Full Circle

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Is there any chance we could get Full Circle Bookstore to open a second location in Bricktown?

[floater]

That would be nice.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

But would it mean they need to close their Penn Place location?

[Midtowner]

But would it mean they need to close their Penn Place location?

It's an interesting thing to consider. On one hand, 50 penn has a lot of traffic just because of the offices above it. On the other, Bricktown has an enormous amount of foot traffic, etc. I think if done right, a bookstore would be great in Bricktown. I'm not sure if Full Circle has the capital to expand, or is willing to take a risk like that. If not a perfect business model, Bricktown has served as sort of a revolving door for a lot of restaurants and businesses in the past.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

OK. So who SHOULD come in and do a bookstore?

Didn't their owner run for mayor?

[Midtowner]

OK. So who SHOULD come in and do a bookstore?

Didn't their owner run for mayor?

Anyone with the capital and the ability to not be impacted too heavily by a total loss -- a very real possibility. The Bricktown market has been shown to be fairly fickle. While I think that a bookstore could actually sell books there, they'd have to do a pretty brisk business to pay rent on a large space, etc.

Powell's in Portland, Oregon would be an example for us to follow (4 or 5 floors of every book imaginable). I'm not sure what the profit margins/expenses associated with the business would be. I do think that if someone thinks they could make money in this way, they'd open a store.

I would visit it were it down there. I think Full Circle would have the best shot at it, however, I think it depends on whether or not the owner thinks it would be a good idea to stake his entire business on such a risky endeavor.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

hat would you say to a BIG Barnes&Nobles?

[Midtowner]

hat would you say to a BIG Barnes&Nobles?

Unless they broke their normal format -- a suburban stripmallesque (new word) format, I'd be against it. Now, if they opened a superstore and occupied 6 levels of an old warehouse along the canal and ran coffee shop on the bottom floor with wi-fi, etc.. I could go for that.

The name wouldn't bother me so long as it was not the same B&N that you'd find on Memorial. Check out that bookstore in Portland that I was talking about if you're ever up there. It's a bona fide tourist attraction, and always, ALWAYS filled with people.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

You got me thinking how long it is until Wal Mart comes out with a new, urban format. That wouldn't be such a bad idea, as long as it is upscale, trendy, and not the same everywhere you go.

[nurfe75]

Former bookstore manager here. I worked for Borders and Waldenbooks through college and a couple years after, so I'll let you in on something: bookstores have very very small profit margins. If you go into a Gap and buy something for $30, that item probably cost the store $10. A $30 hardcover book, on the other hand, cost the store nearly $20. It is much more difficult for bookstores to be profitable, especially since B&N and Borders have forced most bookstore chains to discount heavily. So a bookstore in bricktown wouldn't be as feasible as other retail stores. Though I agree, it would be nice to see one.

Personally, I would like to see a local independent store like Full Circle down there. I've heard Jim Tolbert actually loses money on Full Circle, but keeps it open as a hobby b/c he has the money to do it. So he might be willing to do something like that. The market is already saturated with Boders & B&N though, so I don't think those chains would put one down there. I prefer the independent chains anyway--they tend to carry more obscure stuff I like. Then again, that isn't the stuff that sells and keeps a store profitable.

All that rambling to say I don't think a Bricktown bookstore is feasible, though it would be nice to have one.

[nurfe75]

And a Walmart in bricktown? No way. We don't need anymore Walmarts. Anywhere. Especially not in a location that needs to express individual OKC flavor.

[metro]

Wal-Mart already tried the more urban format in NYC. It didnt really fly. In fact not at all. I think the demographic and product desire is different and plus could you imagine all their semi's and extensive warehousing system trying to cram into a compact urban location.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

No you see, that's it. It would have to be more specialized, and likeable from an urban standpoint. Like an upscale grocery store, like Eetzie's in Houston, or something like that. Maybe a trendy, upscale bookstore from Walmart, or something to get the percentage of the market that Walmart is currently not reaching. Those Yuppies will NEVER walk foot in a Walmart as long as they are Yuppie.

[windowphobe]

And Full Circle has moved once before - it used to be on Western alongside VZD's, if I remember correctly.

[nurfe75]

What's with the Walmart obsession? I don't want ANY Walmart stores in bricktown. Bricktown should stay true to OKC original businesses. Walmart has saturated enough of the market. We don't need any more of them.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Explain IHOP.

[soonerguru]

Wal- Mart is unadulterated evil.

They have a plan to carve up Oklahoma City like a Thanksgiving Turkey, and they will succeed if people support them.

