Bricktown losing momentum

[Patrick]

I hate to make a pessimistic post, but I've been to the canal several times this spring, and I'm extremely disappointed. It's been 10 years now since the canal opened, and it still looks the same as it did when it opened, in fact maybe worse. There are still buildings that are boarded up and have mounds of dirt sitting out in front of them. The area under Zios looks absolutely horrible. The basement of the Oklahoma Hardware building looks like a bomb shell hit it. Chelinos has broken down furniture located on their canal level. The big dragon out in front of the dungeon ride looks cheesy and circus-like, and the whole concept doesn't really fit in with what I picture as a nice upscale outdoor retail and restaurant district.

I had initially hoped that the canal would've become an open air retail and restaurant center similar to The Grove in LA, Branson Landing, The Legends in Kansas City, or other similar outdoor lifestyle centers. Instead, greedy building owners have sat on their properties at our expense (we paid for the canal). I'm extremely disappointed by the way the canal has turned out, and I'm afraid that many others in this city may be starting to feel the same way. I haven't hear of any new announcements of anything exciting coming to Bricktown lately. It seems like the momentum in Bricktown is coming to a screaching hault. If there's one thing I wish the city would've done, it's that they would've bought up all of the buildings along the canal before the canal was built, and leased out the space themselves, or sold all of the space to a major developer to develop a lifestyle center within them.

Also, the parks dept. isn't doing the greatest job taking care of the landscaping on the canal. There are several trees that have been cut down and the stumps left, there are very few flowers, etc.

Lower Bricktown is a little better (did I say that?????), but I'm still annoyed by the sea of parking along the canal, and the empty lot next to Toby Keiths.

I think if we don't do something to alter the course of Bricktown, it will end up the same way as the West End in Dallas.

[Stinger]

I can't argue with anything you said.

Although, we have fewer alternatives to Bricktown than Dallas does to the West End.

[Caboose]

Yeah. I wish I could disagree.
Bricktown still has a lot of potential but something would have to be done about the owners that are just sitting on their property. High density residential development is sorely needed.

[Jesseda]

i agree, bricktown could have been great.. greed is the downfall, i still have hopes for it though, but it does need some new life...

[warreng88]

Patrick, the area that you speak of below Zio’s and the building next door are going to be renovated by Charles Harding and John Shelton. The renovations will transform that area and will include an underground parking garage holding close to 400 spaces and transforming the huge building on the SE corner into housing. The rest will retail. That basically leaves the area across the canal under Murphy’s piano lounge to be renovated to make the whole are nicer and more complete.

I think that Chelinos need to take a little more pride and have a little nicer furniture that would be easy to store at night when closed so it won't get stolen.

[Mr. T in OKC]

I do agree that greedy propery owners have stunted the growth of Bricktown. I'm not ready to throw in the towl on Bricktown yet, though. I think it was unfortunate that the arrival of the Thunder coincided with the downturn in the economy. I think that when the economy rebounds we will see a growth in Bricktown due to the increase in visitors during the winter months.

[Steve]

I've been pretty harsh in my coverage on Bricktown in recent weeks, so I think I can sustain my credibility as an objective reporter if I answer this.
Is Bricktown going at a pace many would like? Probably not. But to say it's losing momentum, well, in this economy, it's difficult to back that up.
Consider:
- Two sophisticated entertainment venues are opening up along the canal - Coyote Ugly and Michael Murphey's Dueling Pianos (Murphey's is open and is getting very good reviews).
- The Hampton Inn just opened and is staying close to full on a regular basis.
- The Banjo Museum is set to open this fall, and construction is almost done on the Candy Factory.
- Renovations underway on the Zio's building and the one immediately west.
- Two more deals coming I can't tell you about.

Your other criticisms (landscaping, maintenance) are being discussed and may soon have new developments....

