Forbes Best Places for Business

[Luke]

OKC is ranked 32 of 150 big cities. Tulsa is 99.

http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/...&datatype=Misc

Pretty cool. Let's shoot for the top 10 though.

[mranderson]

If Oklahoma City is getting all these high rankings, then why are corporations using us as a bargining chip and a spring board to other places, and letting us stagnate instead of grow?

I do not question any of my fellow OKCTalkers, however, I do question the polls and their methods of calculation. If they were bonefide, do you really think most of these companies would pass Oklahoma City in favor of Tulsa or more often, Texas?

[Patrick]

I find it interesting that in regards to crime rate we rank 141. That's horrible!

I'm not surprised to find that our biggest assets are "cost of doing business" and "cost of living". mranderson, I think that explains why corporations aren't coming here. For things like culture and entertainment (AKA quality of life) and education, we don't even come close. Those are the main things corporations are looking for.

So, in saying that, I'm trying to point out that the only reason why we rank as high as we do, is because the two factors I listed above lift us up to that ranking. In a sense, our ranking isn't really a compliment to our city.

All of the growing cities on the list typically have results that are the exact reverse of ours. Most have culture, entertainmentand, and education that rank high, while cost of living and cost of doing business typically rank low. Why? Growing cities usually have a higher demand for goods and services, and homes, so the cost of living is higher.

[Diogenes]

For things like culture and entertainment (AKA quality of life) and education, we don't even come close. Those are the main things corporations are looking for.

This is exactly why Richard Florida was invited to visit both Tulsa and Oklahoma City to give his suggestions about how our cities may become more attractive to large corporations. Of course, Florida and his theories of the 'creative class' all revolve around enhancing culture and education.

[floater]

You know it doesn't seem like OKC has such a crime problem. But I think most of it is property crimes, not violent ones like murder or rape. Or it could be in the level of reporting.

Yeah, I think the low costs of business and living are responsible for our high ranking. But you know, this is a business magazine; high rankings on this list do not necessarily mean you have a better quality of life. The OKC job market has been steady, but I still think most of the jobs we've gained have been lower-paying. If a rise in household incomes/pay accompanied what gains in jobs we've had, that would be better.

I concur with those who've said that the defiency in culture/education is keeping companies away. The sad thing is, OKC's metro includes Norman, arguably OK's intellectual center. To have OK's collegetown and still be 77th in college education is frustrating.

The chamber's Project Next is a step in addressing this problem, and I hope the "MAPS III" wish list that comes out of it will produce effective vehicles to solve it.

[HOT ROD]

One way OKC could "quickly" move up the ranking in all of these ratings is by improving its crime rate!

I know big cities always have high crime rates, it just happens when lots of people live close together. But our crime rate is the reason why we dont have high marks in quality of life! Who wants to open a new theatre company when everyone in the city is way too scared to come out at night?

I too question the education ratings. OKC has OU, OU-Health, OCU, UCO, and SNU as major universities in its metro area. It also has a number of Community Colleges and a hand-ful of professional international universities (like Devry, ITT Tech, City U). FYI, Seattle has UW, UW-Med, SU, and SPU as major universities but has a ton more Community Colleges and professional international universities. OKC has more major universities than Seattle, so why doesnt OKC have a higher ranking?

Since Seattle does, then it must be because of the Community Colleges and Professional Universities and schools. Well, OKC could easily pick up the pace there. The expansion of the downtown consortium, addition of Devry and City U among others, more community colleges than just OCCC. If these additions were taken, then OKC should rank up with Seattle because they would have similar amount of schools; and OKC would still have more 4-year major univs.

Maps III anyone? focus: crime reduction and higher education!

Probably moves us into the top 10, because quality of life would soon follow as the intelectual and creative classes would demand it; just like they did in Austin and Madison!

Honestly, I would hardly agree that Madison, WI is the bastion of urban life but their education and crime components must be doing what our cost of living does for us - negate the lower rankings. Of course, people care more about crime than they do about low cost of living; so Madison receives #1 and OKC receives #31.

