Bricktown losing momentum

[Doug Loudenback]

Luke, your point seems to be, "Why hasn't Bricktown done more," which is a fair and different question. My complaint was the assumption in the title Patrick chose for this thread. Relatively speaking (i.e., compared to the whole city's economy), I seriously doubt that Bricktown is any worse off, relatively speaking, than any other part of the city ... in fact, it may well be better off than the rest.

[Pete]

It's interesting what you said about the Farmer's Markets in California. I have yet to see anything as good as what California does in Oklahoma. And I don't understand why that is given all the agriculture in Oklahoma. Sure we have a Farmer's Market off of I-40, but come on it is nothing like some of the stuff I've seen in LA. Why is that?

Wanted to address this point...

Agriculture in Oklahoma is big but it's mainly things that don't lend themselves to a consumer market: Wheat, hay, soybeans, cotton, sorghum, etc. Even the ubiquitous peanuts and pecans are generally not sold to consumers directly from the field.

California is primarily veggies & fruits: Oranges, lemons, limes, avocados, tomatoes, grapes, strawberries, all types of lettuce and peppers, etc. Not nearly as much emphasis on grains.

So, from just about anywhere in California you have almost the entire contents of a produce section growing in fields only an hour or two away.

[Urbanized]

Actually, Humphreys used to be a part owner of the Bricktown Parking garage...

I forgot to address this one yesterday, or whenever it was that I was posting in this thread. Kirk Humphreys was an investor in the parking garage, until he decided to run for Mayor. He sold his interest when he announced. This was BEFORE the ballpark was completed, before ground had been broken on either the canal or the Ford Center, and in fact before any major downtown MAPS projects were online.

So I still think the assertion that "...the first wave of owners -- including two former mayors -- had a massive infusion of publicly financed largesse drop in their laps..." is substantially incorrect.

[Urbanized]

And just to reiterate, there have been a lot of comments made in this thread indicating a perception that nothing is currently being done to change and improve things. This couldn't be further from the truth.

I think Steve, who has covered Bricktown since the mid-nineties, (and who has taken many, many EXTREMELY critical looks at the district), will back me up when I say that the Bricktown Association right now is the most organized, cooperative, influential and credible it has ever been. It is more than likely still not obvious to outsiders, since it has taken the past two years of incredibly hard work by Jim Cowan for the group to reach this point.

But I cannot stress to you how much is being done behind the scenes right now to effect change in the areas that are being discussed here; master planning, canal utilization, canal maintenance, district-wide retail recruitment, district appearance, land usage recommendations, and communications/marketing. The groundwork has been laid for Bricktown to have some breakout moments that will perhaps put the past 10 years to shame. I don't think that is an exaggeration.

The simple fact that a Bricktown Association director was invited to attend this week's International Council of Shopping Centers convention in Las Vegas, as part of a travelling party that included the Mayor, the directors of the Chamber, the Convention and Visitors Bureau, and Downtown Oklahoma City Incorporated, plus the Chamber's point person for retail development and others, AND TREATED AS A PEER, should speak volumes to anyone who has followed downtown closely over the past decade (or two).

Those who are uninformed probably think I'm just whistling past the graveyard. But those of you who think this simply haven't seen what I have, up close, over the past 10+ years.

[Steve]

"I think Steve, who has covered Bricktown since the mid-nineties, (and who has taken many, many critical looks at the district), will back me up when I say that the Bricktown Association right now is the most organized, cooperative, influential and credible it has ever been. It is more than likely still not obvious to outsiders, since it has taken the past two years of incredibly hard work by Jim Cowan for the group to reach this point."

Yep. But there's still plenty of opportunities for me to pick on him and the association. I'd be bored if they ended up being perfect.

[Urbanized]

Hey, that's completely fair. There's still plenty of work to be done. Keep picking, where it is appropriate to do so.

But thanks for backing me up that the association is more credible and active than it's ever been, and is in fact focusing, perhaps for the first time ever, on all of the issues I mentioned.

[Steve]

Any chance you can have the boat drivers talk about Hard Rock Cafe coming again? I haven't had much of an opportunity to pick on you in years.

[Urbanized]

Nope. Now they talk about the new hotel going up on the grassy corner.

[bluedogok]

Nope. Now they talk about the new hotel going up on the grassy corner.

I worked on a scheme for that at one time.....but then so have a lot of people.

[dalelakin]

That would be an interesting place to be in a baseball sized hail storm...

[CuatrodeMayo]

I would be in favor of a separate thread which does not have such a pessimistic title when discussing Bricktown's successes and our hopes for its future. Bricktown is doing fine and will continue to do so particularly as the economy improves. Other than saying this, I have nothing else to say in a thread which declares, "Bricktown losing momentum," and presumes to know that that is so.

As the title is listed, this thread is for the pessimists. I am not one of them.

Add a "?" to the end of the thread title...problem solved.

[dismayed]

Wanted to address this point...

Agriculture in Oklahoma is big but it's mainly things that don't lend themselves to a consumer market: Wheat, hay, soybeans, cotton, sorghum, etc. Even the ubiquitous peanuts and pecans are generally not sold to consumers directly from the field.

California is primarily veggies & fruits: Oranges, lemons, limes, avocados, tomatoes, grapes, strawberries, all types of lettuce and peppers, etc. Not nearly as much emphasis on grains.

So, from just about anywhere in California you have almost the entire contents of a produce section growing in fields only an hour or two away.

Thanks, those are very good points. It made me think about something though... Oklahoma has some very well known off-the-beaten-path stops all around the metro... places that sell fresh pecans, others that sell freshly made cheese... I'm kind of surprised some of those folks haven't tried to band together and start a farmer's market somewhere in the metro that caters to what they all provide.

[MikeOKC]

That would be an interesting place to be in a baseball sized hail storm...

My guess is that it's not anything that hail could break. Disney doesn't do anything halfway and certainly don't design dangerous public spaces.