Bridges spanning Oklahoma River

[Patrick]

This was mentioned on another forum and I thought it was interesting:

"There are 17 bridges across the Oklahoma River between Easter and Meridian. It would be nice to see the city beautify these bridges to make the river more attractive. Here are some ideas;

1. Add neon lights
2. Add wroght iron
3. Fake suspension cables and towers
4. Brick facade
5. add arches under the bridge (for a European effect)

Since all these modifications would only be decorative and non structural they should be inexpensive to implement. Money could come from beautification grants and other sources and not from real highway, bridge, and road funds. "
-----------------------------
I personally like ideas 1, 3, and 5. Give the bridges somelight at night!! And the suspension cables would make the bridges look more like the Golden Gate! The arches would add architecture!

[floater]

Hmmm. I like the idea of bridge lighting. We could go the bulb route:



Or uplighting in colored lights:



Or stick to lampposts:



But I like neon too. Bricktown's Oklahoma bridge over the canal has cool neon strips that change.

We could have a theme among all the bridges, such as Bricktown's neon, or Native American-inspired banners and decor. Or, we let each have a distinct personality. If wide enough, maybe we can put benches or overlook telescopes. Funding doesn't have to be limited to public sources. City/state staff, or even local groups could fundraise for improvement and maintenance. The sky's the limit!!!

[downtownguy]

I have noticed the city has been adding some of the old fashioned lamps on the river bridges that were first added to the Robinson Avenue bridge a few years ago. It's not much, but it's a start. I wonder if the Centennial Commission might want to look at some of your ideas.
-The Downtown Guy
www.downtownguy.blogspot.com

[swake]

I went to the Centennial site and found some revealing information. You want to know why Tulsans are cynical about the state and less than supportive of OKC at times? The I-40 relocation is a great example. The states top highway building priority is to move an existing overloaded 6 lane expressway in OKC, but Tulsa is 15 YEARS into the project to widen the crumbling and overloaded I-44 with no end in sight and far from completed funding. In fact, there isn’t even a date to start construction on the most expensive section between Lewis and Riverside or any idea where funding will be found.

But, as good an example as that is, this one is better.

The Oklahoma Centennial.

First off, granted that OKC is the capital and will have more centennial projects than other parts of the state. But this is just plain criminal. These are funded and completed projects. I’m not counting promises, Tulsa misses out on those constantly, see the highway project above, it was projected to take 5 years, it’s going to take at least 25.

State Capital Projects 11
Other OKC Projects 14
Other OKC Metro 4

Tulsa City Projects 0
Other Tulsa Metro 0

OKC has had 29 projects completed, Tulsa has none. Not one. Zero. Again. This simply has to change if the state is going to move forward and has to change if OKC wants Tulsa’s support on urban issues.

[Patrick]

There's one major difference between I-44 in Tulsa and the I-40 Crosstown in Oklahoma City: The Crosstown is a bridge that probably has less than 10 years left in her if that. If the state doesn't do something fast, parts of the Crosstown could start collapasing. That would be tragic. Simply, the Crosstown is just higher priority because of the safety risks that it poses. We need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Let's compare OKC's I-35 widening project to Tulsa's I-44 project. That's been going on for as long as I can remember...at least 25 years, probably more. And they're not even close to being completely done. Once you enter Moore, it goes back to 4 lanes. And the north side of I-35 still needs widening south of I-44. So, we're in the same bout in regards to these projects.

In regards to Centennial Projects....most of the ones that have been completed are on the state capitol grounds. That makes sense....afterall, it's the state capitol and that will be the focal point for the celebration....not the city of OKC, but the state capitol.

Also, many of the Centennial Projects are privately funded, so it may be up to the private donors when and where the projects are located. Of course some are supported by the state like the Land Run monument, but not all, in fact not any of those already completed.

Here is a list of completed OKC projects. Notice how many are on the state capitol grounds....by the way, many of the projects listed "OKC" on the Oklahoma Centennial site, are actually on the state capitol campus, they're just not part of the state capitol itself...I've listed those below as "State Capitol Campus":

