Universities/Colleges and downtown OKC

[HOT ROD]

Pete, lest we not forget - Downtown's 5.5M sq feet is LEASIBLE!!!!!! There is more if you include owner occupieds (which DEVON tower wont be included in the 5.5M total, so either stop including it in the leasible 5.5M number OR include ALL of downtown, which would be about 8M today).

Ed, I wasn't trying to diss OBU in my comment above. I am glad OBU has their MBA and grad programs downtown.

What I meant to say, when i said a major university - I meant, a major undergrad campus. I have given PLENTY of examples and even links earlier. If you guys care to click either link, you would see what Im talking about.

We need YOUNG PEOPLE IN DOWNTOWN, NOT JUST OLD FOGIES who will head for home in Edmond after working hours. Having a UNDERGRAD campus (either university or a collage of 'em) in downtown - will add to downtown's urban vibe and make it so that young people will want to stay in OKC.

It works for Portland, it works for Denver, why not work for OKC?

Denver did NOT plan for a downtown campus in their civic master plan, it was newly constructed in the 1980s and (the biggest construction) 1990's, I lived in Den during the mid 1990's, just when Araria campus was getting big!

Guys, Im not just talking classes or programs, I know downtown already has that. NOOOOO!

For the umteenth time - IM talking about having a MAJOR CAMPUS (you know, buildings surrounding a lawn; where classes are taught and students contribute to the vibe of downtown). those said students will LIVE in downtown, most likely work in or near downtown, and play in downtown.

Having that mindset as a young person bodes well for OKC, since they will carry the torch and pass it on to other young people (as in, tell everyone they know that OKC is cool/hip; and when they invite their friends from Chicago, NY, LA, ...; those kids will decide for themselves when they would see the downtown campus/vibe).

OCU is OK - I personally would like them to create a better campus vibe/community, but to have a downtown campus - even for OCCC - it would bbe centrally located for the metro area and would be ACCESSIBLE since we need to raise our OKC/Oklahoma education scores!!!!!

See what Im getting at? We kill all birds with one stone - build a downtown campus (for OCCC or a collection of schools; have undergrad and pre-collegiate courses there; the students create a young HIP vibe for downtown; the campus is accessible to the OKC metro and to students who otherwise might not have the goods to get into OCU/OU/OBU main campus or grad programs.

By the way, Seattle doesn't have a school downtown (Portland does, and Portland has a better downtown hip vibe than Seattle) and I can confirm for you that MOST downtown workers in Seattle dont have grad degrees (and many dont have any degree at all!). I assumed the same for OKC, but I could be wrong.

[HOT ROD]

hi okcustu.

sounds like OCU needs to either change their policy OR make the campus more befitting for an urban vibe. OCU's campus is OK, a good start - but, it is lacking.

Maybe over time OCU students will take over downtown, I mean - it is YOUR city and downtown (moreso than OU/Norman, which is a suburb, you guys are 1 mile away!). You guys are OKC citians and so you should 'represent' in your big city downtown with your school letters - regardless of not originally from OKC.

Anyways, I do see what you're saying about many OCU students being foreigners. I think you guys need clubs which do things in the urban environment of downtown OKC! Perhaps with the Thunder now in town, that will help you all get SOCIAL CLUBS started, where you proudly where your OCU colours in your downtown OKC!!!!

Like Mayor Mick would say, PROMOTE OKC - PRONOUNCE OFTEN!!!

[okcustu]

The school was trying last year, they had monthly free movie nights at Harkins, but because of cost they've moved it to (gasp) Tinseltown. I'm doing my best to tell some of the idiots here that 23rd street is not that bad and the school is not in the ghetto. But i'm having to deal with a sheltered suburban mallrats like a girl who trying to convince people plano is bigger/better than okc

[HSC-Sooner]

I am a graduate student at OU-HSC and it would be nice to have traffic between this campus and the downtown area.

