Bricktown losing momentum

[gen70]

Whatever is wrong with Bricktown would anyone like to see it like it was 25 years ago?

[kevinpate]

doubtful, though the aspects complained of haven't seen much improvement, if any, in that timeframe.

Of course, a lot of the dead just laying there space on the canal was underground 25 years ago. Hmm, that made it less of an eyesore though.

tough call all in all.

[ssandedoc]

I think the answer to the Bricktown woes is MAPS 3, without it we will drift without direction and momentum. We can talk all day about Core to Shore, but without the penny sales tax the dream won't be realized.

City leaders have trusted its citizens to do the right thing and vote yes on its initiatives from MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and the Ford Center renovation. Give us the chance to vote YES on MAPS 3! Don't wait until 2012, let's get a plan together and vote yes by 2010.

[kevinpate]

Haven't been paying much attention. Dinna realize BT upgrades are a part of Maps 3

[fourthworldtraffic]

Amusment park or neighborhood. It's simple.

[metro]

You will be voting on a MAPS 3 in December of this year, 2009. Not in 2010 or 2012. And to clarify, the only things we KNOW will be in MAPS 3 are Convention Center, Central Park, and some form of transit, Mick mentioned there were several other items of consideration. I guaranteeeeee you that the State Fair Park folks are lobbying hard to get their $79 convention hall in there as well.

[Mr. T in OKC]

$79 convention hall in there as well.

Well, we should be able to spring for that. LOL. Just kidding. I know what you meant

[okcpulse]

Well, we should be able to spring for that. LOL. Just kidding. I know what you meant

Hey, with donated materials and volunteers, I'm sure that can be arranged. $79 will pay for the Coming Soon sign.

[Thunder]

I guaranteeeeee you that the State Fair Park folks are lobbying hard to get their $79 convention hall in there as well.

Can't they use their own $79 for a convention hall? I didn't realize the economy dropped prices of materials that low!



I bet the Devon Tower will only be a few hundreds!

[metro]

Oops, as you can guess, I meant $79 million.

[Urbanized]

A couple of quick notes on the canal, as someone who is down here every day:

The City of Oklahoma City Parks and Recreation Department is currently working on the most comprehensive tune-up of the canal area there has been in the past decade. For about the past two weeks contractors have been working diligently on a number of items, including a virtual reconstruction of the water feature (pool) next to the Water Taxi loading area (replacing cracked concrete walls), reconstruction/replacement of some of the paver-based sidewalks, with new edging designed to keep the pavers from coming loose, and fresh paint for most of the metal structures associated with the north canal (elevator enclosures, chair lifts, railings, bollards).

What you cannot see is that the City also put quite a bit of money and effort into lots of new electrical service along the north canal in anticipation of much larger/more sophisticated lighting displays for the holidays and other times in the future. The Bricktown Association is currently working on funding solutions for these endeavors.

Regarding the aforementioned "stumps," they are very recent casualties of the windstorm we had about a week ago. While Parks would probably admit that they let the paver/paint situation go a little longer than anyone would like, if there is one thing Parks is very conscientious about, it is the removal/replacement of damaged trees. I have seen it done dozens of times over the past decade. I have no doubt that these recent losses will be replaced soon.

Additionally, property owners downtown wide are currently working on the next business improvement district (BID) funding vehicle, and I can tell you firsthand that it has ignited a tremendous amount of healthy discussion regarding the canal and its maintenance. Expect to see a real focus on beautification and development of the canal in coming months and years.

[Urbanized]

Secondly, as one of the few retailers in Bricktown, and the ONLY Bricktown retailer on the canal, I'd like to address the remarks about "greedy property owners." First, let me say that I am NOT a property owner; the businesses I operate of course RENT from a property owner. Also, let me preface this by saying that there is nothing that would make our businesses thrive more than a throng of other retailers down here. I desperately want to see it happen, and believe it will with some of the various movements afoot including studies, Chamber intitiatives, and Bricktown Association efforts.

Speaking as someone who knows most of them, the characterization of Bricktown property owners as some sort of faceless, evil, greedy group is dead wrong. Perhaps there was a time when overt avarice played a role in keeping good projects out of Bricktown, but those days are long gone. I think it is a simplistic stereotype that misses the mark.

In my opinion the biggest fault has been, perhaps, a lack of imagination, or an unwillingness to take risk (a surprising attribute for people who might otherwise be considered mavericks). I think this has been combined with one characteristic most of them share: unbridled optimism for the district, even in the face of some discouraging results. The only problem with this is that it maybe causes them to hold onto dreams of "the big one," when perhaps they should be focusing on realistic results.

Are some of them unsure how to proceed? Perhaps.

