Metroplex Hurts Okc Economic Prospects

[JOHNINSOKC]

I think the single, biggest reason that OKC has a hard time competing for the BIG corporations and manufacturing operations is because of the METROPLEX 200 miles to our south. We can't compete with DFW airport or even ALLIANCE in Fort Worth. Of course, there are a number of other reasons why this city just can't seem to land the BIG ONE, but our proximity to that massive metro really hurts our economic development prospects. I'm not sure there is anything that will change, at least in the near future. Any thoughts??

[adaniel]

I think the metroplex is a challenge to OKC, but not an impossible one. Look at Birmingham AL. It sits closer to Atlanta than OKC does to Dallas and it still has 6 Fortune 500 headquarters. OKC's inablity to attract "the big one" has more to do with less than stellar leadership on city leader's part. Fortunatley with MAPS and other investments paying off and the "good ole boy" network fading away its only a matter of time before OKC takes off. Besides, I've read in several business magazines that future economic trends favor mid sized cities, so lamenting over DFW's gains during the tech boom doesn't say anything about the future.

[okcpulse]

I don't believe it is less than stellar leadership in Oklahoma City, it is the state legislature. What Oklahoma City can do must comply with state law, and what incentives are made available. But then again, Oklahoma City DOES have the ammo to lobby the state.

[NewPlains]

I think that it is a challenge having such a huge next door neighbor, but it's not an unusual one. There are plenty of examples of cities that manage to prosper dispite being within driving distance of a larger neighbor...look at Portland/Seattle, Denver/Salt Lake City, Houston/New Orleans (although nola has seen better days), St. Louis/Kansas City, etc. If anything, our proximity puts us in a good position to raid the metroplex workforce, since we have a better quality of life (in my opinion at least; I'm sure some people like to live in an atmosphere of perpetual gridlock, high crime, and sky high rent). Still, from a corporate perspective, I can see how Dallas has a more developed infrastructure for something like a corporate headquarters, along with the rabidly pro business Texas government throwing money at them, and that's not likely to change soon. I don't think it's nessicarily a good strategy to only focus on getting big, high profile corporate headquarters to locate here. For one thing, the truly big fish don't move around much if they don't have to, and when they're looking to expand, the instinct is to keep the new branches as close to the trunk as possible, so they can keep an eye on them (of course, the internet is changing that, but slowly)

A better approach in my opinion is to get really good in a few ancillary industries (say, biotech, which we're increasingly competitive in, or aerospace, which we have a long track record on), develop a pool of educated and skilled workers, and then market that. Companies aren't primarily interested in the number of gates in our airport or our number of starbucks per capita. They want to know that if they locate here, they can find people who are qualified to do the sort of work that they do. In that area, I think we're pretty competitive, with OU, UCO, OSU, OUHSC, etc all here in central Oklahoma.

So to summerize: it's a challenge, but I think we're up to it.

[JOHNINSOKC]

If I remember correctly, the mayor made a comment a few months ago that the corporate landscape around here was going to be different within the next couple of years. He made the comment when asked about the possibility that OKC was going after a major league team. When I heard that, I immediately thought that OKC was getting ready to land a couple of major employers. Since that time, we've landed Dell Computers, but no corporate headquarters. Nothing has really happened since then. Does anyone know about any prospects, aside from possibly America West setting up a hub operation here??

[metro]

Washington Mutual, but we lost out on that deal. I'm sure in this time of corporate downsizing and relocation we may pick up a few in time, just hope we don't lose a few that we already have

[soonerguru]

just hope we don't lose a few that we already have

Great point, Metro. I talked to a biggie at Devon and he said when Kerr-McGee sells off its chemical division, downtown OKC will be a ghost town. Further, the loss of those jobs will lighten the weight of the anchor KM has in our fair town.

Not trying to be a big downer.

[Patrick]

Great point, Metro. I talked to a biggie at Devon and he said when Kerr-McGee sells off its chemical division, downtown OKC will be a ghost town. Further, the loss of those jobs will lighten the weight of the anchor KM has in our fair town.

Not trying to be a big downer.

KMG really isn't having that huge of an impact here anymore anyways, so I don't think it will be too big of a loss. I believe they only have a few hundred employees here (less than 400). KMG is only here in name, nothing more.

[Patrick]

As a city, we must learn to differentiate from the Metroplex, instead of trying to be like them. We must sell ourselves as a cleaner, smaller, more family-friendly town, with much better traffic. A better place to raise a family: OKC! Also, instead of trying to go after companies Dallas has a clear edge on, we need to go after different companies. The Biotech industry has already been mentioned in this thread, but it's a good mention.

Instead of trying ti improve air service with American, let's go after other airlines that DFW doesn't have. I think America West is a good move, and I hope they do well in OKC. I hope our airport trust will do all they can to attract them here, and give them incentives to increase their number of flights.

