Super Maps

[mranderson]

I proposed a super maps to bring together the things Oklahoma City needs, and Patrick ran with it a bit. Here are some starter details.

The Super Maps could be a 15 to 20 year tax of 1.5 % (thanks Patrick) to fund some long term projects. They are as follows.

1. City beautification. All neighborhoods would get funds by grant procedures to plant trees, clean the area, etc.

2. Rapid/communter transit known as CORT (Central Oklahoma Rapid Transit). A commuter rail, called Metrorail, would be included to all suburbs as far as Purcell, Guthrie, Seminole, and El Reno.

3. A larger terminal at Will Rogers. This may be needed in the short term, however, if 20 or so gates set empty for a while, that is fine.

4. Fairgrounds rebuild. Rebuild nearly ALL buildings because the current ones look like (well, you know).

5. Heartland Castle. The retractable domed stadium holding 60,000 or more people.

Any thoughts or additions?

[metro]

Good idea as far as beautification and CORT. I would subtract Fairgrounds since they just passed the Hotel tax for that. The Heartland Castle, I would take off for now, when demand warrants we will get a larger stadium. I think light rail is the MAJOR thing this town needs for growth and population density. Also I think the distances are too far out, especially in the short run. Maybe Norman to Edmond , Yukon to MWC for now. This is what I see to be more realistic in the near future

[Pete]

Great ideas, all of them.

Can we add the cost of relocating the co-op?

Also, perhaps it's time to consider some development incentives for the Oklahoma River?

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Lemme re-do it for you.


Super MAPS:

1. Light/commuter rail, connected OU, Edmond, Downtown, and Will Rogers. Light rail to traverse Bricktown, the Arts District, and Downtown. To be completed by 2015.

2. Iniciatives to highrise developers WITHIN the confines of greater Downtown OKC and the 5 districts that make up Downtown.

3. Construct new college football hall of fame in Downtown OKC.

4. The Riverside District will be south of I 40, and will eventually also have light rail, and become a part of downtown. The main improvements needed will be new landscaping and scenic bridges along the Oklahoma River.

5. Construct the new Heartland Plaza, a 100 foot tall fountain in a courtyard style park.



Oh, and I liked the name of the arena!

[Nuclear_2525]

2. Iniciatives to highrise developers WITHIN the confines of greater Downtown OKC and the 5 districts that make up Downtown.

Expand on that a little. I think OKC needs to have many many incentives and maybe spend another large chunk of money to get more districts in downtown going. I think if there was quality urban development encircling the business district, the density needed for Light Rail would come and then there would actually be a reason to have light rail instead of just putting it in to try to get the density needed. I think incentives to high rise developers is one of the best ideas I've heard yet. Again this needs to be in districts all around downtown OKC and also along the river.

I think OKC needs to go into the Arts District, develop a master plan and start some awesome things there. I'm thinking a very expensive, world-renowned architect designed opera house. Something that would make Dallas's new one look like trash. Many other cool things, like incentives for Art Lofts would be awesome too. IMO the coolest cities are the cities that are really artsy.

As far as building a new stadium, I think first the Ford Center could use an extra 10,000 seats. Also, add a third deck and bowl seating to Bricktown Park and bring the capacity of it up. Then maybe in 30 years or so, OKC can try and attract an NFL team.

This may sound stupid, and I know OKC could never pass a MAPS just for downtown, but the suburbs and suburban OKC is not what is going to attract people to the city. IMO if OKC would landscape the insterstates and clean up downtown, then spend every dime available on different new and hip entertainment for downtown, then you would have something to attract people. Is Portland known for its suburban areas? IMO all the suburban areas are for is for the people to live who support the core. So make the interstates look nice to get people to downtown, then have enough entertainment and shopping to keep them downtown, and you have a very attractive city.

[okcpulse]

How about incentives for Six Flags to relocate White Water Bay from the western industrial zone to Frontier City's current location. Combining the two parks would make a great Oklahoma theme park.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Ha ha. Yeah, they really need to crack down on blue collar crap off of I 40.

But then again, the older part of Bethany is blue collar, and somewhere it is no collar.

