Drunk Attorneys

[hoya]

Hey guys, new poster.

I actually know both of these guys, and while they may not have been on their best behavior, Warr Acres PD didn't exercise its best judgment either. This story isn't over.

[jbrown84]

Care to elaborate?

[Midtowner]

I AM sick of your parking BS.

I can see both sides of this issue and I can see how reasonable people may differ on this one.

Right.

I think there's enough bad to be said about the behavior on both sides of these arrests and that the conduct of one party does not excuse the conduct of another party, i.e., two wrongs don't make a right.

The two attorneys were [allegedly] wrong to be driving drunk/drunk in public while Mr. Moon was [allegedly] in the wrong for spitting on a police officer as well as trying to pass himself off as a law enforcement officer.

The police, however, had no valid reason in my book to alert the media (if that's indeed what happened), and this whole thing should have had the opportunity to play out just as the thousands of other crimes of this nature have been able to play out.

[OKCMallen]

Hey guys, new poster.

I actually know both of these guys, and while they may not have been on their best behavior, Warr Acres PD didn't exercise its best judgment either. This story isn't over.

You can't do that! Let it all hang out or don't allude to it!

[OKCTalker]

Before Hoya weighs in (and you'd better!), don't lose sight of our police officers who have to put up with this sort of abuse every time they clock in. I'd imagine that exercising restraint and not nailing guys like Moon is the hardest thing they do. We owe them a lot. OK, back to regular programming.

[Midtowner]

Because you would physically assault someone simply because they're intoxicated and think yourself justified in doing so?

I assume by "nailing," you mean physical assault, correct?

[OKCTalker]

Because you would physically assault someone simply because they're intoxicated and think yourself justified in doing so?

I assume by "nailing," you mean physical assault, correct?

Midtowner - Whoa there, big fella. I was emphasizing the restraint of police officers, not that I'm on the prowl for drunks to roll. I haven't hit anyone since 4th grade music class (and I'm pretty sure that he hadn't been drinking).

[Midtowner]

Midtowner - Whoa there, big fella. I was emphasizing the restraint of police officers, not that I'm on the prowl for drunks to roll. I haven't hit anyone since 4th grade music class (and I'm pretty sure that he hadn't been drinking).

Ah, so then it takes restraint to keep from beating up drunks? Police officers put up with a great deal of grief, I'm sure. We all do. That we don't beat anyone up when we are confronted with distasteful people shouldn't be laudable, it should be expected.

However you shake it, what you said doesn't sound good. The police should only use force in a narrow set of circumstances. That's the scope of their job and authority. They don't deserve any extra kudos for doing what their job minimally allows and obeying the laws they're supposed to enforce.

[PennyQuilts]

As an officer of the court, and one who spends time at the court house (like these guys do), I think I would be so mortified at screwing up like this that I'd want to crawl into a hole. I guarantee, if anyone was jumping up and down defending my privacy, thank you very much, they'd have to do it without my encouragement. Seriously, I'd just die right then and there. Can you imagine how tough it is going to be for these guys to go back before a judge (assuming they have the nerve AND the opportunity) and try to pursuade the court that their client was either innocent or deserves a break? Of course, I suppose they could trot out this video and insist that compared to THIS (pointing at the video), their client is a saint! I would be too embarassed to even beg for mercy on the video.

[bornhere]

Nobody hit anyone else in this incident, so why go off into that area?

I'm going to be curious about 'best judgement' in this case as well.

[OKCMallen]

Can you imagine how tough it is going to be for these guys to go back before a judge (assuming they have the nerve AND the opportunity) and try to pursuade the court that their client was either innocent or deserves a break?

If judges are deciding cases based upon the personalities and pasts of the attorneys trying the cases, then we're already in big, big trouble.

[PennyQuilts]

I meant how tough it will be for the attorneys to go back in there and try to make an argument with a straight face!

[yukong]

Right.

I think there's enough bad to be said about the behavior on both sides of these arrests and that the conduct of one party does not excuse the conduct of another party, i.e., two wrongs don't make a right.

The two attorneys were [allegedly] wrong to be driving drunk/drunk in public while Mr. Moon was [allegedly] in the wrong for spitting on a police officer as well as trying to pass himself off as a law enforcement officer.

The police, however, had no valid reason in my book to alert the media (if that's indeed what happened), and this whole thing should have had the opportunity to play out just as the thousands of other crimes of this nature have been able to play out.

Well, before we go off and assume that the police alerted the media...let us remember one thing...the Oklahoman (and maybe even the TV stations) have news runners that either go to, or contact every law enforcement agency in the metro, and somewhat throughout the state whose main job is to get information on all people arrested the day/night before to see if there is anything news worthy. The police most likely did not have to call anyone. This was going to get out regardless. I used to be a prosecutor, and the newspaper went to the Sheriff's office, and the Police departments every morning and checked the public arrest records. If they saw anything that looked "juicy" they would then make official FOIA requests for the reports and any 911 tapes or videos/photos that we had on file. Maybe someone did call the news media, but I doubt it, because we never had to call them. They were asking sometimes before the stuff even got to my office. Louis Moon is well known in most circles and would have stuck out like a sore thumb....ie..arrested for DUI.

