever supported things such as 'enhanced interrogation methods,' then you, just as the robber here, have what they call 'situational ethics.'

My point is, given the right circumstances, we can all justify some pretty bad stuff. Take a kid the bad part of town where his influences are gangs, drugs and violence, consider the fact that he doesn't have a fully developed frontal cortex (that's the part of the brain which gives us inhibition) and maybe, assuming the right facts (I get to assume facts too, right?) his actions weren't so bad.

[PennyQuilts]

No doubt that what he did was characteristic of a 'useless thug' as you say. You just don't know. Maybe he was pressured into this? Maybe he was under some sort of duress? Maybe he was under the influence of some sort of drug? You just don't know.

For those of us talking about how "as a culture" we have to stand for certain norms and values, if you have ever supported things such as 'enhanced interrogation methods,' then you, just as the robber here, have what they call 'situational ethics.'

My point is, given the right circumstances, we can all justify some pretty bad stuff. Take a kid the bad part of town where his influences are gangs, drugs and violence, consider the fact that he doesn't have a fully developed frontal cortex (that's the part of the brain which gives us inhibition) and maybe, assuming the right facts (I get to assume facts too, right?) his actions weren't so bad.

Not buying it Mid and you wouldn't want your only daughter dating that thug, either, regardless of how he got how he got. He crossed a bright line. Doesn't really matter why and the fact that he might have been involved with drugs or gangs is absolutely no excuse. And this isn't about inhanced interrogation methods. This is not about Navy Seals. This is not about anything like that. We ALL know that it is WRONG to rob a pharmacy. It is not complicated and it is not something that a kid from the wrong side of the track is confused about. He brought a gun in and menaced those people. Short of being mentally ill to the point that he didn't know what he was doing, what he was doing was incurring the risk that someone would shoot back. This is not rocket science, it isn't complicated, and over thinking it is just going to encourage that sort of behavior that, btw, cost him his life. He paid the ultimate price for his foolishness and making excuses for his behavior only enables others to make the same sorry decisions. Only a pure innocent might be the one killed the next time. It happens every day.

[Midtowner]

How does something I say on an internet message board enable anything? That's completely absurd. He did one bad thing, he robbed a store. I get it, that's really bad and really dumb.

I think the enhanced interrogations method is right on-point here. Most of us say that torture is always bad. It's outside of what we would excuse in society, we don't think anyone should get away with it ever -- or at least that's what most of us thought until 9/11... now... situational ethics.

I don't know what kind of a person this kid was except the obvious -- young, foolish, thought he was invincible, thought he was Rambo.

And talking about my daughter in the hypothetical and who I'd want her to date isn't fair. I have yet to even have a daughter, so I have yet to consider whether I'd ever allow her to date anyhow.

[USG '60]

Mid, I did a few things as a kid that were not all that terrible but were the kinds of things that people got shot for every now and then. I KNEW I was taking that risk. Had someone shot my little butt it would have been MY fault. And parents would NEVER have blamed the shooter. In anguish they might would say things like "If only you had fired a warning shot" or some such but to think he should be prosecuted would never have crossed their minds. They knew that I knew that that some people are skitish and that some guns have hair triggers. Even if we found out after the fact that the kid was a genius and was going to Harvard on a full scholarship and that he had won all kinds of Citizenship Awards, he KNEW the risk that he and/or others could die, be parallized for life, etc, so his death was a result of natural consequences, the best teacher of all. May his friends learn from his mistake.

[Midtowner]

Maybe he was a thug. Maybe he was a worthless human being with no hope of anything but going to prison.

I don't know, you don't know.

All I know is what I read in the papers.

[USG '60]

[QUOTE=Midtowner;228563]I don't know, you don't know. QUOTE]


True. And it doesn't matter which he was, because HE made a bad decission.

[drum4no1]

Well im under alot of pressure right now, am I out robbing and shooting ? No

The whole society failed him, and he saw no other way dosent fly with me.

I feel some sympathy for the kid that he had to lose his life at a young age. But the fact remains he decided to play by different rules and lost

Plenty of kids in his shoes decide that they are better than than the homies and gangsters of the neighborhood and have a good life.

[kevinpate]

There was a brief blip on TV 9 10 pm news about an announcement (I think sometime this morning) by Prater's office regarding whether or not any charges might be pressed on the employee's actions.

If there are, then there are, and versa vica as well.

[FFLady]

Well, looks like another one bites the dust.
Sheesh!

http://newsok.com/intruder-shot-dead...ead_localstate

[HSC-Sooner]

And he's charged with 1st degree murder. I guess the DA found something they didn't like...