Lets join Madison, we are a bigger city so imagine if we had the ed and crime reduction they have? We would definitely move into the top 10; which by itself lends OKC more attractive for corporations and residents.

[floater]

Well, it's not just having institutes of higher learning, it's also keeping graduates here. So I agree, we have to reduce crime and offer great, stimulating opportunities for new graduates, as well as offering them a quality of life they desire.

It's just as simple as that

[Patrick]

For the quality of life issue, we again need to focus part of MAPS III on city beautification, improvement of the fair grounds, improvement and expansion of city parks, etc.

For the education isues, your plans make a lot of sense.

not quie sure how we could improve the crime issue. I think we're really getting a bad wrap there. I suppose if you improve education, crime will go down. It's the old saying, "would you rather spend money on prisons or school houses?" I think 10 years from now, we'll start seeing the effects of MAPS for Kids as well. That should really help imrpove things....I know it won't improve things from a higher education perspective, but at least it will encourage more corporations to move here. OUr public school system is one of the first things corporations look for. Corporate employees don't want to send their children to the present day OKC Public School district. Hopefully that will change here in a few years.

[okcpulse]

Quite frankly, we can argue this until we're blue in the face. Oklahoma City could put millions upon millions of dollars into better education, attracting high-paying companies and the like and it will make little difference because of Oklahoma's image.

I've traveled this country quite a bit and there is one thing I noticed when people ask me where I'm from. They all seem to think we are all farmers. I spoke with a spanish teacher while I was in New Jersey 6 years ago. She was so fascinated to meet someone from Oklahoma (as if there are so few of us). She asked, "so what do a lot of people do for a living down there. Does it mainly involve ranching?"

"No," I replied. "We have GM, Xerox, Dayton Tire, Seagate Technologies..."

"Oh," she answered. "So it's pretty sophisticated down there. I would have never guessed."

The someone else stepped in. "Oklahoma City has a GM plant? You guys build cars down there?" I looked at him dumbfounded. And these people weren't being rude or snobby. I very much enjoyed my conversation with them. Thanks to my good representation of OKC, they walked away better informed about our city. And that could always have a trickle down effect.

Think about this. Your typical average citizen from the east coast, provincial as they are, will think of Seattle first for doing business before Oklahoma City. Why? Because the Hollywood mentality of many Americans keeps them believing that sophistication only exists along a body of salt water, unless it's Chicago. It's sad to know that someone with a bachelor's degree from a California university, or New York university actually believes Oklahomans still throw straw with a pitchfork. But we are just as responsible. Oklahoma does not market itself well...period. That is where we should receive an F. And we often times shun newcomers to Oklahoma City. We have a really bad habit of saying "why did you come here?" Each time we say that to someone, we risk losing thousands of potential economic dollars from that small sentence.

Education in Seattle is naturally going to get better attention from national publications because it simply is a more recognizeable city. Publications will look at them first before they look at us. We have top notch health care here, but people in other parts of the country don't have a single clue about that. The only way Oklahoma can ever improve its image is through good national TV exposure. Then maybe people 1,500 miles away will start looking at us differently.

[Diogenes]

Oklahoma does not market itself well...period. That is where we should receive an F. And we often times shun newcomers to Oklahoma City. We have a really bad habit of saying "why did you come here?"


Well put OKCpulse, you're on to something here. The last figures I've read pointed out that Oklahoma spends less than one percent on travel advertisments and markteting for the state.

I lived on the East Coast for a number of years before returning to Oklahoma and everything you said is right on! To me, Oklahoma should aggressively market the state and do so with an attempt to dilute the stereotype non-Oklahomans have of the state. That is to say that Oklahoma is more than a flat, desolate wasteland of red dirt. We are more than cowboys and Indians, buffalos, steers and oil wells. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't embrace our history, but that we should also present ourselves as a place where urban sophistication and the frontier peacefully mix.