However, the problem is that since there are hospitals here and its an open campus, students don't feel as safe walking alone in the dark at times. However, this campus is building a new cancer research center that will come up around 2012/13. If more research money is available from the federal government (from the National Institute of Health or National Science Foundation), then more labs will move to this campus. More labs = more students = more research = higher chance of drug discovery/major science discovery.

And it's pretty exciting here. There's research going here for HIV, Lyme disease, a potential vaccine/cure for Alzheimer's disease, and possible cancer therapies going on. If you want a college town feel, there needs to be more businesses next to the campus along with more coffee shops with study spots.

I know Java Dave's is nearby but its not within walking distance and medical/grad students are simply too busy to bother with. Something like a rezoning of areas near the campus to be retail/restaurants is needed. A trendy and nice campus corner that is next to the HSC campus will not only draw students but also the federal employees around that capitol that is just a few blocks up north.

[lasomeday]

I agree. I looked at going to the University of Portland and University of Colorado Denver because they were downtown. Portland State University is also in downtown Portland.

The university of Colorado has programs offered at the Denver campus and not in Boulder, such as Urban Planning and Theater, because Denver is better situated for the students to learn in that environment. Denver has benefitted from it too, they have a thriving theater district and their urban planning is a no brainer.

It would be great if OU or OSU would have a campus downtown and offer MS and BS degrees in business, music, theater, art, urban planning, engineering, architecture, etc. degrees that would really attract a good mix and be beneficial to have downtown. Students could have internships and part time jobs within walking distance to their school and homes, which would also keep them downtown. They would not have to leave (except to get groceries).

[HSC-Sooner]

The OU campus in Norman already has excellent facilities for engineering. However, for architecture, its really shoddy. What you could do is use the downtown area for upper classmen architecture students (ie years 3-5). That would be an excellent idea.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Turn I-235 into a bouvlevard between where the construction was just completed all the was to I-40. Tear down the bridge, raise the roadbed to grade and restore the old street grid. That will go a long way to re-joining the the cut that the expressway made and integrating the OUHSC into downtown.

I do like the idea of a design program DT.

[BG918]

I am a graduate student at OU-HSC and it would be nice to have traffic between this campus and the downtown area.

However, the problem is that since there are hospitals here and its an open campus, students don't feel as safe walking alone in the dark at times. However, this campus is building a new cancer research center that will come up around 2012/13. If more research money is available from the federal government (from the National Institute of Health or National Science Foundation), then more labs will move to this campus. More labs = more students = more research = higher chance of drug discovery/major science discovery.

And it's pretty exciting here. There's research going here for HIV, Lyme disease, a potential vaccine/cure for Alzheimer's disease, and possible cancer therapies going on. If you want a college town feel, there needs to be more businesses next to the campus along with more coffee shops with study spots.

I know Java Dave's is nearby but its not within walking distance and medical/grad students are simply too busy to bother with. Something like a rezoning of areas near the campus to be retail/restaurants is needed. A trendy and nice campus corner that is next to the HSC campus will not only draw students but also the federal employees around that capitol that is just a few blocks up north.

Exactly why the downtown/blvd. to OUHSC light rail should be part of MAPS III. Development along the route between the two will explode even before the first train runs. The 10th Street corridor has the potential to be really cool if there is light rail running from the heart of OUHSC into Midtown and south down Broadway. You also have the potential to build up 10th as a residential corridor with lofts and condos for students, scientists, etc.

On a side note, I've always thought it would be interesting to have OU's 5th Year Urban Design architecture studio in downtown, as the year-long project always focuses on some aspect of OKC's downtown revitalization (at least if you have Hans Butzer as your prof.)

