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Thread: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

  1. #1

    Default Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    So we all probably know what the speculative dreaming is for Core to Shore, (i.e. housing additions, office parks, retail towers, residential towers, etc.)

    My question is if we pass a MAPS III including some sort of mass transit (light rail, better bus lines, etc), a Central Park and the Convention Center, what would be next? Most everything else will have to be privately funded, so what do you think would be the first thing to be built?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Casino...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by dalelakin View Post
    Casino...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    You asked for opinions and that is mine. I see that as a very strong potential, I hope it doesn't happen but I think people are fooling themselves if they think there is no chance of a casino making its way into that part of the city.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Don't be surprised if you see "canal extension" in the near future, not saying it's the best use of the money, but don't be surprised..... Outdoor amphitheatre would also be a good possibility.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by dalelakin View Post
    You asked for opinions and that is mine. I see that as a very strong potential, I hope it doesn't happen but I think people are fooling themselves if they think there is no chance of a casino making its way into that part of the city.
    I was not slapping my head because of your answer, I was doing it as a "Crap if they do" kind of gesture. I just really hope one is not near that area. In 2005, the Shawnee tribe talked about opening one in BT and it wasn't very well received if I remember correctly.
    Last edited by warreng88; 01-28-2009 at 03:18 PM. Reason: adding tidbits

  7. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    I was not slapping my head because of your answer, I was doing it as a "Crap if they do" kind of gesture. I just really hope one is not near that area. In 2005, the Shawnee tribe talked about opening one in BT and it wasn't very well received if I remember correctly.
    It wasn't at all...which I think is ridiculous. It's a huge draw and right now, tax dollars are being spent OUTSIDE OKC at Lucky Star and Riverwind. Remington is an OK draw, but is nothing compared to Riverwind.

    Why is the idea of a casino on the outskirts of Bricktown so awful anyway? People will a) come to OKC more, and b) spend more money in Bricktown. It could be a major cornerstone of the Bricktown entertainment district.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Why is the idea of a casino on the outskirts of Bricktown so awful anyway? If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the answer anyway

  9. #9

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCMallen View Post
    It wasn't at all...which I think is ridiculous. It's a huge draw and right now, tax dollars are being spent OUTSIDE OKC at Lucky Star and Riverwind. Remington is an OK draw, but is nothing compared to Riverwind.

    Why is the idea of a casino on the outskirts of Bricktown so awful anyway? People will a) come to OKC more, and b) spend more money in Bricktown. It could be a major cornerstone of the Bricktown entertainment district.
    I understand your side of it, I am also looking at the design side of the building and how it reflects on the district.

    "Putting the land in trust would exempt it from normal zoning and architectural restrictions and also would exempt the tribe from bringing a proposal before the Bricktown Urban Design Committee."

    This is the problem I have with it. If they can get the land, they move it into a trust and they can build whatever they want to. I don't have anything against any of the tribes or what they are doing, I just don't like that they do not have to answer to anyone.

  10. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    I understand your side of it, I am also looking at the design side of the building and how it reflects on the district.

    "Putting the land in trust would exempt it from normal zoning and architectural restrictions and also would exempt the tribe from bringing a proposal before the Bricktown Urban Design Committee."

    This is the problem I have with it. If they can get the land, they move it into a trust and they can build whatever they want to. I don't have anything against any of the tribes or what they are doing, I just don't like that they do not have to answer to anyone.
    I bet they are willing to make concessions in that regard in order to be able to build.

  11. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by BPD View Post
    Why is the idea of a casino on the outskirts of Bricktown so awful anyway? If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the answer anyway
    Oh, please enlighten us with your brilliant perspective. I'm thinking I, and the rest of the board, can handle it, n00b.

  12. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by BPD View Post
    Why is the idea of a casino on the outskirts of Bricktown so awful anyway? If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the answer anyway
    Ain't that the truth...

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    I understand your side of it, I am also looking at the design side of the building and how it reflects on the district.

    "Putting the land in trust would exempt it from normal zoning and architectural restrictions and also would exempt the tribe from bringing a proposal before the Bricktown Urban Design Committee."

    This is the problem I have with it. If they can get the land, they move it into a trust and they can build whatever they want to. I don't have anything against any of the tribes or what they are doing, I just don't like that they do not have to answer to anyone.
    Exactly. One needs only to make a visit to Winstar on near the OK/Texas border to see what an Oklahoma tribe is capable of. An indian casino in Bricktown would make Bass Pro look like an upscale urban destination.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    I think extension of the canal makes sense, personally, I would like to see them add a canal leading from the Oklahoma River to the State Fairgrounds.

    I also think we need a dedicated Maps (or something similiar) for the OKC Parks Department.

  14. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuatrodeMayo View Post
    Ain't that the truth...
    I also invite you to make a convincing argument of why a casino located somewhere on the outskirts, but connected to, Bricktown is such an awful idea it should never be considered.

    You guys are clearly full of smartass, I wanna see the smarts.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    The other problem that I forgot to mention is that casinos do not pay taxes, therefore what they make would not help improve the area. In fact, I think it would take business away from what we consider the bricktown area because most likely they would have restaurants and that sort of thing.

  16. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCMallen View Post
    I also invite you to make a convincing argument of why a casino located somewhere on the outskirts, but connected to, Bricktown is such an awful idea it should never be considered.