[floater]

A second "well-put" to okcpulse. It may take years, maybe even decades, but it will happen. We need to put on a PR assault by:

1) double the funding level of the visitor's bureau with a higher hotel/restaurant tax (after that of the state fairgrounds?)
2) developing an ambassador program that helps local members of national groups bring meetings here
3) use native-born celebrities to attract events and media here
4) invite writers of nationally-distributed periodicals to our top events
5) work with any connections in Hollywood to develop a film that shows Oklahoma City, not some smaller town where the biggest employer is a Wal-Mart
6) invest city and state funds into advertising in print, and ideally, television
7) invade national and other cities' message boards and gratuitously promote Oklahoma City (as some of us have already done)

I think the most cost-effective and realistic method to altering our image is to keep hosting events and doing a top notch job of organizing them. We need to target events that bring members of the press; if they are sincere in their interest, I have no doubt they'll file a positive story.

[mranderson]

The "connections" in California and producing the motion picture or television program in Oklahoma City, are why I would like to see a motion picture studio built here.

We need to do more national advertising on cable and major networks which show Oklahoma City as a modern, cosmoplitian city with fine arts, fine dining, and attractions that rival the "major league" cities.

By doing this, we may be able to shed our hayseed, toothpick chewing, redneck image. That kind of image makes people think that we "done gradiated the sixth grade." (yep, aha, Jethro). Also get away from jokes like "if you live in a mobile home on five acres of land with no trees and the house is in the center of the land, in Oklahoma, you might be a redneck."

Although produced in the mid 80's, I saw a comedian on a Rodney Dangerfield showcase the other night. What was the center of his set? A redneck named Budda in Enid, Oklahoma who married his sister and thought his phone number was "nine." That offended me.

We need to get people away from this dribble and teach them what this city is REALLY like. Publicity and advertising are major keys. A motion picture studio would really help... Especially if a series was based here and set here. And I am not talking about a one season sitcom from a few years ago.

[Nuclear_2525]

This all sounds good...and I agree that OKC should advertise a new image. But don't you think there should be something to advertise about first? I know Bricktown is great and MAPS 1 did a great job as well. BUT OKC is still premature for putting an image out there for national attention. The city just needs more time before it starts trying to change people's minds. Mainly because, OKC could do the best job ever of presenting itself well to people, but when those people get here, if they don't find all those things and don't have something that proves their previous thoughts about OKC were wrong, then they are going to go back to wherever and continue to think the same thing. After that, no matter how great the city gets, their views will never change. Tulsa is in the same position as far as this goes. Tulsa doesn't have the Bricktown that OKC does, but Tulsa has other things that OKC doesn't. Both cities need to work more towards what the other is achieving and then there would be two great cities in OK, and maybe then people's minds would change. I just think pulling people in right now by putting false ideas in their heads would be a mistake.

[mranderson]

How do you figure we do not have enough to advertise?

Oklahoma City has the Cowboy hall of fame and western heritage center, a zoo that is among the top ten in the nation, Remington Park, soon will have Reminton Casino, we have Indian gaming facilities, the number one minor hockey team in the nation, a premier baseball stadium, the most modern canal in the country, one of the nicest downtown entertainment districts in the nation, Bass Pro, an arena that is a top concert draw, a river that will soon rival the Charles River in Boston, the bombing memorial and museum, the softball hall of fame, a modern nationally aclaimed concert hall...

Need I say more? Add these into the television campaigns and I bet it sells. A lot of people think we are still hickbillies. By showing all the modern cultrual sites along with the mid to upscale shops, this shows the country, if not the world, that we do not all wear baseball caps with buck teeth, and drink Coors while we yell "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" down the streets.

I know from traveling all over the country what people, for the most part, say about Oklahoma City, and what they think our city is like.

[swake]

Actually Tulsa does have a movie studio

Zepper Studios in Sand Springs

www.zepperstudios.com

[floater]

Nuclear and mranderson, I agree with both you . When we sell OKC now, we need to be careful about what kind of expectations to build. So, let's market OKC as a nice place to spend the weekend, with the world-class attractions mranderson listed. We can't say we're a bustling metropolis, but that we're a unique destination and hometown that's much more dynamic than popular image - not your daddy's Oklahoma City, so to speak.