[metro]

I couldnt of said it better myself Patrick

[Pete]

I agree 100% Patrick.

OKC has many benefits: low cost of housing, little traffic, slower pace, friendly people, wide-open spaces, etc.

Comine this with all the other perks that come with living in a medium-sized city, and that's a very attractive package that shouldn't be hard to market, especially to companies that are family-friendly.


Personally, I'd much prefer to live in OKC or Tulsa than DFW or Houston.

[mranderson]

"Comine this with all the other perks that come with living in a medium-sized city, and that's a very attractive package that shouldn't be hard to market, especially to companies that are family-friendly.


Personally, I'd much prefer to live in OKC or Tulsa than DFW or Houston."


Let me see. Nearly 1.5 million people. Hardly a "medium" sized city. Oklahoma City is classified as a MAJOR city.

Frankly, you can have Dallas and Houston. Houston has too many hicks, Dallas has too many of them, but is also backward and very racist. Frankly, I am in Oklahoma City. If I did not live here, it would be on one of the coasts.

Yes. DFW has always hurt Oklahoma City. We need to invsetigate how they attract business. Not only them, but other cities in this country.

[JOHNINSOKC]

Exactly my point, mranderson! We need to find out exactly what they are doing that we aren't doing. Even though our chamber is much more aggressive these days, it's not enough apparently. Our geography is basically the same as DFW, so I'm sure the flatness and lack of forestry around here is not the reason for companies not being interested. I believe our quality of life as a whole is unmatched for this part of the country. OKC IS the best kept secret in the nation!!

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

I think the metroplex is a challenge to OKC, but not an impossible one. Look at Birmingham AL. It sits closer to Atlanta than OKC does to Dallas and it still has 6 Fortune 500 headquarters. OKC's inablity to attract "the big one" has more to do with less than stellar leadership on city leader's part. Fortunatley with MAPS and other investments paying off and the "good ole boy" network fading away its only a matter of time before OKC takes off. Besides, I've read in several business magazines that future economic trends favor mid sized cities, so lamenting over DFW's gains during the tech boom doesn't say anything about the future.

Exactly. And don't forget that we are supposed to be hot, hotter than any other Texan city, and hotter than all American cities except for 7 (Expansion Management say we are nation's 8th hottest city).

Just look at Omaha, and how close it is to KC. Although most of their boom is attributed to Warren Buffet.

We need a corporate raider like Warren Buffet to buy out companies and move them to OKC like Warren Buffet did in Omaha.

At Monseur Anderson: Once again we disagree. As you know I am from Houston, you probably know why I take offense to you saying Houston is all hicks. Well actually Houston is at the foremost of the medical profession, and ACTUALLY has one our fine nation's finest PRIVATE universities.

Bash Houston all you want, the fact is, Houston is probably the least hickish city in America. Just the fact that Houston also has the WORLD'S second busiest port sets it up for a world class business climate.

[Karried]

We need to overhaul worker's comp here and pay workers a higher salary - we have some of the lowest wages ever.

Dallas area has outrageous property taxes but no state tax.

One thing I have recently noticed is that 35 South has some very unattractive views with nary a flower in sight - that's a main artery through our state! It looked horrible to me this past week ( I had to drive back and forth a few times) It's no wonder that people think OKC isn't very attractive if this is all they see driving through....I think we need a serious highway beautification project.

[Karried]

Also, I think the chamber really needs to capitalize on the Forbes recent report regarding the Best places to start a business... aren't we number 4?

I think we should find that article and forward it to every business that we would like to have here -

[Pete]

"Nearly 1.5 million people. Hardly a "medium" sized city. Oklahoma City is classified as a MAJOR city."



According to the July 2004 census estimates (latest available) the OKC MSA is 1.144 million which is about the 47th largest MSA in the US.

As to whether that represents a "major" versus "medium" city, that's a matter of personal opinion. However, when challenging the viewpoint of another, it's best to have your own facts straight.

[Shake2005]

CMSA might get up to 1.25 million, but not 1.5

[mranderson]

CMSA might get up to 1.25 million, but not 1.5

Give it time. My point is Oklahoma City is a MAJOR city. Not medium.

Plus. For the record. I said NEARLY 1.5 million.

[metro]

I don't think 350,000 is near close. An extra 350,000 people to get to 1.5 million would do a whole lot in terms of ecomomic development. Karried, I believe we are #7 and not 4 if I remember right.

[HOT ROD]

Washington Mutual, but we lost out on that deal. I'm sure in this time of corporate downsizing and relocation we may pick up a few in time, just hope we don't lose a few that we already have

Washington Mutual was not for a corporate headquarters, it was for a customer service/financial service unit that might have been expanded into more of a regional centre.

WAMU is NOT going to move their world hq away from Seattle! In fact, we are being blessed with a brand new skyscraper in downtown Seattle thanks to WAMU. They are also expanding the Seattle Art Museum at the same time, YES .. WAMU is building a new downtown skyscraper in Seattle and expanding the SAM!!