1. Art Murals in State Capitol Rotunda (State Capitol)
2. Boy Scout Redbud Tree Project (State Fairgrounds)- Sponsored by private group
3. Capitol Restrooms American Disabilities Act (State Capitol)
4. Centennial Memorial Plaza of the Oklahomans (State Capitol)
5. Constitutional Display (State Capitol)
6. Court of Criminal Appeals (State Capitol)
7. Flag Education for Children (privately sponsored)
8. 45th Infantry Division Monument, Relocation of (privately sponsored)
9. Governor's Mansion Renovation and Restoration (state capitol campus)
10. House Chamber Renovation and Restoration (State Capitol)
11. Kate Barnard: Oklahoma's Voice for Social Justice Statue (State Capitol Campus)
12. Law Library (State Capitol)
13. Oil Well Renovation/Restoration (State Capitol)
14. Phillips Pavilion (privately sponsored)
15. Red River Journey Park (State Capitol complex- privately funded)
16. Senate Chamber Renovation/Restoration (State Capitol)
17. Sequoyah Building Renovation/Restoration (State Capitol complex)
18. State Capitol Complex Improvements Project (State Capitol)
19. State Capitol Dome (State Capitol)
20. Stockyards "Headin' to Market" Sculpture (privately funded)
21. Transportation Building Renovation (paid for by MAPS I)
22. 2002 Annual (NASACT) Conference (not really somethign we keep, but still privately funded)
23. We Belong to the Land: State Capitol Mural (not sure what or where this is)
24. Will Rogers Building (State Capitol Complex)


There are only 2 suburb projects I consider part of the metro...I don't consider Choctaw or El Reno part of the metro.....if you did, we might consider the project in Bartlesville as part of the Tulsa projects.

Anyways, both are in Edmond and both are privately funded. The Trolley project in El Reno was also privately funded.

If Tulsa wants more projects, the community is gonig to have to get together and fund them like OKC has done.

[swake]

Ok, but on I-44 they have completed, in 15 years, 5 MILES, total. There are two more miles that are supposed to be started in the next two years and completed in the next five. That will be 20 years and 7 miles. Not to Catoosa and Sapulpa. It’s 4 lanes in midtown Tulsa today, with no idea when they can start to widen the highway. With no idea on how to pay for widening it. And there are no plans at all to widen I-44 from 4 lanes in west Tulsa or far east Tulsa much less into the suburbs. Not even on the forecast. So don’t compare it to I-35 in Moore. I’m talking midtown Tulsa, I-44 is four lanes on crumbling bridges. And the part from Riverside to Lewis won’t be even started in the next five years at least, and that’s if they find the money.

Also, Choctaw and El Reno are in the OKC MSA, Bartlesville is not in the Tulsa MSA, it is in Tulsa’s CMSA, according the new rules on metropolitan areas from the census department

The last big state bond issue, part one was heavily centered on OKC with part two to have the Tulsa area projects in it, but wait, part two never happened. I believe that some of these projects on the centennial list were paid for by that bond issue. Tulsa has no rail, no four year public university, no free interstate highways connecting it, no public hospital. The upcoming university bond issue again is slighting Tulsa area colleges as has the latest 5 year roads package. The proposed tobacco tax hike helps OKC much more than Tulsa with regards to Medicare funding and such.

I’m not complaining so much as letting you know that there is a great deal of anger here about this, a great deal. There are a lot of people here that aren’t so much jealous of Bricktown and a reborn downtown and good highways and colleges and a spiffed up capital area but are really more angry that Tulsa has largely assisted in funding many of the projects that have been part of all of that and Tulsa gotten very little in return. The Tulsa World often is leading this anger. You are never going to get Tulsa’s to be supportive of rail in OKC for instance when it was promised to be extended quickly to Tulsa and now that isn’t even talked about.

Tulsa’s economy has really sputtered that last few years, and the state has done nothing to help this area recover, the state needs to change it’s attitude, Rural and OKC interests need to stop freezing out Tulsa. The Tulsa World has even mentioned, supposedly in jest, that Tulsa and Eastern Oklahoma should succeed from Oklahoma. Even that it was mentioned should give you something to think about.

[downtownguy]

Swake, your anger shouldn't be dismissed. You have some very valid points. But please also realize there are many of us in Oklahoma City who want to see Tulsa thrive. The two cities should be allies, not rivals.
-The Downtown Guy
www.downtownguy.blogspot.com

[HOT ROD]

Swake:

You are right that OKC MSA includes Choctaw and El Reno (it is actually from El Reno to Shawnee and Guthrie to Newcastle/Norman). And you are right about Tulsa's MSA and CSA.

But what you have to realize is that OKC also funds much of the state projects. If anything, OKC and Tulsa gets the shaft from the rural areas. We fund just about everything in the state, as we are the largest draw of tax dollars.

But the only reason why OKC gets anything is because we are the capital. Lawmakers SEE what is going on here. And even then, it is like pulling teeth to get them to approve something without making sure somebody in Podunk also gets a mil for this or that.