Once we get the housing developments, the Flatiron Town Center, any spinoff developments, plus the gorgeous, fun Oklahoma! River, by 2009, we can be more flamboyant in our claims.

Still, I see no reason to wait. If we wait, it will only delay the process of image improvement. Let's start now with a proud but nuanced message that's true to who we are.

[mranderson]

Swake: I saw the website, and will tour the studio when they make tours available. I have been in every studio in the United States with a public tour and some without. I have a close friend in the industry (she is not famous enough to be a good contact for Oklahoma), and she gave me a tour of the studio she works in most.

It did not appear to be anything big. Maybe a competitor to Screen Gems in Willmington, North Carolina. They have no back lot sets and only a couple of studios. The tour was disapointing.

The studio I have in mind for Oklahoma City would rival Universal, Paramount, Disney and Sony. It would have massive back lot sets depicting a large number of time periods and cities. Plus 13 or so studios ranging from a studio only large enough for a newscast, to a massive 500,000 square foot or more studio that a mega picture to rival "The Bible" or something like that.

Zepper is nice to have, but I want the big boys. Oklahoma is prime for the third major production state behind California and Florida respectively. We have everything to offer from a desert to a beach. So, why not?

With what I have in mind, it could easily bring 10,000 jobs to Oklahoma City. Many full time, year round. Plus it would have to increase air traffic ten fold. THAT would be the iceing on the cake to make Oklahoma City a tourist destination. Then more businesses would locate here.

[Luke]

The studio I have in mind for Oklahoma City would rival Universal, Paramount, Disney and Sony. It would have massive back lot sets depicting a large number of time periods and cities. Plus 13 or so studios ranging from a studio only large enough for a newscast, to a massive 500,000 square foot or more studio that a mega picture to rival "The Bible" or something like that.

Oklahoma is prime for the third major production state behind California and Florida respectively. We have everything to offer from a desert to a beach. So, why not?

I like your style, Mr Anderson! Dream big! I completely agree with you, by the way. Oklahoma has such a varied landscape. Oklahoma features nearly every aspect of America within the borders - landscape, people and otherwise. It would be the perfect place for a studio. We should contact Dino Lalli (spelling?) and encourage him to make offers to the different studios to locate (or relocate?) to OKC. Great idea!

OK, I'm very vague on this... But, I remember several years ago, a guy that produced the Godfather movies (maybe?) who had connections with OKC and wanted to build a studio out here cuz he didn't want his kids growing up in California. The name Gray keeps coming to mind, but like I said, it's so vague. Ring any bells? If so, where is this guy and is he gonna build that studio?


Luke

[HOT ROD]

Floater: The only way Oklahoma can ever improve its image is through good national TV exposure. Then maybe people 1,500 miles away will start looking at us differently.

This is why I want any major league team with the Oklahoma City moniker, on national television! We should demand better promos of OKC, our skyline, and our quality of life. I saw the bullnanza (yes, bullnanza was on ESPN and I watched it here in Seattle) and I have to say ESPN did not really do a good job promoting OKC. the pics they had of the skyline were in motion and were not good pics, it made our skyline look mediocre - when in reality we have a pretty nice, dense, and PRETTY skyline!

When they do games in Dallas or KC, they have a stationary camera - positioned appx a mile away from downtown - looking into town. It makes the city look happening. So why did ESPN not do that for us? even the pics of Bricktown looked small-time. Ive been there and I have to say Brick is as good as anybody elses downtown entertainment district. so why didnt this come through on ESPN?

Why didnt the sportscasters say anything nice about OKC and its quality of life? they did not say anything bad (and actually made OKC seem pretty important to the rodeo scene, which is ok) but when they broadcast anywhere else, the broadcasters always put in a plug about the host city. This is why all of you think Seattle is "all that" when in reality, without the ocean inlet - this place would be worse than OKC.