That will give WAMU two major skyscrapers downtown (one appx 830 ft/60 floors, the new one 600 ft/40 floors [i think]) plus WAMU has lots of admin centres throughout the Seattle and Tacoma regions.

I wish the best for OKC but I want to make sure the story is correct (esp when I live in Seattle).

It would have been nice to have the new financial service centre in OKC tho. Imagine if it were in First National Centre!!!

[HOT ROD]

As a city, we must learn to differentiate from the Metroplex, instead of trying to be like them. We must sell ourselves as a cleaner, smaller, more family-friendly town, with much better traffic. A better place to raise a family: OKC! Also, instead of trying to go after companies Dallas has a clear edge on, we need to go after different companies. The Biotech industry has already been mentioned in this thread, but it's a good mention.

Instead of trying ti improve air service with American, let's go after other airlines that DFW doesn't have. I think America West is a good move, and I hope they do well in OKC. I hope our airport trust will do all they can to attract them here, and give them incentives to increase their number of flights.

Patrick, I've said this time and time again - YOU need to run for mayor of Oklahoma City! !!!!!

[okcpulse]

Anything we can do to go with other air carriers over American is fine by me. My wife and I fly Continental, however we mostly fly to Houston now. I haven't been on American since 1999.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, any city that has a population of 500,000 or more is classified as a 'big city', not a major city. Some people still use the term 'major city', and there is nothing wrong with that.

[metro]

HOT ROD, thanks for the clarification. I never stated HQ but I didnt state otherwise either. Although I knew it was more of a customer service/regional proposal others may not have although it has been posted on this board numerous times.

The statement I was replying to stated if we were getting or possibly getting any major employers. I think if we would of landed a WM customer service/ financial office, it would of counted as a major employer considering they are counting Dell as one. Thanks.

[venture]

Very interesting discussion going on...want to through out a few questions/comments.

What is the current occupancy rate for downtown office space right now? I would imagine that it may be fairly decent to high right now. As far as new corporate development downtown - I would expect a surge happen once the old I-40 land is cleared and opened up to the south. The trend for companies are campus style buildings - not high rises. Offer new companies the ability to have a sprawling campus along the river downtown right next to the entertainment district...and it becomes significantly more attractive for their employees. Owens Corning (the fiberglas people) did this in Toledo OH about 10 years ago...they left their 30-story high rise for a new 3 floor hi-tech campus along the banks of the river there downtown.

City government style...I noticed that OKC is still in a city manager form of government versus a strong mayor form. This may be something they want to look in to changing to allow the mayor the ability to actually do their job. The key then would be finding someone who is willing to both be chief executive and head cheerleader for the city.

As far as future developments...a lot of things can be done to attract people to OKC. Bring more people - the city will become more attractive to companies. Downtown OKC is a step in the right direction but they must make sure it continues. Also it wouldn't hurt to push Six Flags into revamping their hometown park. Its kind of pathetic that their park in their home city is kind of pathetic.

Other infrastructure improvements will be needed as well. Quit the bickering and get working on the outer loop from Norman to the east side. Yes the bulk of the growth in OKC is on the west and NW side of the city, but Norman is growing further east - and Sooner Road is not a good alternative to the nightmare congestion on 35. As far as a local light rail program...I don't really see the massive benefits from it. The road network in OKC is quite well planned out and a rail system won't add any major benefits. The only exception would be to connecting the core business centers (downtown and NW Exp) with the airport and tourist destinations. As far as the airport goes...I would say the east concourse might as well be finished to permit for future growth - even if they have to just put it together step by step. This rolls into my next topic...

There is also a need to encourage existing companies to grow in OKC. The city use to tout America Online in being a major local employer...now they have sunk to the background as they continue to cut employees at their only LEASED call center. Yes call centers are typically low paying operations - but they bring jobs and skill employees in several areas. Of course one major help to encouraging growth in OKC is better transportation. No we'll never see nonstop flights to London...but that doesn't mean existing airlines can't be encouraged to grow. There are several opportunities for existing airlines as dots continued to be connected at the major network airlines. American is expanding Miami now, United has their hubs in Washington Dulles and San Francisco, the US Airways/America West merger will open new opportunities to Philadelphia and Charlotte, and so on. There will never be a full scale hub operation here as some may want to believe, but that doesn't mean OKC can't have nonstop service to nearly all major business centers via the airlines that are currently here. There are also other new opportunities that should be explored - Alaska, AirTran, JetBlue, Independence, etc.

We can all dream and have high hopes for the city...but to get there we need to fix up some of the areas to make the city more attractive. Who knows...maybe one day one of my ideas would happen - an interconnecting water way between most of the area lakes to allow boaters to travel between them. Such a development could also spur high value residential and commerical construction along such a water way.