CAIR protest today at the Capitol

[Nermel]

It was rather interesting coming across a CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) protest today at the state capitol. Plenty of anti Jewish signs, even a few (anti jewish) chants that were made by a few in the group.

Was rather scary seeing how some elements of Oklahoma's population feel. What was covered on the local news, was somewhat sanitized.

[OKCMallen]

I, for one, like seeing the local community paying attention to the world and doing something about it, even if it's an impotent showing.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Or a misguided one.

[bornhere]

What did these anti-Jewish chants and signs say?

[Nermel]

Chants, one reference I did hear to Zionists. Not many in the group were doing that, nor did I want to and ask for a transcript. Was too far to hear word for word. However, the photos at newsok are rather interesting. Swastika and a star of david combined on a poster.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Pairing a swastika with the star of david?

Wow.

[soonerguru]

I'm not sure it was anti-Jewish, so much as anti-Israeli. I think Israel essentially has no choice but to attack, but I do blame the Likud Party in Israel for digging itself in a hole continually. The hardliners' approach has been an abysmal failure.

And yet, the moderate elements in Palestine do not wield the sticks. Arafat was a bit nutty but he did know what would happen if the Palestinians were given the vote. Now we have Hamas in charge, democratically elected in Gaza.

It's a shame this is happening now but there is no easy answer to the conflict. Israel has done a poor job, however, expelling its radical settlers out of the West Bank. Unfortunately, that hurts Israel's credibility.

People wiser than me have pointed out that the Arab street is fairly easily manipulated by corrupt Middle Eastern regimes, who frame every failure as the fault of the West and Israel. Indeed, there are many politicians in our country who try that with racial politics and other nativist polemics. But it would be nice if the average Joe in the Middle East would begin to recognize the failures of their own regimes, first, before supplicating their despair with anti-Western fervor.

The situation only becomes more toxic, and the cynics usually prevail.

[NativeOkie]

"We can forgive you for killing our children, We will never forgive you for making us kill yours. We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."
Golda Mier

[USG '60]

"We can forgive you for killing our children, We will never forgive you for making us kill yours. We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."
Golda Mier

Wow. TRULY profound.

[Kerry]

Muslims attacking Israel, muslims attacking India, muslims attacking "the west", muslims attacking other muslims. Anyone else noticing a pattern? If you take away conflicts involving muslims, who else on this planet is at war with each other?

[bretthexum]

Muslims attacking Israel, muslims attacking India, muslims attacking "the west", muslims attacking other muslims. Anyone else noticing a pattern? If you take away conflicts involving muslims, who else on this planet is at war with each other?

That's a stretch. The radical muslims are a VERY small percentage of all muslims in the world. It's like saying all Christians think god is punishing us for tolerance of gays (ie. Westboro Church and those looney groups).

[soonerguru]

The radical muslims would like nothing more than for the West to declare holy war on muslims. This kind of chaos is what terrorists seek. We don't have to play into it.

[Kerry]

That's a stretch. The radical muslims are a VERY small percentage of all muslims in the world. It's like saying all Christians think god is punishing us for tolerance of gays (ie. Westboro Church and those looney groups).

Fine, we'll do this your way. Radical muslims attacking Israel, radical muslims attacking India, radical muslims attacking "the west", radical muslims attacking other muslims. Anyone else noticing a pattern? If you take away the radical muslims conflicts, who on Earth would be fighting right now?

BTW, please direct me to the muslim groups that are fighting against radical muslim aggression.

[bretthexum]

BTW, please direct me to the muslim groups that are fighting against radical muslim aggression.

The billions that live in peace.

[SOONER8693]

Kerry, I believe you've hit the nail on the head.

[bretthexum]

OK, I give in. All Muslims are evil. Is that what you want to hear?

EDIT: Sorry, I am in a pissy mood. Bad day. I'm just trying to see your point on this whole deal. My neighbor is a Muslim. Of course he doesn't promote violence or killing.

I just don't understand the phrase - BTW, please direct me to the muslim groups that are fighting against radical muslim aggression.

[MadMonk]

Where are all the protesters (Muslim or otherwise) when Hamas is raining rockets down on Israel? As for non-extremist Muslims (especially the leadership, Imams, etc), barring a few exceptions, their silence is deafening.

[Kerry]

OK, I give in. All Muslims are evil. Is that what you want to hear?

EDIT: Sorry, I am in a pissy mood. Bad day. I'm just trying to see your point on this whole deal. My neighbor is a Muslim. Of course he doesn't promote violence or killing.

I just don't understand the phrase - BTW, please direct me to the muslim groups that are fighting against radical muslim aggression.

Wow bretthexum! How blind are you to what goes on in the world? How do you know your muslim neighbor doesn't want to kill you? Just kidding on that last part. I don't know anyone that thinks all muslims are evil. In fact, on a personal level most of them are quite nice (atleast the ones I know). However, there is a very vocal and violent fraction of their religion that is over the top evil. I just don't hear any of the moderate muslims speaking out very much.

