Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

[metro]

Have any of you looked at the results from the MAPS 3 survey? By far, the most requested city upgrade from citizens was mass transit (668 votes). The new convention center received a whopping 40 votes from citizens, which is far down on the list. Is there something we don't know about the importance of convention centers? Or is the city council running their own agenda?

BOTH. I would almost guarantee you will see some form of mass transit and convention center in MAPS3. Won't be surprised to see the canal extension in there as well, or if not a seperate mechanism for it.

[metro]

Not to mention that allowing one casino in Bricktown/Downtown/River area would set PRECIDENT and then others would want to cash in and build. We don't want to turn our downtown into Biloxi, MS.

[FritterGirl]

Not to mention that allowing one casino in Bricktown/Downtown/River area would set PRECIDENT and then others would want to cash in and build. We don't want to turn our downtown into Biloxi, MS.

I can see the bumper stickers now: Don't Biloxi my Bricktown!

[BPD]

I can see the bumper stickers now: Don't Biloxi my Bricktown!

Where and when can I get one of those?

[Richard at Remax]

I wouldn't mind having one down there. I'm sure some people have been to the Harrah's in DT new Orleans. I think its a perfect "other option" for out of towners to do. My friend is a dealer at Riverwind and said that a couple players from the Jazz came down there and played poker for hours the last time they were here. I understand the negatives of casinos, especially in a urban setting, but if you build it right and surround it with the right thing, it could be successful

[okclee]

I would like to see one or two casinos down on the Oklahoma River, on the south side of the river shores. If the City of Okc would set the building codes and requirements to be first class, the casinos would do it. This could be a win - win for the city and the indian casios.

The city could work a deal with one or two casinos. The deal could be set up in a way that the casinos must build large high rise hotels with conference rooms along with multi-story casinos. Another requirement could be that the casinos must do all the necessary utility improvements along both sides of the river, and maintain the shores along both sides of the river.

Basically I think that you could have casinos bending over backward to locate along the Oklahoma river and they (the casinos) would do anything to be located in this area.

[metro]

how do you control it to one or two casinos without discriminating, setting precident, etc? Also, the whole idea was brought about because of a "loophole" in the law. The topic was originally brought to light because a tribe was trying to acquire land in Bricktown and then put it into a trust to get it deemed "tribal land" even though its not currently on tribal property or deemed historically significant tribal land at the present time.

[okclee]

I think that the State or City could zone an area along the Okla. River for Hotel Casinos only. This area would have the highest buidling codes and requirements that would benefit the city in so many different ways. The area of land that would be zoned for hotel casinos would restrict the number of casinos that could fit into the area along the river.

I am not sure how much land area that a first class hotel casino would require, but zoning only a small area that could only fit one, two, or three is how the city could control the number of casinos.

The city could then open this area for bidding by casinos. The best package put together by a casino would get the land to build and operate a casino.

[metro]

Again, but what's to stop a tribe from buying a prime piece of property, putting it in federal trust, claiming it as "tribal land"? Keep in mind Native American tribes are their own "nation or nation-state."

[okclee]

What is stopping the tribes from already doing that?

I believe that the state has some sort of legal agreement with the tribes and their casinos. The state agreed to allow a certain type or class casino in exchange for the state having a certain say in the location of the casinos. Remember the state had to agree a few years ago and that allowed indian casinos to bring in more games, the state got something in return other than money.

[OKCisOK4me]

I wouldn't mind having one down there. I'm sure some people have been to the Harrah's in DT new Orleans. I think its a perfect "other option" for out of towners to do. My friend is a dealer at Riverwind and said that a couple players from the Jazz came down there and played poker for hours the last time they were here. I understand the negatives of casinos, especially in a urban setting, but if you build it right and surround it with the right thing, it could be successful

That's why I believe that when there was talk about it, and I guess they still have it in their plans, the casino that was suppose to be built north of Remington Park on the west side of I-35 between Wilshire & Britton would/could/will be a success. Everything that's with that project is AWESOME. And the best part of it, it's not in Bricktown or near downtown, which I think is a huge benefit. Look at Kansas City's AmeriStar Casino or Harrah's Riverboat Casino. They are nowhere near downtown. They're on the east outer loop of I-435 and they're successful in that location. So for us, I think that area north of Remington would do just as well. And since OKC is so big, we'll get more tax revenue no matter where the place is built. And like I said before, it's nowhere near downtown, which is more aesthetically pleasing to me!

[lasomeday]

Commuter Rail is the only thing that will work in OKC currently from Norman to Edmond. That should be tried first and if it is successful work down from there.

I think after Maps 3 (commuter rail, convention center, and central park), Maps 4 should be a new football stadium. We could have a bowl game here and all the state playoffs then draw an NFL Team. I am sure by 2025, we will be big enough for one. Along with the football stadium we should look at funding an art institute. That would draw more creative people after the School of Rock is up over 2,500 students in 2025. They should also look at extending the canal with all of the Maps votes. They could also look at doing things for the rest of the city. Maybe a Botanical Garden (like Tulsa) or instituting the same philosophy that NYC has done with small parks throughout the city. OKC could revamp the parks it already has and add small parks as well as large parks in the sprawling areas that aren't close to parks, and I don't just mean a jungle gym and covered area for picnics, actual parks with landscaping and some sort of water feature or sculpture, A park that attracts people to come and relax and admire the beauty of it.