This is why (on another thread) I said we should encourage the state to emphasize the two largest cities. Like up here in Seattle, the state succeeds when the largest city succeeds. You all think Washington is so progressive and such but it is actually only Seattle and Tacoma. But the two of us have SO MUCH PULL in this state. We are the tax base so we have the representation in the state. OK should do the same.

OKC Metro represents over 1/3 of the state in population and Tulsa Metro represents 1/4, put the two together and we should control no less than 3/5 of the state. Why is this not the case? We are the population centres of the state and contribute the most tax dollars with our jobs.

We in OKC here ya Tulsa. The main difference here are:

We are the crossroads of three major interstates. If I-40 fails, then it amounts to considerable impact in the national economy (definitely the state economy). This is why the Crosstowne is at the top of the list.

We haved very good business/political support base here. Norick et al have gotten the partnerships established which has created a renaissance. When we say "Continue the Renaissance" it is more than just downtown, it is this partnership that has made OKC much more progressive and cosmopolitan.

We have learned from our past. OKC used to always look to Tulsa (and battle them) for this and that in the state. We stopped doing that as it held us back. We were only looking to Tulsa for our status. Now, we look to cities bigger than Dallas and much more global. We analyzed our strengths and are currently building up from our weaknesses. There will always be rivalries (Seattle and Tacoma are rivals as well) but when it comes to issues urban - we both should unite and take over the state.

It is not so much that OKC gets rail before Tulsa or replaces its downtown viaduct (although it makes sense), it is that both cities accomplish their urban projects with the support of the state.

Once this happens, the state as a whole becomes richer - and people's minds really change. Ask Oregon if you dont believe me [Oregon would be even more backward and conservative than Arkansas if it werent for Portland - which controls the state. Portland is prosperous and urban, so the state benefits and everyone has a reasonably favourable opinion of Oregon].

WE should Foster a Renaissance of the Urban Areas of our State. Then, Oklahoma as a whole would benefit - with an increasing population, tax dollars, disposable income, and IMAGE!!!

[swake]

I agree with all these points, the battle here should be urban vs the rural interests that would hold the state down so they can save a few dollars on taxes.

[Patrick]

swake,

All of your points are valid. Now that you went a little further in what you had to say, I see where you're coming from. While OKC is getting 7 miles of Broadway Extension widened at one time, and the Crosstown completed all at once, Tulsa is having to suffer with deteriorating interstates...not only that, Tulsa traffic warrants widening of most of your interstates, especially those to the burbs.

Hot Rod pretty much somes up everything I would've said. I think he's right on when he says that lawmakers focus on OKC because it's "the capital" and they live here. But, I really agree with you guys that we need to start focusing on our large urban areas, namely both OKC and Tulsa.

I do think Vision 2025 will help Tulsa steal some thunder though. Tulsa has been sleeping for quite some time now, and with the increased national attention Tulsa will get from 2025, the state government is bound to take notice.

The citizens of OKC, for the most part, definitely view Tulsa as our ally, even if our state lawmakers don't feel that way. I don't think Kirk Humphreys would've met with Mayor Lafortune to discuss Vision 2025, and ways to make it become a successful mission, if our city idn't want yours to thrive. As a city, we're here to back you guys up! Hopefully our state will get the picture.

And by the way, the segment of I-35 through Moore has not been widened. We just finished the portion around Crossroads Mall. It's taken us 20 some years to widen 7 miles of I-35. Unfortunately, federal dollars are just harder to get when it comes to funding interstate projects. Yes, the Crosstown project will begin soon, but don't even begin to think we have the money needed to complete that. We're a long ways from reaching the funding we need. The Feds gave us a worthless $30 mill for it last year. It's going to take almost $400 mill to complete.

Anyways, I here ayou about I-44. You guys are in desparate need of a widening project there. I've driven on it during rush hour, and it's no fun!

[mranderson]

"You are right that OKC MSA includes Choctaw and El Reno (it is actually from El Reno to Shawnee and Guthrie to Newcastle/Norman). And you are right about Tulsa's MSA and CSA. "

Actually, the metro goes to Purcell.

Neon lights are a good idea. In fact, each bridge could have different colors.

I also like the christmas type lights. Bridges all over have them. An example is the George Wahington bridge in New York City. Of course, going into Manhattan, they whack you for $6.00 to cross.

Add the lights or the neon, plus make them look like suspension bridges. A mini Golden Gate (really paint it gold), Sunshine Bridge (Tampa), Brooklyn bridge, and others. THAT would be neat and maybe make them tourist attractions.

Just get away from cowboys and Indians. I am tired of people thinking we still "ride the range."