Spending all money on downtown is an awful plan, b/c our entire city would go to waste. Here's this: screw people that have families, screw educating their children, and force them to live in a gay bar district in a previously conservative city, that never even had problems with gay bashing, and making everyone wear designer clothes so as not to offend the artist types?

Instead of Metropolitan Area Projects, we'll call it something more politically correct and artsy, how does Stagecenter Relightenment sound?

[Nuclear_2525]

I wasn't saying to Disregard the rest of the city. All I was saying is that instead of spending a ton of money on an area that is going to go to waste as sprawl happens, put it in an area that the city can actually maintain. There is already millions being spent in these other areas, and the city still can't maintain them, so instead of dumping more money into those areas where it wont help, use it wisely.

I just think giving money to neighborhoods so they can plant trees etc. is stupid. The developer needs to do that on his/her own money. If the city wants this, then the city should pass better landscaping codes. I just have a feeling that giving these developers money to spend on landscaping isn't going to make them put in more landscaping, they are just going to spend less of their money and use the city money instead.

[metro]

I agree with most of the posts but what does

But then again, the older part of Bethany is blue collar, and somewhere it is no collar.

have to do with anything?? other parts of Bethany are strictly white collar such as Brownstone, some subdivisions around lake overholser and a few other neighborhoods, sounds pretty similar to southside, norman, moore, yukon, warr acres and practically every other suburb to me?

[mranderson]

Since I made this a wide topic, I will discuss the need for commuter rail as well as rapid transit.

First. Commuter. For those that think Shawnee, El Reno, Purcell and Guthrie are too far. Here is a reason to disagree.

My gal pal, Janet, lives in Shawnee. She drives a Dodge pickup that has a fairly large engine in it. She works near Baptist, so she commutes five days a week in rush hour both ways. From my house to hers is right at 30 miles, add another 15 to Baptist. Her truck eats at least 50.00 a week in gas, and maybe more. That is 2,500.00 a year in gas to and from work. So. Here is why commuter rail would be good for people like her... And there are a lot of them.

She takes Metrorail from Shawnee, parking in the park and ride for nothing with a metrorail pass. Then she pays a 5.00 fee for the train because she has a discount pass for frequent use. The pass could cost as little as 50.00 per month for unlimited use. She changes to the CORT red clay colored line to the Baptist station. Instead of paying 50.00 a week for gas, she pays maybe 50.00 every three or so weeks by keeping her truck in Shawnee, and 50.00 a month for a rail pass.

Another lady friend Ronda. She lives in Warr Acres and works in Yukon. She drives a truck similar to Janet's. Her gas is almost the same as Janet's. So, Ronda buys a discount pass with a deeper discount because she is a single Mother who makes very little money. She is a hair stylist. So. She takes the CORT orange and black line from Baptist to Yukon. That costs her maybe 2.00 each way. A lot of savings.

There is a third. Bren. She lives and works near the Hertz financial center where Dell is currently located. She is traveling to California on the same day as me, so she is an infrequent user of CORT and even less of Metrorail. She pays 5.00 each way to Will Rogers. There are several like her, but most would fall either in Janet's category or Ronda's category.

Janet could be anyone living in Shawnee, El Reno, Guthrie, Purcell, or any number of other cities or towns in the metro. Ronda could be even more people.

This acomplishes many things. It saves the commuter money... A lot of it. It keeps unneccessary vehicles off the freeways, thus makes the traffic run smoother. And the pollution. With the avent of electricity, it is cleaner.

So. Yes. Super Maps needs to include both CORT and Metrorail.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Bull.

[mranderson]

Bull.

Please explain your comment.

[okcpulse]

Nuclear2525, downtown is already cleaned up. The areas aournd downtown, except for Midtown, need to be cleaned up.

[Patrick]

Please explain your comment.

I second that.

[metro]

I third that. Also, mranderson, I totally agree with you on expanding out towards Guthrie, Shawnee, El Reno, etc but only in time. If we focus on the majority of the population we can then expand outwards as allocated funds allow. Start small but think big mentality. Little by little. Look at the big cities, Dallas, Atlanta, etc. They always and still are started with the core and moved further out into the suburbs. I know because I lived in Atlanta at the time. I doubt Shawnee, El Reno, and especially financially strapped Guthrie could afford to cooperate in these efforts for awhile.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

First. Commuter. For those that think Shawnee, El Reno, Purcell and Guthrie are too far. Here is a reason to disagree.

