Broadway Wine Merchants

[BailJumper]

I was merely pointing out that if he is counting on those living within 1 mile of his business to make him profitable he better think again. I went by twice today and didn't see a single customer either time.

I hope to stop in Friday. I always love finding good wines for under $30 bottle. Hopefully they can point out a few treasures.

[PLANSIT]

Went in yesterday and picked up some beer. The guy running the place was awesome and made it clear that directly he was not trying to compete with Byron's. He was after a somewhat different demographic. Now go support it.

[SouthsideSooner]

Went in yesterday and picked up some beer. The guy running the place was awesome and made it clear that directly he was not trying to compete with Byron's. He was after a somewhat different demographic. Now go support it.

Of course he's not trying to compete with Byrons, he can't. Anytime the "demographic" you're after is the guy who'll pay more money for the exact same product than he would pay down the street, you're in for a steep uphill climb.

His only hope is to attract enough customers who will shop there for the convenience rather than go another mile because he'll never do the volumn needed to compete on price and selection.

The fact that there are little liquor stores on every corner is testament that its possible to survive doing this but like I said, I hope he's doing it more as a hobby because he's not likely to ever make much money.

If you choose to support it, that's great...but most people are going to go where they can save money and get the best deal. It's called being a smart shopper.

[Pete]

His only hope is to attract enough customers who will shop there for the convenience rather than go another mile because he'll never do the volumn needed to compete on price and selection.

I, personally, never stepped foot in Byron's yet bought lots of wine when I lived in OKC.

I strongly prefer a nicer environment with good service and I'm sure I'm not the only one, especially when it comes to the type of people that like good wine.

Frankly, there are plenty of options in OKC for the Wal-Mart loving, price-is-the-only-thing-that-matters crowd. We need MORE places like this and I hope people support it.

[cherrylane]

Well said Pete! I've been to Broadway Wines several times since its opening and am hooked...I will never set foot in Byron's again. It's a nice environment and David, the owner is great. This is the place to go if you want to get educated on wines AND with reasonable prices. I can't wait until they start having wine tastings!

[PLANSIT]

Of course he's not trying to compete with Byrons, he can't. Anytime the "demographic" you're after is the guy who'll pay more money for the exact same product than he would pay down the street, you're in for a steep uphill climb.

His only hope is to attract enough customers who will shop there for the convenience rather than go another mile because he'll never do the volumn needed to compete on price and selection.

The fact that there are little liquor stores on every corner is testament that its possible to survive doing this but like I said, I hope he's doing it more as a hobby because he's not likely to ever make much money.

If you choose to support it, that's great...but most people are going to go where they can save money and get the best deal. It's called being a smart shopper.

Actually, the beer I bought was nearly identical in price to Byron's. So...

[SouthsideSooner]

I, personally, never stepped foot in Byron's yet bought lots of wine when I lived in OKC.

I strongly prefer a nicer environment with good service and I'm sure I'm not the only one, especially when it comes to the type of people that like good wine.

Frankly, there are plenty of options in OKC for the Wal-Mart loving, price-is-the-only-thing-that-matters crowd. We need MORE places like this and I hope people support it.

The thing I think is funny, is people clamoring that we need more retail in the downtown area when the largest wine and spirit retailer in the state is within a mile and a half of the new housing going in, in the Triangle District.

As I read Pete's post, the thing that jumped out at me was his perception of Byron's without ever having been there. Is it because it's in what is viewed a rough area? Is it because it has the reputation that a lot of lower income people shop there?

Byron's has about 8000 sf of retail floor space with about $750,000.00 in inventory on the floor. They have professional managers in every dept. that are very knowledgeable about the products in their dept. including a very knowledgeable wine manager. There are sales rep's representing the various brands in there for most of the day, everyday.

They have a better selection of wine in every price category than anybody in OKC with the exception of the Cellar and they blow the Cellar away on wine prices.

To characterize them as having nothing more than low prices is wrong. When it comes to price, selection and customer service, Byrons is hard to beat in OKC.