[FFLady]

If this is him ---> Offender Lookup - Detail

the age matches......??

[FritterGirl]

If this is him ---> Offender Lookup - Detail

the age matches......??

I think stories are getting crossed here. Robert Penn was the perp allegedly involved in the home invasion.

There is also breaking news from the original pharmacy robbery. The pharmacist, Jerome Ersland, is now being charged with first-degree murder. HSC-Sooner was referring to this story in his post (I think).

[gmwise]

David Prater is officially the Oklahoma County District Attorney.
David Prater is often refer to as the DA, from the pharmacy attempted robbery case I know I will refer to him from this day forward as Dumb ASS.
David Prater should be removed the next election.
Its apparent he has a political motive for this filing.
Not justice! Nor the Law!!

[HSC-Sooner]

FritterGirl has it right, sorry for the confusion.

[OKCMallen]

David Prater is officially the Oklahoma County District Attorney.
David Prater is often refer to as the DA, from the pharmacy attempted robbery case I know I will refer to him from this day forward as Dumb ASS.
David Prater should be removed the next election.
Its apparent he has a political motive for this filing.
Not justice! Nor the Law!!

Well, that is the natural initial reaction, but the pharm's account of what happened may not be entirely accurate.

[MadMonk]

I'd have shot the guy again too. No sense giving him a second chance at ya. Don't think I'd have emptied the gun though, but adrenaline can make you a little trigger happy.

[OKCMallen]

I'd have shot the guy again too. No sense giving him a second chance at ya. Don't think I'd have emptied the gun though, but adrenaline can make you a little trigger happy.

Here's what happened according to the affidavit:

1. Pharm shoots (and hits in the head) unarmed perp after perp's partner has pointed weapons at the pharm and employees.

2. Pharm continues to shoot at armed perp after unarmed perp fell down and stayed down.

3. Pharm chased armed perp out of store, passing by unarmed perp.

4. After chasing armed perp to no avail, pharm comes back into store, where unarmed perp is still on the ground.

5. Pharm walks past unarmed perp without incident or apparent fear.

6. Pharm gets the other gun, calmly walks over to fallen perp, and delivers a cylinder full of bullets into his stomach, which kills unarmed perp.


Now given THOSE facts, I think I understand the filing of charges.

What does everyone else think, given those came from a policeman's sworn affidavit after review of the video evidence has been filed stating those facts?

[Karried]

Wow, that's crazy. First Degree Murder.. ouch.

I knew that pharmacist should have kept his mouth shut with the media.

I wonder if they will take into account the fact that he was being robbed and the other guy had a gun? He probably assumed the guy lying on the floor had one too.

[OKCMallen]

Wow, that's crazy. First Degree Murder.. ouch.

I knew that pharmacist should have kept his mouth shut with the media.

I wonder if they will take into account the fact that he was being robbed and the other guy had a gun? He probably assumed the guy lying on the floor had one too.

It's not that he was unarmed when he shot him the first time. That's probably jsut fine. The fact that he wasn't scared and the guy didn't pose a threat and he calmly walked over to him to finish the job is the problem. If he was scared for his life, he could have not come back in the store. It's apparently demonstrable that he shot the guy without fearing for his life, which is a necessary component of the self-defense defense.

[FFLady]

Wow - I hadn't heard that part...the Pharm wasn't too quick in putting that part in his story (to the media).....

Raise your hand if you'd like to be called for jury duty on this one!

[drum4no1]

No big surprise that the true facts come out and show a different story altogether. At first I assumed the kid that was killed was firing at the pharmacist. I guess he was unarmed.

I still feel the pharmacist was justified in returning fire and if the unarmed kid got caught in it well thats just the way it goes. However if he did walk past him after shooting him in the head only to return to empty his gun. Well that was over the line.

In his interview he did seem to have a "cowboy" attitude.

We cant play the "well I would of done this" routine. You dont know how you would react until it happens to you.

Well I read the affadavit. Cant say I disagree with charges. I have no problem with the initial shot, its what follows I dont agree with.

[Thunder]

I want the kids' family to be reading this. I want the DA to be reading this. All of the posts on this topic.

1. I will not vote for that DA ever again. Wes Lane was bad, David Prater was given a chance and HE BLEW IT.

2. Those kids deserve to be shot at, armed or not, they were violent and attempted to rob.

3. I'd love to be on the Jury and find the man NOT GUILTY.

4. I'm amazed at how the DA create their own version of what happened.

5. GMWISE is correct on the term >> D...A...

.....

Was there cameras in the store?

[Thunder]

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-phar...=breaking_news

Everyone should vote NO on the poll.

http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1656432/?view=results