What I mean is that (most) property owners have been unwilling to develop their buildings themselves (perhaps lacking a vision for what it should be), and want to wait (and wait, and wait...) for a good project to drive the renovation. I think most of the ones that have been in it for years are as surprised as you or me that the "right projects" haven't landed at their feet. What is the "right project?" Well, in their minds it is probably one anchor tenant for their building that will either drive development of the rest, or even develop the entire floorplate itself. The problem is that in Bricktown and especially along the canal, 6,000 or 10,000 square foot tenants have typically meant large restaurants, clubs, or offices. Which is exactly what we ended up with, organically.

I think that most in Bricktown now believe we have neared a saturation to some extent in most of those areas, and I hope and believe that will drive some change.

The problem with luring retail has been not greed, in my opinion, but an unwillingness to subdivide on spec and offer smaller spaces. The canal probably doesn't lend itself to Crate and Barrel or Urban Outfitters, but a dozen or so shops like my own Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (sorry, that's not meant to be self-serving) or the Painted Door Gallery, closely clustered, would thrive I think. I expect that day will come.

Anyway, the problem is a complex one, and can't be boiled down to "greed." I think it is unfair and inaccurate to paint all Bricktown Property owners with a "greedy" brush. Be patient and wait for a few of the initiatives now being pushed by the Bricktown Association play out. I also believe some of the results from the forthcoming Bricktown land use and downtown retail studies will be particularly helpful, creating a sort of master plan for the district, for the first time ever. Stay tuned.

[ssandedoc]

I'm glad to hear that we will vote on MAPS 3 by the end of this year. That's great news!

[Steve]

Metro says it's going to happen that way. But he has no special information backing that up - it's speculation and I'm hearing conflicting reports.

[dismayed]

The problem with luring retail has been not greed, in my opinion, but an unwillingness to subdivide on spec and offer smaller spaces. The canal probably doesn't lend itself to Crate and Barrel or Urban Outfitters, but a dozen or so shops like my own Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (sorry, that's not meant to be self-serving) or the Painted Door Gallery, closely clustered, would thrive I think. I expect that day will come.

Yes, agree whole-heartedly 100%. The costs are too high with the massive spaces that are in Bricktown. It would be much more likely that a business could survive if the property owners would just sub-divide their spaces! Make smaller spaces!

[Chase]

The Grove in LA is a really nice center.

[soonerguru]

Urbanized,

First of all: Great post! You are perhaps right that "greed" is an oversimplification. That said, I think there have been clear examples of that in the past.

I believe what people are upset about is the ridiculously high rents that have been speculated up by a handful of property owners. The first wave of owners -- including two former mayors -- had a massive infusion of publicly financed largesse drop in their laps. But they have done precious little to make the area happen.

The development concepts have been amateurish, but not in the "organic" sense someone may find on, say, Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley or Guadalupe in Austin.

Bad ideas, over and over again, and thousands of square feet of "For Lease" space, and the bad ideas continue to be recycled by a new generation of unimaginative, to use your polite term, developers.

It's amateur hour down there and the public has put in hundreds of millions -- even financing an upscale bait and tackle shop -- to kick start it.

It's not a total failure, but I would be interested to hear about some of these initiatives you speak of.

[Steve]

"The first wave of owners -- including two former mayors -- had a massive infusion of publicly financed largesse drop in their laps. But they have done precious little to make the area happen."

Where in the world are you getting this information from? Name names and addresses...

[Urbanized]

I don't recall any mayors, current or former, having personal investments in Bricktown. I definitely don't disagree that speculators drove up prices in the district. I will say, however, that the rents might not be as exhorbitant as you might think. Most of what I have seen over the past few years has been very similar to what is being asked for downtown office space in the core, and is far below what is being asked for space in quality malls. I really think the "high rent" part is overstated.

Now, could owners bow to the seasonality of the district and create more flexible lease structures that were high in the spring/summer/fall and low to non-existent in the winter? Absolutely. The number one problem I have seen with operators who come down here is a misunderstanding of the severe seasonality of what amounts to an outdoor mall, heavy with tourist and event traffic. They try to apply lessons they learned on Memorial or I-240 or NW Expressway to Bricktown, and it simply doesn't work.

Over and over again, in my opinion, people who are somewhat successful elswhere visit here on a slammed Saturday in May, June or July, assume what they are doing in Tulsa or wherever will translate without alteration, assume that they will all but print money here, get plans in place, open around November, and fall flat on their faces.

I think Bricktown requires a more determined, adaptive, resourceful operator than is required to succeed in most places. However, if you can get in sync with the seasonality and event-heavy business available, and offer the crowds what they are looking for, rather than what you think they SHOULD be looking for, the rewards can be fantastic.