[bombermwc]

As someone that actually went to OCU, I'd say that I and everyone else there was very happy with our campus environment. We were isolated from the surrounding crap and actually felt safe. How many places can you say you feel safe walking alone at night with crack houses just a stone's throw away? It doesn't fit the neighborhood, and I'd say the student body is glad. OCU is still working on buying everything from Penn to Classen, and from 23rd to 30th. So you'll see a much more broad campus as the school grows...especially athleticlly. I was always very happy having a campus that was very tight, and NOT sprawling. That meant I could treat my car like a locker and walk back and fourth to it between classes. Unlike somehwere at OU where it's just not possible.

Now that being said. You will NEVER get them moving away from where they are. Don't get any ideas about it because it's NOT going to happen. There is a 100+ year tradition and it's not moving. And you're NOT going to get a large university to just pop out of nowhere downtown either. OKC is saturated with universities and another even D2 size school just wouldn't work. There's no need, so why would anyone choose to build it?

[Midtowner]

As someone that actually went to OCU, I'd say that I and everyone else there was very happy with our campus environment. We were isolated from the surrounding crap and actually felt safe. How many places can you say you feel safe walking alone at night with crack houses just a stone's throw away? It doesn't fit the neighborhood, and I'd say the student body is glad. OCU is still working on buying everything from Penn to Classen, and from 23rd to 30th. So you'll see a much more broad campus as the school grows...especially athleticlly. I was always very happy having a campus that was very tight, and NOT sprawling. That meant I could treat my car like a locker and walk back and fourth to it between classes. Unlike somehwere at OU where it's just not possible.

Now that being said. You will NEVER get them moving away from where they are. Don't get any ideas about it because it's NOT going to happen. There is a 100+ year tradition and it's not moving. And you're NOT going to get a large university to just pop out of nowhere downtown either. OKC is saturated with universities and another even D2 size school just wouldn't work. There's no need, so why would anyone choose to build it?

Absolutely. I currently attend the law school up there, and while we are completely removed from the undergrads, i.e., I have never even spoken with an undergrad in all of my time at OCU, I would tend to agree with you. No way in hell would I want to move the law school downtown.

I'm there for an education, not an 'urban experience,' and certainly not to bring life to the downtown area.

As for another school moving downtown, it's not going to happen unless such a move would actually make the school money. OCU won't do it -- they just built a NIIIIICEEE new business building. The law school won't do it because no one wants to deal with downtown and law school all at once, not to mention the fact that the space requirements for a law school in a sq. ft./student aspect, once you count faculty offices, a law library, etc., would be cost prohibitive for downtown.

OCU is expanding its current campus, look for it to be building a LOT in the next 20 years, maybe even trying to go D-1 in multiple sports (including, quite possibly, football).

With the state slashing budgets for public higher education and double-digit tuition hikes just to pay the bills, don't expect a public university to open anything down there any larger than the current downtown consortium of schools currently offering classes in the Santa Fe Parking Garage area. Oklahoma doesn't value higher education. We'd rather give tax cuts than invest in higher ed, primary/secondary ed, roads and bridges, DHS or anything, really.

[bombermwc]

Which is why the private schools in OK are the ones forking out the best students in their fields.

[Midtowner]

Which is why the private schools in OK are the ones forking out the best students in their fields.

Some private schools yes, some not so much.

Mid America Bible College, for example, is one I don't see churning out spectacular graduates.

[jbrown84]

Well, Sally Kern's husband is a "professor" there, so that tells you a lot.

I think he teaches Creation 101 and Culture War 450.

[Midtowner]

Well, Sally Kern's husband is a "professor" there, so that tells you a lot.

I think he teaches Creation 101 and Culture War 450.

I don't really take a lot of issue with Bible colleges. If people think their religion is so great that they should be required to study church dogma as part of their higher -ed curriculum, bravo, God bless America.

For all I know, there couldn't be a better person to teach those sort of classes than Rev. Kern., so power to him.

In truth, I don't see how these places could be much better or worse than someplace like OCCC or OSU-OKC. Lots of adjuncts, only a few doctorates on the full time staff (which is very, very small).