    You guys are clearly full of smartass, I wanna see the smarts.
    This issue has been discussed in multple threads before...do a search and you will see nearly all the arguments. There is no need to re-hash it again.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuatrodeMayo View Post
    Exactly. One needs only to make a visit to Winstar on near the OK/Texas border to see what an Oklahoma tribe is capable of. An indian casino in Bricktown would make Bass Pro look like an upscale urban destination.
    There are some very nice tribe owned casinos, granted most in Oklahoma are not those but it can be done. I don't think a tribe would go to the effort to acquire "Bricktown area" land with all the political ramifications at risk and put a sprung up like Winstar. Although, Winstar has started building some more permanent structures down there, Dryvit monstrosities but better than the glorified tent. I think OKC could use something like this near Bricktown/downtown like across the river/current I-40 from Bricktown and across I-35 from the Native American Center rather than out off I-40 near Shawnee like Firelake.

    Here are some blurbs about the two large tribal casinos in Connecticut.
    Mohegan Sun - About Mohegan Sun
    A world at play and a world to its own, Mohegan Sun, created in 1996 by the Mohegan Tribe of Connecticut, is one of the world's most amazing destinations with some of New England's finest dining, hotel accommodations, retail shopping, live entertainment and sporting events. It is also host to the fabulous Kids Quest/Cyber Quest family entertainment facility, a luxurious day spa, convention center and meeting facility, as well as three major entertainment venues with seating from 300 to 10,000. People from across the globe come to see live concerts with some of today's top headliners, along with major sporting events including Mohegan Sun's very own WNBA team, the Connecticut Sun.

    Every turn leads to a new adventure with an indoor 7-story waterfall, the world's largest and most spectacular planetarium dome and the awe-inspiring Wombi Rock, a glowing crystal mountain made of imported stone that serves as the focal point of the Casino of the Sky.

    As a premier destination worldwide, Mohegan Sun includes:

    * More than 300,000 square feet of gaming excitement, including smoke-free areas
    * A 34-story, 1,200-room luxury hotel tower
    * A 20,000 square-foot world-class spa by Elemis
    * The Shops at Mohegan Sun, a 130,000 square-foot retail shopping experience
    * 30 restaurants, food and beverage outlets
    * Three entertainment venues including a 10,000-seat Arena, a 300-seat Cabaret Theatre and 350-seat Wolf Den
    * More than 100,000 square feet of meeting and function space, including one of the largest ballrooms in the northeast
    * A professionally-managed business center
    * 10,000 square-foot indoor pool
    * A 17,500 square-foot outdoor sun terrace
    * 3-story crystal mountain
    * A 55-foot indoor waterfall


    Foxwoods Resort Casino - About Foxwoods
    In 1986 the Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation opened the original high-stakes bingo hall. Today Foxwoods comprises six casinos that collectively offer more than 7,000 slot machines and an incredible 400 tables for 17 different types of table games, including 100 for poker. There's a luxurious, high-tech Race Book, as well as the world's largest Bingo Hall.

    Foxwoods is the largest casino in the world, with 340,000 square feet of gaming space in a complex that covers 4.7 million square feet. More than 40,000 guests visit Foxwoods each day.

    Accommodations at the resort total 1,416 guest rooms and suites, including the 824 room Grand Pequot Tower, 312 room Great Cedar Hotel and the 280 room Two Trees Inn. For conventions and group events, Foxwoods features more than 55,000 square feet of meeting space and 25 conference rooms.

    MGM Grand at Foxwoods has added nearly 2 million square feet of overall space, featuring significantly increased hotel, entertainment, restaurants and gaming venues as well as enhanced corporate retreat, meeting and convention resources.

  18. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuatrodeMayo View Post
    This issue has been discussed in multple threads before...do a search and you will see nearly all the arguments. There is no need to re-hash it again.
    I view this as a copout.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    if nothing else, Foxwoods is a fair piece prettier than most local hotel construction

  20. #20

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Ummm.... So the casinos here don't have to be on tribal land?

  21. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuatrodeMayo View Post
    This issue has been discussed in multple threads before...do a search and you will see nearly all the arguments. There is no need to re-hash it again.
    Hey Cuatro, guess who you're turning into?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Have any of you looked at the results from the MAPS 3 survey? By far, the most requested city upgrade from citizens was mass transit (668 votes). The new convention center received a whopping 40 votes from citizens, which is far down on the list. Is there something we don't know about the importance of convention centers? Or is the city council running their own agenda?

  23. #23

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by krisb View Post
    Have any of you looked at the results from the MAPS 3 survey? By far, the most requested city upgrade from citizens was mass transit (668 votes). The new convention center received a whopping 40 votes from citizens, which is far down on the list. Is there something we don't know about the importance of convention centers? Or is the city council running their own agenda?
    I think the biggest reason is that a new convention center can actually bring in money whereas mass transit is usually a drain on budgets. And a convention center costs much less than an extensive public transit system. I think they should be able to do both though.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    The convention center is to attract larger conventions to get out of towners to come to OKC. The city and convention planners I am sure would consider that more important because it gets tourist dollars and larger conventions have typically more people that spend more money.

    To locals, transit issues will always be more important.

  25. Default Re: Core to Shore Hypothetic Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCMallen View Post
    I view this as a copout.
    Get over yourself.

    If you really wanted to know the answer to your question, you would read the previous threads about it.

    But if you just want to have an internet fight, I dont' have the time.

    Bluedog: I know it can be done well...but Connecticut is a world away from OKC. As for Winstar, a lot less people die when a 707 goes down as compared to a 747 crash...but it is still a fatal plane crash.

    I guess I could live with one one the river. However, how ironic would it be to have a place that celebrates Native American culture across from a indian casio?

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