They are a scourge and do little to nothing to give back to the community, despite their ridiculous advertising which claims they do.

If you have ever worked for a non-profit or city service, you would be very familiar with what I'm talking about.

Just look at the heinous Belle Isle development and what they did to "bring back the lake" like they claimed they would when they made the announcement.

The last thing we need in OKC is a Wal-Mart in Bricktown. That would be the apotheosis of sheer idiocy.

[Midtowner]

Wal- Mart is unadulterated evil.

They have a plan to carve up Oklahoma City like a Thanksgiving Turkey, and they will succeed if people support them.

They are a scourge and do little to nothing to give back to the community, despite their ridiculous advertising which claims they do.

If you have ever worked for a non-profit or city service, you would be very familiar with what I'm talking about.

Just look at the heinous Belle Isle development and what they did to "bring back the lake" like they claimed they would when they made the announcement.

The last thing we need in OKC is a Wal-Mart in Bricktown. That would be the apotheosis of sheer idiocy.

I don't see them as evil. I see them as free enterprise.

Theyre' one of the few companies that I know of that have been so succsessful without some sort of government protected monomply, or operating with the only infrastructure in a highly regulated industry. Wal Mart is the best of capitalism.

I don't see it as a cancer really. I just see it as an innovative company that really has figured out how to move a massive amount of merchandise. Also, their effect upon prices for consumers has been very discernable.

Who cares about their help to non-profits. It could very well be $0.00 -- that is an option for them. By providing employment to their employees, they do, in a way provide charity.

That is not to say that I think they are without sin when it comes to ethical issues. I had a friend who worked at Wal-Mart (was a dept. manager) who told me about meetings that the management would occasionally put on so they could explain to their employees how to get welfare benefits (which at their pay level, they qualified for). They explained section 8 housing, food stamps, etc. Now, willfully paying your employees that rate, and then expecting the government to subsidize your employees for that low pay is definitely unethical.

Of course, the employees are willing to work for those wages, so it's a supply vs. demand issue -- and apparently, it's an employer's labor market when it comes to unskilled retail workers.

[nurfe75]

Midtowned, as a Libertarian that is exactly the thing that pisses me off about Walmart. I'm all about free enterprise and I hate government controlling businesses with "anti-trust" laws and all that, but tax payers ARE subsidizing Walmart employees. And that is tantamount to corporate welfare. They DELIBERATELY train their employees how to get public assistance to justify paying such a low wage. It's wrong. I won't shop there and I beg everyone to go to Crest for their groceries and Target for sundries.

Aside from how much I hate Walmart though, they do NOT need to put one in bricktown. That would just make a big joke out of our plans for a unique OKC retail and dining scene.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Crest it poor quality. I shop at the Albertson's off of I 40 in Yukon.

[workman45]

I shop at the new Crest store at 23rd and Merridian and have no complaints.

[Keith]

I shop at Wal-Mart for just about everything, and even though I live on the south side, I really like the Wal-Mart at I-40 & MacArthur. I don't think a Wal-Mart Super Center would be a good idea for Bricktown, however, a Neighborhood Market would look great on the east side of Bricktown. Free enterprise...you gotta love it.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

No. That however would be bad, if we ever hope to get a trendy grocery store like Houston's Eetzies to come into Bricktown.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

... but it would just mean we would have difficulty getting someone else to compete with it. It would boost the local economy, and it would give the people that will live there a grocery store.

I like the idea on second thought.

[Midtowner]

Midtowned, as a Libertarian that is exactly the thing that pisses me off about Walmart. I'm all about free enterprise and I hate government controlling businesses with "anti-trust" laws and all that, but tax payers ARE subsidizing Walmart employees. And that is tantamount to corporate welfare. They DELIBERATELY train their employees how to get public assistance to justify paying such a low wage. It's wrong. I won't shop there and I beg everyone to go to Crest for their groceries and Target for sundries.

Aside from how much I hate Walmart though, they do NOT need to put one in bricktown. That would just make a big joke out of our plans for a unique OKC retail and dining scene.

It's very strange in my mind that the government subsidises certain low paid individuals, but won't just raise the minimum wage to force private companies to foot the bill.

I would even be in favor of creating an exception for companies under x number of employees to protect small businesses (that's one of the better arguments against this).

The government represents us all, and when the government lets itself be ripped off, it lets the taxpayers be ripped off as well. I guess that they depend on us taxpayers not being able to connect the dots and communicate among one another for change when they do.

And you know? I think they're right.