Their course catalog doesn't have anything totally insane on it, at least nothing any more insane than what they'd probably force an undergrad to take at OBU or OCU.. They're just very new, very small, and they don't have as distinguished a faculty as either school.

FYI, Culture War ain't in the course catalog

[jbrown84]

at least nothing any more insane than what they'd probably force an undergrad to take at OBU or OCU..

You'd be surprised how liberal (or neutral) the bible classes are at OBU. Sally would certainly take issue.

To me the difference is that schools like OBU and OCU might have a couple semesters of required Bible classes, as well as offer majors in religion and ministry, but they aren't indoctrinating, they are teaching their students to have an open mind, to question, and to form their own opinions and beliefs.

[bombermwc]

Now I can't say anything about OBU beacause I went to OCU. But our "bible" courses were basically 2 courses you got to choose out of a list. Everyone took "Intro to Biblical Literature" which examines the bible as a piece of literature, not a religious doctrine. You read passages, analyze it for what it symbolises/translates. It's more of an education on terms and concepts of biblical times than religion. The other course can be chosen from many different areas. I chose Philosophy for my course (never again.....) but you could have taken Eastern Relgions, Middle Eastern Relgions, something about old-history religions, etc. You get the point. Even though they were religious courses, it wasn't as though you were being told "THINK MY WAY". That's the Methodist philosophy, be tolerant and open to new ideas.

And hey, it's OCU, so think of all the gay dancers there. They've got to be tolerent to accept all walks of life. As I understand the ideals behind OBU, if you say you are gay, you are expelled. Such as the gay/les student organization that got a bunch of students kicked out a couple years ago. I don't know if they are still that crazy out there or not. That's something you for sure don't deal with at a public school, but it depends on the private school whether you do.

Just for clarification, I didn't really count places like Mid-America or that size place in my comments about churning out the students. Basically....I meant the NAIA schools.

[Midtowner]

MACU is an NAIA school, isn't it?

[jbrown84]

As I understand the ideals behind OBU, if you say you are gay, you are expelled.

No, that's not true. The girl, for example, who came out in Newsweek, is still there, or she graduated at least. Official policy is they ask you to go to counseling, if that even happens. Most students, faculty members, and administrators don't agree with the policy or support it/enforce it.

Back on the classes issue, we are required to take Old and New Testament (1 sem. each), which are mostly history and cultural context, with some literature emphasis as well. It is not "Sunday School" or Bible study. We also take one semester of Philosophy and one semester of Comparative Civilization (anthropology and world religions). All are taught without the "America/White People/Christianity is superior" undertone that you see in many fundamentalist schools/churches.

[okcustu]

i just heard from a very reliable source at OCU that the regents are considering a move downtown and they would know by the end of the school year. he also said that depending on acquisition and etc. it could be open in four years

[Kerry]

Define "move downtown".

[okcustu]

thats all he said, it is just at the planning stages i dont think they have narrowed done a place since he talked about acquistions

[Kerry]

I really wish the Oklahoma State Regents for Higher Education would create Oklahoma Polytechinic (O-Poly) or the Oklahoma Institute of Technology (OIT or O-Tech) downtown. It wouldn't really be a school that competed with OU or OSU but it could serve students from around Oklahoma that attened 2-year schools or graduated from one of the other state schools and want to work on an advanced degree. Teaching staff could be brought in from some of the other state schools to build up the faculty. Even if just had 1,000 students it would be a great start.

[okcustu]

sounds like a good idea the Oklahoma career tech people would probably be pretty gung ho about it it's just probably getting higher ed to go along with them

[Kerry]

If we can have Panhandle State University we should be able to have a state campus in downtown OKC. Please don't take that as knock against OPSU but it seems that the State University systems lacks a premier campus that students at the state campuses can aspire to attend. Not ever one qualifies or can afford to attend OU and OSU.

[CuatrodeMayo]

A design school...please.