I have no dog in this fight. One of the things I really like about this site is that there are some very knowledgeable people posting on the interworking of what's going on in OKC. This is the subject that I am very knowledgeable in.

[SouthsideSooner]

Actually, the beer I bought was nearly identical in price to Byron's. So...

What was it and how much did it cost?

[BailJumper]

WOW - gotta love the wine snobs. I find it funny that some people put Bryon's customers in a "demographic." I shop there when I'm in the area and I know many quite wealthy people that work downtown and live in Edmond that make a point to shop at Byron's. Of course, you also have your trash of all ethnic backgrounds who shop there too (hence the armed guards). As stated before, liquor is a consumable (both ways). I'd have to question the smarts of anyone who would pay more to buy the exact same product when the retailer's are only a mile apart.

While I'll stop in to the new place (maybe this afternoon), if he's more than 10% higher in prices, then it's a no brainer and I'll keep supporting Byron's.

[PLANSIT]

Good for you.

I think Pete was talking about Byron's being the Wal-Mart of liquor stores in that by being so large and keeping others out of the market, it has lost some appeal to those that prefer smaller mom & pop shops. Remember, one of the big themes on this site is redevelopment of true urban spaces and places in and around downtown. This store only adds to the vitality and sustainability of the area.

[Pete]

As I read Pete's post, the thing that jumped out at me was his perception of Byron's without ever having been there. Is it because it's in what is viewed a rough area? Is it because it has the reputation that a lot of lower income people shop there?

Didn't say they only thing they had to offer was low prices.

The reason I never went in was because 1) it looks like every cheap liquor store in town, only larger and 2) they used to (and still may) have armed security people in the parking lot (and maybe even on the roof?) during busier times.

Not exactly the type experience I want when shopping for some nice bottles of wine and I'd gladly pay a little more to avoid such a place.

[PLANSIT]

WOW - gotta love the wine snobs. I find it funny that some people put Bryon's customers in a "demographic." I shop there when I'm in the area and I know many quite wealthy people that work downtown and live in Edmond that make a point to shop at Byron's. Of course, you also have your trash of all ethnic backgrounds who shop there too (hence the armed guards). As stated before, liquor is a consumable (both ways). I'd have to question the smarts of anyone who would pay more to buy the exact same product when the retailer's are only a mile apart.

While I'll stop in to the new place (maybe this afternoon), if he's more than 10% higher in prices, then it's a no brainer and I'll keep supporting Byron's.

What are talking about? No one is trashing any ethnic background or demographic. I've shopped at Byron's since I moved here. The "demographic" in question is that of the urban, pedestrian oriented, and community minded consumer. From my brief conversation with the owner, this seems to be one area he is targeting. Although, I'm sure he will take any customers he can get.

[PLANSIT]

What was it and how much did it cost?

Breckenridge Brew Christmas Ale @ ~$7.50

[SouthsideSooner]

Breckenridge Brew Christmas Ale @ ~$7.50

I agree that that is a good price and would be close to Byrons price. The wholesale price of Breckenridge Brew Christmas Ale is $26.69 a case. If you paid 7.50 a six pack, then he made 11%.

If he could manage to do a half million dollars in sales in his first year, in that location, that would be an outstanding start. If the 11% profit margin you paid is indicative of his prices storewide, his gross profit would be about 55 grand, which after expenses can't possibly be much more than break even, before he pays himself a dime.

See my point?

[SouthsideSooner]

Didn't say they only thing they had to offer was low prices.

The reason I never went in was because 1) it looks like every cheap liquor store in town, only larger and 2) they used to (and still may) have armed security people in the parking lot (and maybe even on the roof?) during busier times.

Not exactly the type experience I want when shopping for some nice bottles of wine and I'd gladly pay a little more to avoid such a place.

If that's really the way you feel, then you would probably want to avoid most of intercity Oklahoma City all together.

Which is fine, there are lots of people in Edmond that feel the same way you do.