[Thunder]

I would love to have huge areas of hotels/casinos and entertainment. I think it would make OKC look more upscale and attract more things to relocate here. It would be best for these upscale places to build along side the river, so they have the duty to fix up a portion of the river in front of their businesses.

As for mass transit, I'm not sure if this is a train or bus. If it is a train, I think some sort of a fancy train that is capable of slots machine. Funding for the services can be collected thru these slots machine.

[Chicken In The Rough]

I agree we need a newer and larger convention center. I took a quick look at the convention centers of comparable cities. It seems the average is roughly three times the size of the Myriad (Cox). Several of these competing convention centers are attached to mid-sized arenas and convention hotels.

This has left me wondering... if we build a shiny new convention center with 450,000 square feet of exhibit space and all the other bells and whistles, and if this attracts a couple major hotels, what is to become of the Cox? What happens to the Cox arena? What happens to the two existing hotels already connected to the Cox?

The Cox is boxed in and it will be extremely difficult or impossible to expand it to meet today's standards. But, it seems wasteful to build a new convention center when we have this facility (the Cox).

Have there been any proposals for the Cox? Will it be demolished?

[CuatrodeMayo]

It would seem like a good site for the Ford Center replacement in 20 years, or so. Or just sell it off as a private building site.

[metro]

I believe the tentative plan or at least speculation is to eventually make the Cox site a TOD.

http://www.transitorienteddevelopment.org/

[bluedogok]

I agree we need a newer and larger convention center. I took a quick look at the convention centers of comparable cities. It seems the average is roughly three times the size of the Myriad (Cox). Several of these competing convention centers are attached to mid-sized arenas and convention hotels.

This has left me wondering... if we build a shiny new convention center with 450,000 square feet of exhibit space and all the other bells and whistles, and if this attracts a couple major hotels, what is to become of the Cox? What happens to the Cox arena? What happens to the two existing hotels already connected to the Cox?

The Cox is boxed in and it will be extremely difficult or impossible to expand it to meet today's standards. But, it seems wasteful to build a new convention center when we have this facility (the Cox).

Have there been any proposals for the Cox? Will it be demolished?

Convention center space is typically flat, wide open display space, a 14,000 seat arena doesn't work for that. The current Cox Center is too small in "convention space" to really attract large scale conventions.

It would seem like a good site for the Ford Center replacement in 20 years, or so. Or just sell it off as a private building site.

That is exactly where it should go, that was a big plus for the Big 12 basketball tournament having the men's and women's games right across the street from each other.

[Caboose]

Get over yourself.

If you really wanted to know the answer to your question, you would read the previous threads about it.

But if you just want to have an internet fight, I dont' have the time.

Bluedog: I know it can be done well...but Connecticut is a world away from OKC. As for Winstar, a lot less people die when a 707 goes down as compared to a 747 crash...but it is still a fatal plane crash.

I guess I could live with one one the river. However, how ironic would it be to have a place that celebrates Native American culture across from a indian casio?

Not very?

[jbrown84]

But, it seems wasteful to build a new convention center when we have this facility (the Cox).

By the time the new convention center could be complete, the Myriad would be 50 YEARS OLD. The site is perfect for a new arena to replace the Ford Center. For the time being it should remain an arena because we have such an advantage of having arenas across the street from eachother.

We are on the verge of losing the annual Pre-Paid Legal convention because our facilities are just not big enough. We have to build a new convention center. The Cox is a joke.

[lasomeday]

As I see it, if we build a new Convention Center....

Then Maps 4 should look at utilizing the Cox Cenvention space for something even bigger! Maybe a downtown Football Stadium to draw a bowl game or NFL team in 35 years! It has the sq footage to house a football stadium. I know parking would be an obstacle, but with light rail and all of the new residential towers downtown in 35 years it won't be as big of a concern as it is today! I just thought I would throw that out there!

[bluedogok]

That site's not big enough for a modern football stadium.

[jbrown84]

And you can't fill an NFL stadium just with downtown residents and people coming in on mass trans. It works for a majestic new arena though.

[Chicken In The Rough]

Will the new convention center include a mid-sized arena? Having two arenas in close proximity is a big selling point, and several convention centers in competing markets have them. The Cox is getting old, and it is too boxed in to expanded. I think the land is also too valuable to redeveop as a huge lowrise. If it is redeveloped as a T.O.D., I would like to see a series of connected midrises.

I think I would also only agree to a redevelopment of this block if the new convention center included some sort of replacement for the arena. Perhaps the Ford could become the mid-sized arena and we could build an even larger arena on the same scale as the AA Center in Dallas.

[mcgrawsdad]

I love casinos...I play cards three or four times a week. The issue with a casino is that every ounce of imperical evidence suggest that casinos are detrimental to society via the social cost (which are very hard to quantify). In general crime increases with a direct correlation to the proximity of the casino.

[Nermel]

Again, but what's to stop a tribe from buying a prime piece of property, putting it in federal trust, claiming it as "tribal land"? Keep in mind Native American tribes are their own "nation or nation-state."

It would have to be approved by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. However, no federally recognized tribes have any historical connection to lands in Oklahoma County. Thus, getting it done might be very difficult.