[Patrick]

Patrick, the area that you speak of below Zio’s and the building next door are going to be renovated by Charles Harding and John Shelton. The renovations will transform that area and will include an underground parking garage holding close to 400 spaces and transforming the huge building on the SE corner into housing. The rest will retail. That basically leaves the area across the canal under Murphy’s piano lounge to be renovated to make the whole are nicer and more complete.

Yes, I remember the announcement that was made about that development, but that announcement was made almost 2 years ago and still nothing has been done. I'm starting to see a pattern now of people buying up Bricktown properties and announcing grand plans, but later the plans being swept under the carpet and nothing being done.

And, unfortunately, most of the space on the canal is still empty.

And no offense to the owner of the Bricktown Dungeon Ride, but I just think it's a laughing eyesore on the canal. A nice restaurant with outdoor seating on the patio would fit better, I think, instead of a bid blow up dragon.

I think that Chelinos need to take a little more pride and have a little nicer furniture that would be easy to store at night when closed so it won't get stolen.

Chelinos needs to use their canal level for seating and not as a waste dump for broken furniture and trash.

I really really really hate to be pessimistic about Bricktown, because I do like Bricktown. But, I'm just really starting to wonder if Bricktown will ever be all that I envision it could be.

[Steve]

Patrick, look closer.... there's work going on in both buildings as we speak. Is the whole project being launched? No. The underground parking and canal build-out are on hold due to the economy. But the buildings are being renovated - Timberlake Construction is on site.

[Patrick]

I've been pretty harsh in my coverage on Bricktown in recent weeks, so I think I can sustain my credibility as an objective reporter if I answer this.
Is Bricktown going at a pace many would like? Probably not. But to say it's losing momentum, well, in this economy, it's difficult to back that up.
Consider:
- Two sophisticated entertainment venues are opening up along the canal - Coyote Ugly and Michael Murphey's Dueling Pianos (Murphey's is open and is getting very good reviews).
- The Hampton Inn just opened and is staying close to full on a regular basis.
- The Banjo Museum is set to open this fall, and construction is almost done on the Candy Factory.
- Renovations underway on the Zio's building and the one immediately west.
- Two more deals coming I can't tell you about.

Your other criticisms (landscaping, maintenance) are being discussed and may soon have new developments....

A lot of people I think are just getting a little impatient, myself included. I mean, 10 years is a long time. And, we haven't been in a recession for the majority of that time.

I'm just really getting disappointed with the disappointments. I mean, how many proposals have we had for the empty lot on the North canal now? We had grand plans for a grand hotel. Then we had Cotton Gin. Both times the owner have decided to "sell out" instead. Then there's other failed promises in Bricktown, like The Factory, The Steelyard, Laughing Fish Gift Shop, Dick Clark's Bandstand Grill, Sega Gameworks, I could go on and on.

I really hope Bricktown succeeds, but I'm getting a little impatient now after 10 years.

[megax11]

For the first time ever, I went to San Antonio last summer, and I must say their canal is downright awesome. Goes from a mall, to a lot of restaurants, and small retail shops, and the atmosphere behind it is downright incredible.

Don't get me wrong, the one we have here in Bricktown looks nice, but at the end of the day, will it ever become the size of some bigger ones?

I mean it looks like Bricktown has so little to work with in terms of size, so I can't see the canal being too big, though I would love for it to become just as big, or bigger than San Antonio's canal.

The canal in San An had lots of trees, adding to the atmosphere, and it almost had an enclosed feel to it, but that wasn't bad by a long shot.

I just hope they can expand this canal in time, or make it go to the Oklahoma river, where hopefully a huge nightlife will spawn along the river.

Long walkways, retail, restaurants, and boating to take you along the river and to certain hotspots.

EDIT: Oh, and I would also hope they get rid of all those industrial looking buildings near the rock climbing place, and south of I-40 in downtown... Beef those areas up and make it a part of bricktown. Heck, extend the canal into that area.

[Patrick]

Whatever is wrong with Bricktown would anyone like to see it like it was 25 years ago?

If you want to see what happens to an entertainment district when it loses momentum, just look at the West End.

[Patrick]

I think the answer to the Bricktown woes is MAPS 3, without it we will drift without direction and momentum. We can talk all day about Core to Shore, but without the penny sales tax the dream won't be realized.

City leaders have trusted its citizens to do the right thing and vote yes on its initiatives from MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and the Ford Center renovation. Give us the chance to vote YES on MAPS 3! Don't wait until 2012, let's get a plan together and vote yes by 2010.

I concur completely.