[SouthsideSooner]

Doesn't exactly look like a "hell hole" to me...

[PLANSIT]

I agree that that is a good price and would be close to Byrons price. The wholesale price of Breckenridge Brew Christmas Ale is $26.69 a case. If you paid 7.50 a six pack, then he made 11%.

If he could manage to do a half million dollars in sales in his first year, in that location, that would be an outstanding start. If the 11% profit margin you paid is indicative of his prices storewide, his gross profit would be about 55 grand, which after expenses can't possibly be much more than break even, before he pays himself a dime.

See my point?

Yep, that's why I'm going to go there as much as possible, even if it means I become an alcoholic .

Even if I did pay more than Byron's, that's ok too. It's the same reason I go to "The Store" on Sheridan. Yeah, his prices are higher than Wal-mart and he only stocks a handful of things I need on a regular basis, but he brings a little convenience to the BT/DD/DT area, and incidentally adds vitality. I'd rather he have my money than Wal-mart (disclaimer: I do shop at the Wal for groceries).

The whole reason we are even talking about this liquor store is because of its location. Liquors stores open up all the time, without a word, but they are in BFE part of some strip center. This place is unique, it's the closest to downtown and it's a mile from one of the largest in the state. Maybe the guy's business model isn't ideal, but at least he's going to try and for that alone I'll give him the few dollars I may have saved driving to Byron's.

[Pete]

If that's really the way you feel, then you would probably want to avoid most of intercity Oklahoma City all together.

Which is fine, there are lots of people in Edmond that feel the same way you do.

You clearly know nothing about me (if you did you'd realize how absurd these comments are) and I would suggest you get off the personal tack and stay on the subject.


The point being there is room in any decent sized city for all types of retailers. People chose stores for all types of reasons, not just price.

And frankly, OKC has plenty of the discount-type places and not enough alternatives.

[jbrown84]

Doesn't exactly look like a "hell hole" to me...

Corrugated metal roof, low ceilings, florescent lighting, cheap rubber tile floor...

I've shopped there occasionally, but as long as something closer has what I'm looking for (99% of the time), I wouldn't bother to go to Byron's. It's like an outdated supermarket, right down to the 30 year old register lines.

Why are you so defensive about this anyway?

[foodiefan]

not to open up a discussion of the rights/wrongs of our liquor laws. . . but isn't there a fairly regimented pricing structure at both the wholesale and retail level?? When you compare prices across the board, Byron's DOES usually have the best prices, but it's not by much.

[metro]

Doesn't exactly look like a "hell hole" to me...

For what "Byron" makes a year, and especially being right at the gateway to the state capitol, he sure could clean up with his property and spruce it up a bit.

[SouthsideSooner]

I'm not being defensive. I'm just taking part in a discussion and giving my opinion.

Byron is my competitor. I own one of those stores that are much nicer that Pete would prefer shopping in.

I do however have a tremendous amount of respect for Byron and the way he's been able to dominate a segment of retail in this state for a half a century. I've certainly learned a lot from him from observing and emulating.

Sorry if I upset anyone.

[jbrown84]

You didn't upset me. And clearly you know what you're talking about here, but I'm going to have to go with Pete.

For what "Byron" makes a year, and especially being right at the gateway to the state capitol, he sure could clean up with his property and spruce it up a bit.

Completely agree.

[BailJumper]

The point being there is room in any decent sized city for all types of retailers. People chose stores for all types of reasons, not just price.

Maybe - but would you like to be reminded of the DOZENS of businesses that have opened and then failed in the BT, DT area - I guess they unique'd themselves right out of business.

[SouthsideSooner]

For what "Byron" makes a year, and especially being right at the gateway to the state capitol, he sure could clean up with his property and spruce it up a bit.

The plans are drawn up and I have seen them for a brand new store built on the propery with the warehouse space underground beneath the retail space.

I have no idea about a timeline.

Byron is getting very old. I don't know if it will happen before he dies.