[okcpulse]

I understand and agree with what you're saying, nuclear2525. However, when I mean promote Oklahoma, I mean educating coastal residents that we are even civilized and sophisticated. Some time back I met someone who had a family reunion here in Oklahoma City. Some of their relatives were from California, and had never been to this part of the country.

This is some of what the California family packed... Coca-Cola (cases of), toilet paper, a TV set with a VCR player and a stack of VHS tapes. The lady told me she asked them if they thought they were going on a camping trip when they got here. They replied, "no, we didn't know if any of these essentials were sold out here, and we weren't sure if you guys had a TV set." I asked the lady if it was supposed to be a joke, and she told me they were serious. Yes, they felt like idiots, even surprised by the fact we had a freeway system, but dumbfounded nonetheless.

While in Florida in 1998, me and a group of family and friends went to a water park in Kissimmee-St. Cloud. My mom forgot to tell me when they'd be back to pick us up from the park. It was getting late and I was out of quarters for the pay phone. I asked to use my cousin's friend's cell phone. Her friend asked, "do you guys in Oklahoma know how to use a cell phone?" I stared her straight through, grabbed the phone and dialed the number. After talking to mom, I handed it back. "By the way," I told her, "your batteries are getting low. There's probably not enough juice to get you home. Battery juice, that is."

[swake]

OK, I'm very vague on this... But, I remember several years ago, a guy that produced the Godfather movies (maybe?) who had connections with OKC and wanted to build a studio out here cuz he didn't want his kids growing up in California. The name Gray keeps coming to mind, but like I said, it's so vague. Ring any bells? If so, where is this guy and is he gonna build that studio?


Luke

I think you mean Francis Ford Coppola and Zeotrope. You know, only about the greatest director of all time.

He made three movies in Tulsa, The Outsiders, Tex and Rumble Fish in the ‘80s

His kid would be Sofia, as in the director and writer of Lost in Translation. He ran away to Tulsa while his studio was in Bankruptcy and made movies here in Tulsa for several years.

Oh, and as for ESPN, a number of the sportscasters in ESPN are from Tulsa TV Stations and Winnercom, the company that produces most if ESPNs programming, is a Tulsa company and Vyvx, another Tulsa company is the main transmitter for sports and event programming nationwide. Tulsa really should build on this media presence more than it has in the past.

As for a major studio, Zepper is just starting out and is doing well, I think the NC studio is a great example of how to start and build a studio presence.

[okcpulse]

No, swake. He's talking about Gray Fredrickson, who co-produced The Godfather movies. He lives in OKC now, and teaches film here at Oklahoma City Community College. He plans to open a studio, but for now, he's focusing on building Oklahoma's talent pool. Fritz Kiersch is working with Gray as well. Fritz directed Children of the Corn.

But yes, I remember Zoetrope Studios.

[mranderson]

I would be very disappointed if we built anothe Screen Gems. It is tiny and hard to find.

Plus, there is not much production done there. When I toured it, they were striking the sets for "Dawson's Creek," which was filmed there and around Willmington. Plus, they had some sets from "Matlock." Andy Griffith moved the series to Willmington after the thrid or fourth season so he could be colser to his ranch outside Mount Airee. That town, by the way, ws the inspiration for the series "The Andy Griifith Show" and late "Mayberry RFD." It is a tourist trap and a very disappointing one.

When we DO build a studio, I want it done right. Not some aluminum buildings and a makeshift parking lot on a tract that looks a lot like the buildings at NW 4 and Rockwell. I want it done in style. And on large scale. Plus easy for the tourist trade to find. Maybe near Will Rogers. Even along the Oklahoma River.

In fact, a good idea would be for KFOR or KWTV to relocate their studios to the motion picture studio. They could do so much more production by sharing the facilities.

Screen Gems looks like a poorly built office complex. In fact, it was hard to tell it was a studio at all. Big mistake. Plus $12.00 for a tour of some Aluminum buildings is really lousy. A waste of money. $5.00 would be fair. Of course, the parking WAS free.