[hoya]

Well, I don't want to speak out of turn on this. I'm not sure how much I can/should elaborate when things are still pending. There's talk of a lawsuit for police brutality.

Now, while it is pretty obvious (you can tell by the video) that the guys had been drinking, there was no spitting on a police officer. Like has been theorized here, the badge incident was more of a "look, I support the cops" rather than "hey, I'm an Oklahoma County deputy."

The "take us to county" thing was because they know the cops there aren't gonna beat the crap out of them (though it was pretty funny on the video).

[OKCTalker]

Hoya - Not sure that your theory holds water because the story & video so quickly went public. If the WAPD was truly guilty of police brutality and invented the charge of spitting on an officer, then they'd be trying to cover-up and hide, which they aren't. Despite being handcuffed, in custody and having the video camera pointed out to them, Moon & Co. were clearly abusive, argumentative and uncooperative, so it's reasonable to assume that they were even worse while on the street being questioned and then placed into custody. That said, anybody can sue anyone for anything, and I can sure see these two guys - attorneys - doing just that.

[OKCMallen]

Good old America....sue when people are paying attention and hold the course long enough to where people forget...right out of the Schultz playbook.

[securityinfo]

Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel.

Homer Simpson

[Dana]

I wouldn't worry about it they are attorneys they will get out of it. They will pay a fine and then it will be swept under the rug. As we all know the laws are different for lawyers, judges, state workers, government etc, etc.

[Dana]

Some enterprising reporter should find out why they were so insistent being taken to county... I'm guessing it was in the hope they'd be extended 'professional courtesy' and allowed to walk.

I guarantee you that is exactly why they wanted to go to county they knew they would probably just get a slap on the wrist and they probably still will. But then that is some more of the good ole boy policy working for you they cover each other no matter what.

[Midtowner]

so it's reasonable to assume

Police lie -- a lot more than you'd think.

(just like DHS workers, Dana)

Police lie like everyone else, and they do, more than just occasionally, use unlawful force. You don't know what happened here, you have one piece of the story which is video evidence. The rest of the story, so far, consists of various accusations which have yet to be proven.

It's not reasonable to assume anything in a criminal case without hearing both sides of the case. These guys were pretty obviously intoxicated, but I'd want to hear some evidence before making any 'reasonable' assumptions.

[PennyQuilts]

As we all know the laws are different for lawyers, judges, state workers, government etc, etc.

That type of ignorant comment is the kind people throw out there without any attempt at fairness or accuracy. It is just as accurate as saying all poor people are stupid and lazy. Give me a break.

[Hollywood]

It's not reasonable to assume anything in a criminal case without hearing both sides of the case. These guys were pretty obviously intoxicated, but I'd want to hear some evidence before making any 'reasonable' assumptions.

And what evidence do you have which would lead to your "reasonable" assumption quoted below?

Police lie -- a lot more than you'd think.

(just like DHS workers, Dana)

Police lie like everyone else, and they do, more than just occasionally, use unlawful force.

[Dana]

GUilty til proven innocent?

Why not to the average citizen that is the way it is done and sometimes your held guilty even after you have been proven innocent but then that is life.

[Dana]

Police lie -- a lot more than you'd think.

(just like DHS workers, Dana)

Police lie like everyone else, and they do, more than just occasionally, use unlawful force. You don't know what happened here, you have one piece of the story which is video evidence. The rest of the story, so far, consists of various accusations which have yet to be proven.

It's not reasonable to assume anything in a criminal case without hearing both sides of the case. These guys were pretty obviously intoxicated, but I'd want to hear some evidence before making any 'reasonable' assumptions.

I totally agree you will get no argument from me that cops break the law to get what they want. Just like pissed off DHS workers when you won't let them illegally kidnap your children and grandchildren for the Federal Bonus money. Of course it would have been even better if the lawyers had not been drunk then you could really stick it to the cops afterall they are lawyers. Amazing how some people can finally see my side of the story when you change the characters. One big difference though I wasn't drunk or drinking I was at work making money and paying taxes.

[Dana]

That type of ignorant comment is the kind people throw out there without any attempt at fairness or accuracy. It is just as accurate as saying all poor people are stupid and lazy. Give me a break.

No my dear ignorance is knowing the rules are different for others and pretending they are not.
It is well known that political people and movie stars etc. get away with stuff that regular people would not.
As long as you have the money and can pass the test you can be a lawyer. The other guy was right if you are going to put yourself in that position you should be held to a higher standard. The judicial people are supposed to be the example right? The elite of the human race either by morals or ethics it shouldn't be because of who has the most money or the connections or to fulfill a quota. That is why they supposedly put all those rulls in force background checks etc.
There used to be a day when people lived good lives and as long as you did that you really didn't have much to worry about as far as legal goes that is not the case anymore.
There used to be a time when a person was looked upon by their morals if you were a good person you had nothing to worry about that is not the case anymore.
It used to be only the mob and the gangs took people down just because they could that also is not the case anymore.
I could go on but I am sure you get the picture.