Hawaii airports vs. Will Rogers Airport

[Patrick]

I know Hawaii is a tourist destination, but it amazes me that many of the regional airports on the various islands of Hawaii (other than Honolulu), are the same size or larger than Will Rogers. For my honeymoon, I visited Kauai, Hawaii, island population of just under 60,000. Their airport in Lihue has 10 gates, and is very comparable to ours in size and layout. Sure, they have a lot of honeymoon and tourist traffic, but give me a break....10 gates. I promise you they didn't use all of them at once. It amazes me that they can support an airport that size and we cry that we're not sure we can even support the current 15 gate airport we have (yup, it's 15 gates, the the 18 gates they'd like you to believe.......it skips several odd numbers since there aren't any gates on the north side of the main terminal). We have 2 gates for American and so does Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii, yet, we have many more flights a day via American. What gives?

[venture]

We have 2 gates for American and so does Lihue, Kauai, Hawaii, yet, we have many more flights a day via American. What gives?

Its called better gate utilization. Southwest typically operates off of an average of 12 flights to 1 gate, other airlines are in the 8 to 10 flights per gate range. It is simply more cost effective for airlines to operate as many flights as they can from one gate before committing themselves to lease another. I would almost be interested to see how people would react to Washington National and their "common use" gate setup. Sure US Airways and Delta tend to have their own areas...but most of the airport is first come first serve with gates.

[thecains]

I dont understand either.....We actually have a small commercial airport as compared to cities of our size....Tulsa International (TIA) Is actually larger than WR World.

[Omaha Cowboy]

Eppley Airfield in Omaha is larger than both and regularly has more total passengers than OKC and Tulsa..Omaha had 3.9 million total air passengers last year and is running 9+% higher in 2005..

Omaha should smash the 4 million passenger mark for 2005..

Once the 5 million mark is reached, a $53 million airport expansion will be in motion for Omaha adding an extra terminal and 58 gates (to the current gate total of 22) to a total of 80 gates for Omaha's Eppley Airfield

FYI..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[okcpulse]

Tulsa International is a bit larger in size (square footage), but they have less gates than we do. Last time I was at TIA, only 9 jetways (I counted) were in operation. In addition, Tulsa has less passenger traffic. WRWA averages 3.5 million a year, TIA averages a little over 3 million a year.

[okcpulse]

You also have to remember, Omaha, a lot of people here in Oklahoma City drive to Dallas to catch direct flights because they say it is cheaper than changing over from OKC in Dallas.

[Omaha Cowboy]

You also have to remember, Omaha, a lot of people here in Oklahoma City drive to Dallas to catch direct flights because they say it is cheaper than changing over from OKC in Dallas.

True..But you could say the same thing about Omahans driving to Kansas City, MO (a 2 1/2 hour drive from Omaha)..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[brianinok]

Kansas City is not a hub, though. So, they don't have near the number of direct flights that Dallas has. You can fly to nearly every airport in the country from Dallas, and most major airports in the world.

[swake]

Tulsa International is a bit larger in size (square footage), but they have less gates than we do. Last time I was at TIA, only 9 jetways (I counted) were in operation. In addition, Tulsa has less passenger traffic. WRWA averages 3.5 million a year, TIA averages a little over 3 million a year.

Tulsa has 17 gates and I think 14 of those are used currently

[thecains]

Isnt TIA renovating the whole airport?

[swake]

The terminal has just had a complete renovation and that project is just one part of a $70 million renovation that started several years ago. Later this decade Tulsa is also slated for an additional north-south runway as well.

http://www.tulsaairports.com/press_r..._04_27_05.html

http://www.tulsaairports.com/tia/terminalexpansion.html

[venture]

Eppley Airfield in Omaha is larger than both and regularly has more total passengers than OKC and Tulsa..Omaha had 3.9 million total air passengers last year and is running 9+% higher in 2005..

Omaha should smash the 4 million passenger mark for 2005..

Once the 5 million mark is reached, a $53 million airport expansion will be in motion for Omaha adding an extra terminal and 58 gates (to the current gate total of 22) to a total of 80 gates for Omaha's Eppley Airfield

FYI..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Perhaps you could provide some proof of this? The only thing I could find was in 2003 where the addition of a third terminal was put on hold. Now as far as your 80 gate total...I just have to laugh. You do realize that is more gates than most major airports? More than Washington National, Chicago Midway, etc. I fear you have your numbers mixed up...there won't be 80 operational gates in Omaha unless some seriously happens to warrant over 800 flights a day into that city. Right now you are looking at 90.

[venture]

Everyone really needs to get a grip here. Number of gates has no relation to the success of an airport. Lets look at Long Beach, CA. They have 12 gates...and transport around 3 million passengers a year with roughly 75-80 flights a day. Relax and take a breath...OKC has room to go until they need to start throwing more gates on. Should they go ahead and finish the east concourse? Yes. However, time it out so its not sitting empty for years to where the existing airlines will be forced to deal with higher gate and landing fees to pay for it.

[thecains]

Yea i cant see Omaha having 80 gates......Tulsa and OKC are bigger towns and more of a aviation base to them. Tulsa most espescially what with American Airlines heavy planes 767's, 757, 777 etc.....

[Omaha Cowboy]

Venture79 posted:

'Perhaps you could provide some proof of this? The only thing I could find was in 2003 where the addition of a third terminal was put on hold. Now as far as your 80 gate total...I just have to laugh.'..