The Klu Klux Klan was a violent hate group (and still is) and for many years they operated without fear of being punished for their crimes. It wasn't until other whites stepped up and said enough is enough and put an end to their brand of terrorism. Where is the muslim equivalent? Ask your neighbor how he feels about the current situation in Gaza. You might be shocked by his response.

[soonerguru]

I just don't hear any of the moderate muslims speaking out very much.

That is a good point. The problem is that many Muslims of all persuasions are angry at Israel, and we are perceived as Israel's biggest defender.

Fine. What complicates matters is many of our policies in the middle east have not worked out well for us in the long run, for example, radicalizing the wrong elements, giving arms and training to the wrong elements, etc.

A great example is the Mujahadeen of Afghanistan. We gave them training and munitions to fight off the Soviets. We trained 'em well, with CIA help. Less than a generation later they were forming Al Quaeda.

Also, we prop up brutal regimes in the region, like Saudi Arabia, or the Shah or Iran, or even Saddam, when it benefits us economically. Then, things unravel.

The US is viewed as a big hypocrite on the Arab street. This is not necessarily accurate, but we have done some dumb **** to undermine our own aims, and continue to do dumb ****.

The worst thing we could do as a country is somehow manage to inflame the moderate Muslims and turn them against us by exclaiming that they are murderous fiends. That's not going to really help matters, not to mention it's total bull****.

[bornhere]

May I ask why we have an "Arab street"? We never hear about the "English street" or the "Canadian street" or the "Chinese street." How did the Arabs get to be the only ethnic or national group with its own 'street'?

[Kerry]

LOL bornhere - but what about Chinatown. Here is the problem I see with US foreign policy. We elect new leaders every 2 and 4 years and each has their own agendas on foreign policy. People with a foundation in religion (muslims in this example) don't outlive their faith the way Americans outlive the current ruling party (hope that makes sense). In other words, our foreign policy is dependent on who the President is and it changes every 4 to 8 years. Muslims foreign policy never changes. They have been waring with western Europe and the Jews for 800 years before anyone knew America was even here. We change aliances every 48 months.

[MadMonk]

It's all Obama's fault.
Report: Al-Qaida No. 2 blames Obama for Gaza fight - Yahoo! News

[Midtowner]

That is a good point. The problem is that many Muslims of all persuasions are angry at Israel, and we are perceived as Israel's biggest defender.

Fine. What complicates matters is many of our policies in the middle east have not worked out well for us in the long run, for example, radicalizing the wrong elements, giving arms and training to the wrong elements, etc.

A great example is the Mujahadeen of Afghanistan. We gave them training and munitions to fight off the Soviets. We trained 'em well, with CIA help. Less than a generation later they were forming Al Quaeda.

Also, we prop up brutal regimes in the region, like Saudi Arabia, or the Shah or Iran, or even Saddam, when it benefits us economically. Then, things unravel.

The US is viewed as a big hypocrite on the Arab street. This is not necessarily accurate, but we have done some dumb **** to undermine our own aims, and continue to do dumb ****.

The worst thing we could do as a country is somehow manage to inflame the moderate Muslims and turn them against us by exclaiming that they are murderous fiends. That's not going to really help matters, not to mention it's total bull****.

I agree. Anyone who thinks that moderate Muslims, i.e., educated Muslims somehow think Iran and Hamas are blameless here doesn't know wtf they are talking about.

Sooner, I had just about this exact conversation with a Muslim gentleman today.

The fact is that no one speaks for the moderate Muslims. You could as much appoint a spokesman for that 'group' of people as you could for all of the Midtowners of the world (I'm the only one I know of). Muslims are not a monolithic people. Just like Christians, they have a variety of opinions, some valid and good, some tainted by idiotic religious mumbo-jumbo (just like many of the Christian folks we all know, you know, the folks who actually think the Earth was created in 7 days, etc.).

[Kerry]

Midtowner - CNN has no problem finding a Christian spokesperson, or a conservative spokesperson, a liberal spokesperson, a black spokesperson, or a Hispanic spokesperson. I just never see anyone being held up by the media as a moderate Muslim spokesperson. I also don't see anyone volunteering to be the moderate Muslim spokesperson. Where is the Arab Al Sharpton, the Arab Ann Coulter, the Arab Bob Beckel, the Arab Jerry Falwell. Sharpton, Coulter, Beckel, Falwell represent large groups of people who didn't elect them to any postion of authority. The truth is if anyone from the Muslim community spoke out and tried to stop radical Islam they would be killed. So most just sit there and keep their mouth shut while the radical element of their religion goes about bombing everything that moves.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Just like Christians, they have a variety of opinions, some valid and good, some tainted by idiotic religious mumbo-jumbo (just like many of the Christian folks we all know, you know, the folks who actually think the Earth was created in 7 days, etc.).

Eh...been called worse.