[sroberts24]

I've been pretty harsh in my coverage on Bricktown in recent weeks, so I think I can sustain my credibility as an objective reporter if I answer this.
Is Bricktown going at a pace many would like? Probably not. But to say it's losing momentum, well, in this economy, it's difficult to back that up.
Consider:
- Two sophisticated entertainment venues are opening up along the canal - Coyote Ugly and Michael Murphey's Dueling Pianos (Murphey's is open and is getting very good reviews).
- The Hampton Inn just opened and is staying close to full on a regular basis.
- The Banjo Museum is set to open this fall, and construction is almost done on the Candy Factory.
- Renovations underway on the Zio's building and the one immediately west.
- Two more deals coming I can't tell you about.

Your other criticisms (landscaping, maintenance) are being discussed and may soon have new developments....

how long do we have to wait before u can talk?

[Steve]

working it

[sroberts24]

awesome thanks

[Shake2005]

- Two sophisticated entertainment venues are opening up along the canal - Coyote Ugly....

Coyote Ugly, sophisticated?

Really?

[OKCTalker]

Midtown is much more appealing to me, but probably because I seek out interesting places where I can converse with friends and engage other people. Its restaurants, galleries and shops appeal to me more than Bricktown's ingress/egress challenges, paid parking, crowds, drunks and noise.

[Steve]

Coyote Ugly, sophisticated?

Really?

Ok wiseguy, "sophisticated" in terms of investment, promotion and name. Obviously, a bunch of drunk guys drooling at dancing female bartenders and getting sprayed with a hose everytime they ask for water is probably not your's or my definition of fine dining or a night at the art museum.

[Stinger]

Coyote Ugly, sophisticated?

Really?

Sophisticated business people.....

[knightunder]

i agree bricktown could have been a drawn for families and for business people but all what i see is exactly the opposite

[Pete]

Don't forget the School of Rock is coming as well.

I would expect another flurry of activity once the economy stabilizes and money starts flowing more freely for construction loans.

[rondvu]

Perhaps a Dollar General, Family Dollar or a pawn shop could locate in some of the empty spaces, if we are lucky maybe all three can come in.. It would bring an air of sophistication to the area don't you think? If we loose the focus and momentum and let somewhat undesirable business's (as in not right business fit) and stray away from original direction it could soon be reality, but that is my take and it really doesn't hold much water.

[Doug Loudenback]

Ok wiseguy, "sophisticated" in terms of investment, promotion and name. Obviously, a bunch of drunk guys drooling at dancing female bartenders and getting sprayed with a hose everytime they ask for water is probably not your's or my definition of fine dining or a night at the art museum.

What's not sophisticated about what you said? Seems pretty sophisticated to me!

[Decious]

I understand what Patrick is saying but I disagree. I believe that a great number of people had an unrealistic expectation as to what BT would become. I'd argue that it hasn't fallen short but instead it simply has become what Americans desire in an ENTERTAINMENT district. The people who visit and complain about a lack of shopping options are doing just that....visiting. One solitary store won't make it in BT, save it's tourist oriented. No matter what the store. Not Nordstroms, not Urban Outfitters, not C&B. Online shopping has changed the retail industry including the high end market. No critical mass of demo appropriate residents, no store. Doesn't make sense. Has nothing to do with OKC, it's just the way it is. Only the absolute biggest and oldest of major downtown areas enjoy this paradigm.

I think that Bricktown does a kick ass job of being what it is. It's an entertainment district. Neither the motif nor the "sporty" or laid back theme of the district warrants high end or even mid-range retail. It's a place to eat and party and I think that's fine. I believe that the city leadership understands this and that's why we see proposed retail development CLUSTERS in the Core to Shore presentations. Bricktown isn't going to be our premier party and entertainment district. It IS our party and entertainment district. I think that we need to accept it for what it is and be proud of it. Major cities have multiple districts surrounding their core that provide a different slew of amenities. I think we're fortunate that ours are all developing alongside each other. Let's not try and force Bricktown to be something it's not. We've already seen what that looks like. Anyone need a minnow bucket?

[okcpulse]

I understand what Patrick is saying but I disagree. I believe that a great number of people had an unrealistic expectation as to what BT would become. I'd argue that it hasn't fallen short but instead it simply has become what Americans desire in an ENTERTAINMENT district. The people who visit and complain about a lack of shopping options are doing just that....visiting. One solitary store won't make it in BT, save it's tourist oriented. No matter what the store. Not Nordstroms, not Urban Outfitters, not C&B. Online shopping has changed the retail industry including the high end market. No critical mass of demo appropriate residents, no store. Doesn't make sense. Has nothing to do with OKC, it's just the way it is. Only the absolute biggest and oldest of major downtown areas enjoy this paradigm.

I think that Bricktown does a kick ass job of being what it is. It's an entertainment district. Neither the motif nor the "sporty" or laid back theme of the district warrants high end or even mid-range retail. It's a place to eat and party and I think that's fine. I believe that the city leadership understands this and that's why we see proposed retail development CLUSTERS in the Core to Shore presentations. Bricktown isn't going to be our premier party and entertainment district. It IS our party and entertainment district. I think that we need to accept it for what it is and be proud of it. Major cities have multiple districts surrounding their core that provide a different slew of amenities. I think we're fortunate that ours are all developing alongside each other. Let's not try and force Bricktown to be something it's not. We've already seen what that looks like. Anyone need a minnow bucket?

Indeed, but that being said, we shouldn't have relaxed expectations for Bricktown. The greatest places in the country didn't get by on the easy train, nor should Bricktown. No property owner in any district of Oklahoma City has any business being such a property owner if they insist on being a nuisance.

Bricktown today is where it should have been in 2003. And Bricktown in 2012 will be where we want it now. What's to happen to the entertainment district once the old Crosstown Bridge ceases to exist? Moreover, shall we continue to allow the Steelyard area to mingle with Bricktown, or should we take a more aggressive stance?

There is nothing wrong with giving Bricktown credit for its current success. I booked a room at the Residence next month and look forward to my stay. However, it would be a big mistake to look around and agree with one's self that what Bricktown currently offers is "good enough for now."

Competition must never rest. Do not allow it to do so.

[Decious]

I agree with that. However, I don't agree that the district should be forced to be an amalgamation of uses that are not harmonious. I'm not suggesting that BT take an easy route or that we not be ambitious about it's development. The point is that we shouldn't take a small town approach and just get whatever we can as fast as we can.

It seems to me that some people expect BT to be a club-oriented, high-end retail, restaurant laden, high-end residential, mid-range residential, tackle shop bearing utopia that also sports an office supply store. It can't and shouldn't be everything. Some aspects of these attributes will intermingle, but not all and not forced. The Hill at Bricktown was forced, the bait shop was forced and a couple of other things were forced. As much as we like to blame the owners who are holding onto property, we can't act like retailers are beating the door down to get in. They are not, and that's okay. This isn't Lawton. We're big enough to have multiple districts with distinct identities.

[bunchakids]

Last time we were down there to show the place off to my mom from out of town, There were a couple of drunk girls and dudes walking (stumbling) down the street shouting cuss words at someone up above on one of the balcony's, and Loud music pumping from some balcony club.

I still predict Bricktown will turn into the Historic section in downtown Orlando FL.

historic Church Street section in downtown Orlando

Loved it when I went there 10+ years ago, But would not be a place I would be much interested in now with kids.

[soonerguru]

Steve,

Nice comments, but "sophisticated entertainment venues?" On what planet?

[Steve]

Steve,

Nice comments, but "sophisticated entertainment venues?" On what planet?

Blame Doug. He assured me Coyote Ugly is a sophisticated place for fine wine, merryment, musical performance and dance. I simply took his word for it.

[kevinpate]

Two semi-random questions -

Anyone else get the sense Doug may have already arranged a lifetime reservation for a CU barstool space?

Will Trammel call the dance line the Boomerettes?