I just don't make this stuff up guys..The report on Omaha's impending Eppley Airport expansion has been public knowledge here for many years now..

From a Omaha World-Herald story on June 1st 2005:

'In 1998, a master plan for Eppley indicated that another terminal building would be needed once Eppley's annual passenger traffic reached 5 million. The plan recommended that a $53.6 million terminal be built just south of the current terminal, with a "people mover" connecting the two buildings.

"We've still got to grow some more before we do that," Smithey said Tuesday.

The 1998 master plan described a terminal four times the size of the current terminal, with up to 80 gates, a double-deck front drive and a six-story parking garage.

The plan indicated that the new terminal would head off flight delays and increased hassle for passengers caused by congestion in the terminal, at passenger gates and along the front-drive entrance.

In 2004, Eppley served 3.87 million passengers, surpassing its 2000 record.'..

A link to the compete story:

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=...7&u_rnd=229697

Now in my opinion, 80 gates for Omaha is obviously over the top..But the expansion calls for an addition of 'up to' that capacity..Eppley in Omaha currently has 22 gates and will easily smash the 4 million passenger plateau for 2005..I can realistically see an expansion of about double the current Omaha gate total once the passenger mark hits 5 million..

OKC is indeed a bit larger than Omaha..Tulsa and Omaha are almost identical in city/metro/CMSA population..I do disagree that either city has anymore and 'aviation base' than does Omaha..Besides if you check the numbers Omaha regularly has significantly higher annual passenger totals than both OKC and Tulsa..

Just some additional FYI..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[thecains]

Omaha 2004 metro population-829,133
Tulsa 2004 metro population-930,842
OKC 2004 metro poulation- over 1 Mil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKC

[Omaha Cowboy]

Omaha 2004 metro population-829,133
Tulsa 2004 metro population-930,842
OKC 2004 metro poulation- over 1 Mil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKC

In the interest of being completely factual..

Omaha's 2004 metro population according to the US Census estimate is 803,801..Omaha's CMSA is 840,000..Tulsa's metro pop is 881,815, CMSA is 930,000..Check out the US Census for the factual info and add up the counties..

Omaha and Tulsa are so close in population it's like trying to pick nats out of a cow turd..

Just another FYI ..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[thecains]

41,000 is a pretty big stretch but seriously who cares?

[Omaha Cowboy]

An some additinal information of interest..The following is a ranking for the top 176 airports in 2004 according to total passengers..

Omaha-#68: 3,868,217
OKC-#74: 3,379,883
Tulsa-#79: 2,943,919..

The link to the complete list:

http://www.aci-na.org/docs/2004%20Pa...20Rankings.xls

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

[venture]

Venture79 posted:

'In 1998, a master plan for Eppley indicated that another terminal building would be needed once Eppley's annual passenger traffic reached 5 million. The plan recommended that a $53.6 million terminal be built just south of the current terminal, with a "people mover" connecting the two buildings.

"We've still got to grow some more before we do that," Smithey said Tuesday.

The 1998 master plan described a terminal four times the size of the current terminal, with up to 80 gates, a double-deck front drive and a six-story parking garage.

That makes it more clear...a master plan. Master plans are meant to look in the future and be extensive in their view. There is an airport in Ohio that had a master plan done a couple years ago. It included another runway and a new midfield terminal. Reality though? The new runway won't be built for 25 years and the midfield terminal likely won't come about.

Master plans are only to be taken with a grain of salt. When it comes time to actually build the facilities - the details will change over and over again. There will never be an 80 gate terminal in Omaha...unless the city explodes in growth. Pittsburgh has a relatively modern (~15 years old) terminal with around 100 gates...half of it is sitting empty right now.

As far as passenger figure in OMA compared to OKC. OMA is blessed with the Southwest effect. It is documented that the airport draws passengers from as far away as Des Moines. OKC doesn't have nearly the same population base to draw passengers from. They get some from LAW and western Oklahoma, but Dallas cuts off feed from the south and Tulsa to the east. Also with AirTran remaining in Wichita, it pulls traffic from the north.

We'll continue to see growth in OKC as the city is growing itself, but the market is currently served adequately by the existing air service. Now if 85% or more of the seats were being sold out of OKC, than I would say different...but I haven't seen the airport release those figures (any else have any luck getting them?).

[OUman]

I dont understand either.....We actually have a small commercial airport as compared to cities of our size....Tulsa International (TIA) Is actually larger than WR World.

If you're talking land area-wise, nope. OKC is much bigger than TUL. OKC is one of the top ten airports in the U.S. area-wise.

OUman

[Omaha Cowboy]

Posted by venture79:

'There will never be an 80 gate terminal in Omaha'..

Like I stated before, 80 gates for Omaha is obviously over the top..But the expansion calls for an addition of 'up to' that capacity..Eppley in Omaha currently has 22 gates and will easily smash the 4 million passenger plateau for 2005..I can realistically see an expansion of about double the current Omaha gate total once the passenger mark hits 5 million..

Whether Omaha's airport 'masterplan' should be taken seriously or not, remains to be seen..Undoubtably none of us will see 80 gates in Omaha in our lifetimes..I've always contended that 40-45 gates (up from the current 22) is realistic given that OMA is moving rapidly to the 5 million total passenger mark..

Can't disagree with your Southwest Airline 'effect' comment..Only to say that Omaha has always drawn airline passengers from smaller metros like Des Moines, IA long before SW began serving Omaha in 1994..But point taken..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace