Crossroads Mall

[Kerry]

Why did they put a landfill so close to town?

[bluedogok]

I believe the landfill came long after the mall opened, maybe someone more familiar with the area can confirm.. That area to the east of Crossroads has always been more industrial than any other use.

[Jesseda]

and why put a landfill next to prime property where two major interstates cross, i can understand if they put it somewhere a little east of sooner road or something back then, but why so close to the city and major property? thats why there is so much open land off eastern, no one wants it

[CuatrodeMayo]

I've been working on a class (individual) project to tackle the redevelopment of Crossroads into a TOD. Everything you see below is hypothetical. I'm also working on a SketchUp version to better illustrate massing, setbacks, layout, and overall site design. It's not 100% yet, but I felt it was close enough to post on here.

What does everyone think about the sites potential for TOD?

Cool. Good start. Like was said before, give the axis from the rail station and the angle of the park actual significance by connecting them...otherwise they make little sense. Then, celebrate the place where the diagonal axis crosses east-west axis. That would be an opportunity to create a city center, which is needed in this type of development.

While a community like this tends toward being a sustainable type development, what happens to the mall? My guess is that is goes in the landfill next door which is not beneficial to anybody. My point is this: It would be even more sustainable if you reused the existing structure and incorporated it into your site plan.

Besides, anybody can lay out a town on an empty site, but it takes some creativity to do it with what is already there=)

[Jesseda]

well the mall is tall enough and wide open spaces inside the mall, to me its big enough to add a enclosed year round theme park, kinda like the one in circus circus.. i can seea roller coaster in the middle and a ferris wheel. In the department stores just cut out the second floor and you have big spaces all inside the mall. Just a thought.

[PLANSIT]

Cool. Good start. Like was said before, give the axis from the rail station and the angle of the park actual significance by connecting them...otherwise they make little sense. Then, celebrate the place where the diagonal axis crosses east-west axis. That would be an opportunity to create a city center, which is needed in this type of development.

While a community like this tends toward being a sustainable type development, what happens to the mall? My guess is that is goes in the landfill next door which is not beneficial to anybody. My point is this: It would be even more sustainable if you reused the existing structure and incorporated it into your site plan.

Besides, anybody can lay out a town on an empty site, but it takes some creativity to do it with what is already there=)

Well if you look closely, the existing axis (shopping district) is not a boulevard, it is a pedestrian through-way. Very wide and open, conducive to walking and biking. Think 16th St. in Denver. I originally looked at a direct through-way from the park to the train station, but the linear corridor it created was destructive to the road grid that best fit the site.

We don't need a city center, we have one, it's called downtown and if this were ever considered it would only be a train trip away. However, the development does have a very *Main St/City Center* feel throughout, especially in the area designated *shopping district* where many buildings would climb 4 floors with minimal setbacks.

Re: re-use of the mall.

While some facades and materials could be reused, there is no need for such a massive reuse of the entire mall. Reusing existing large format big box retail space (i.e. Dillards, Macy's) in its current state is nearly impossible. If you can show me a case where a mall has been reused as a mixed-use development as it currently stands, I am all ears, but from my experience there is no such place. The only thing even close maybe St. Louis' downtown mall, but even that is different.

For a better idea of this kind of development in practice check out Belmar in Denver. Once a large indoor mall, now a sustainable (hopefully) mixed-used community oriented development.

Here is a dated aerial. Surface parking will eventually make way for garage parking and future mixed-use.

[oneforone]

Why did they put a landfill so close to town?

Actually, Oklahoma City has three landfills inside the city limits. There is one off NE 23rd and Sooner, I-40 and Rockwell and of course the one off Bryant. I thank when they built the landfills they did not anticipate rapid growth. Not mention when the landfills were planned OKC was mostly a rural city.

[jbrown84]

This landfill could be closed and "grassed-over". I read about one on the east coast somewhere that is a park.

It seems something like this would have to happen in order for a successful mixed-use redevelopment to happen.

[Jesseda]

where do you think they got the land for the oakland california airport.

[bluedogok]

where do you think they got the land for the oakland california airport.

NYC LaGuardia and Tokyo's Narita airports are both built on landfills. They redevelop landfill areas all the time in other parts of the country.

[Joe Kimball]

Candlestick Park is built on a landfill (not that this is a success story).

The deer from which my summer sausage was processed probably grazed on one; who knows?

[CCOKC]

Dell here in OKC was built on an old landfill. Do you remember all the months of soil remediation done on that spot before they started building?

[Jesseda]

a landfill so close to a river wow what was okc thinking at the time

[kevinpate]

well, it was pretty much a river in name only in the pre-MAPS days.

[bluepickle]

It wasn't a full on landfill, it was more like a place where the city disposed of concrete, brush and other debris.

[jbrown84]

well, it was pretty much a river in name only in the pre-MAPS days.

No, it was a river.

[BabyBoomerSooner]

This landfill could be closed and "grassed-over". I read about one on the east coast somewhere that is a park.

It seems something like this would have to happen in order for a successful mixed-use redevelopment to happen.

I was wondering, too, if it could be "re-habbed". At what point does a landfill become FULL? That thing's gotta rival Black Mesa for tallest point in Oklahoma!

[PLANSIT]

Cap the landfill, build bike and hiking trails all over it, and tap the methane it produces to partially power the TOD over at Crossroads.

[Jesseda]

20 years from now that dump by crossroads will have multi million dollar homes on it, ((((best view of downtown okc from mountain view estates, be the one of only a couple families to live on a mountain in oklahoma city, have everyone look up to you and you look down on them, be the best have the best buy a home in mountain view)))))... i can see it now lol

[grantgeneral78]

MAKE CROSSROADS A CASINO!! talk about a money maker.

[bluedogok]

I didn't know quite where to put these but they can kind of apply to Crossroads if redeveloped. Here are a few interesting articles about redevelopment and densification from Planetizen which is a site dedicated to planning.

Planetizen.com - From Edge-City to Real City talks about taking what has been a traditional Washington D.C. suburb (Tysons Corner, Virginia) to a more walkable city.

Planetizen.com - The Urban Shortcomings of 'L.A. Live' discusses the lifestyle center that isn't designed to be a good neighbor. How it is just its own self-contained center and "turns its back" on Downtown LA.

[jbrown84]

That thing's gotta rival Black Mesa for tallest point in Oklahoma!

Hardly. Have you seen Mt. Scott?

[kevinpate]

> gotta rival Black Mesa for tallest point in Oklahoma

Black Mesa does not tower above the surrounding terrain, certainly not like Scott down near Lawton, or Buffalo or Kiamichi near Tuskahoma and Big Cedar, nor Cavanal or Sugarloaf near Poteau.

Black Mesa is the highest point in Oklahoma even though it rises only about 500 feet above the surrounding terrain. However, the base terrain in the NW corner of the panhandle is a greater elevation than any of the peaks elsewhere in the state.

[scootinger]

While some facades and materials could be reused, there is no need for such a massive reuse of the entire mall. Reusing existing large format big box retail space (i.e. Dillards, Macy's) in its current state is nearly impossible. If you can show me a case where a mall has been reused as a mixed-use development as it currently stands, I am all ears, but from my experience there is no such place. The only thing even close maybe St. Louis' downtown mall, but even that is different.

That is actually what is planned with the Springfield Mall in northern Virginia: they are planning building the site into a mixed-use development, while (surprisingly) keeping the majority of the existing indoor mall. I was actually inside this mall a couple of years ago and it was in similar shape to Crossroads then (but Crossroads has declined a lot in the past couple years.) Regardless, I'm not sure if this type of redevelopment is possible with Crossroads...at least not in the form of a retail use. I know there is the Eastgate Metroplex in Tulsa that is being reused primarily for office uses, but I'm not sure if it is as high-profile of a development as what everyone wants to see Crossroads become.

However, if the Crossroads Mall complex were to be demolished, I do think that it would be possible and very beneficial to reuse at least one of the existing anchor buildings. There are many possible uses for these buildings - not just retail space! I read about a mall not too long ago (forgot where it was) that was redeveloped into a TOD; they demolished the entire mall with the exception of one of the department stores, which was redeveloped into a community center.

[jbrown84]

If they were to keep one of the anchor buildings, I'd go with the 3-story Dillards space, which has the best exterior.

I remember being very impressed as a kid that it had 3 floors.