I understand Shawnee has recently been pulled from our CMSA, and is it's own micropolitan area.

She drives a truck similar to Janet's. Her gas is almost the same as Janet's. So, Ronda buys a discount pass with a deeper discount because she is a single Mother who makes very little money. She is a hair stylist. So. She takes the CORT orange and black line from Baptist to Yukon. That costs her maybe 2.00 each way. A lot of savings.

Do you mean Baptist Hospital? Yes, I agree that Warr Acres (Though the wealthier parts) and Yukon could support a commuter rail line, especially since I live and work in the beautiful city of Yukon, and wouldn't mind taking a commuter rail line to work instead of the Kilpatrick Turnpike.

She is traveling to California on the same day as me, so she is an infrequent user of CORT and even less of Metrorail. She pays 5.00 each way to Will Rogers. There are several like her, but most would fall either in Janet's category or Ronda's category.

I would surely say that the Northwest Expressway is deserving of a commuter rail. But your point you wanted to proove was that Shawnee was?

[HOT ROD]

Actually, Shawnee is part of the CMSA but no longer part of the original MSA, for the reason you state.

Metropolitan Statistical Area includes the city and suburbs that are more or less dependent upon the central city. All of us would agree that Guthrie to Norman and El Reno to E OK county would make up Oklahoma City's Metropolitan Statistical Area. In the old days, it used to include Shawnee and Pottowattomie County as well.

Recently, the Census recognized that many more little cities have their own MSA but would still be dependent upon the central big city. They came up with CSA, Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Areas (or CSA for short) where more than one MSA would makeup the region. As you noted, Shawnee was observed as not being as dependent upon Oklahoma City as say El Reno, Guthrie, or Norman. So, they dropped Shawnee from OKC MSA and created their own (as Pottowattomie County). And the new Oklahoma City-Shawnee CMSA includes both the new OKC MSA and Shawnee MSA.

In a way, I think this was sort of stupid because the Shawnee MSA is only about 75,000 people or so while the OKC MSA is 1,180,000. The Oklahoma City-Shawnee CSA is 1,250,000 but so was the original OKC MSA (which included El Reno to Shawnee and Norman to Guthrie). Why did they change it? Shawnee is not that happening, is it? I would have figured Norman would have gotten an MSA over Shawnee.

But anyways, that is how it stands - OKC MSA plus Shawnee MSA gives us the OKC-Shawnee CSA and is the new designation for the populous of Central Oklahoma!

Continue the Renaissance!

[Midtowner]

Lemme re-do it for you.


Super MAPS:

1. Light/commuter rail, connected OU, Edmond, Downtown, and Will Rogers. Light rail to traverse Bricktown, the Arts District, and Downtown. To be completed by 2015.

2. Iniciatives to highrise developers WITHIN the confines of greater Downtown OKC and the 5 districts that make up Downtown.

3. Construct new college football hall of fame in Downtown OKC.

4. The Riverside District will be south of I 40, and will eventually also have light rail, and become a part of downtown. The main improvements needed will be new landscaping and scenic bridges along the Oklahoma River.

5. Construct the new Heartland Plaza, a 100 foot tall fountain in a courtyard style park.



Oh, and I liked the name of the arena!

College football Hall of Fame?

Already exists.

http://collegefootball.org/

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

I apoligize for the personal attacks. I had no idea that Janet was a REAL person.

I was going along Mr. Anderson's story as if he was trying to mention the types of people that would be using light rail, and while it might be helpful to them, I personally don't think that there are enough people out there in the first place to support something as MAJOR as commuter rail, and then I don't really think that people in Shawnee are interested in fancy stuff like commuter rail--nuff said?

Many people in Shawnee work at Tinker, a short 15 minute commute down I 40, and many of them work in Shawnee as well. Shawnee is a self sustaining micropolitan area.