Oklahoma Tourism

[Karried]

Looking at all of these sites pertaining to Oklahoma Tourism, I can't imagine anyone not wanting to come visit!
What do you think of some of these sites? It makes me proud of our state - I'm emailing these links to various travel publications. Maybe they'll send someone to come and visit or contact the Chamber... doesn't hurt to try.



http://www.bricktownokc.com/
http://www.travelok.com/
http://tourism.state.ok.us/
http://www.okczoo.com/
http://www.sixflags.com/parks/frontiercity/index.asp
http://touroklahoma.com/
http://www.omniplex.org/

http://www.nationalcowboymuseum.org/
http://www.oklahomacitynationalmemorial.org/

[metro]

go for it!

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Oklahoma City MSA:

Omniplex. Southwest's largest science museum?
Remington Park. Horse Racing Capital of the World.
State Fair Park. Ditto.
Oklahoma City University. One of the nation's top business programs.
Bricktown. Fastest growing entertainment district in the Southwest.
Downtown OKC. Southern Living's best Southern downtown district.
OKC Museum of Art. World's largest piece of Chihuli Glass.
Oklahoma City Zoo. Nation's third best zoo, behind San Diego & Omaha.
Lloyd Noble OU Natural History Musuem. I forget what this museum's claim to fame. I am sure Patrick knows.
Fred Jones OU Museum of Art. Nation's largest gift to a public university.
National Cowboy Hall of Fame. The word "National" speaks for itself.
National Softball Hall of Fame. Ditto.

What we need to look into the possibility of.

College Football Hall of Fame.
Tornado Hall of Fame.
Native American Hall of Fame.

[Karried]

Sooner&Ricegrad, not sure about a hall of fame but I think you are on to something regarding
a Tornado/Weather Museum.

I think it would be great! Seriously, I think that is one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time - why not capitalize and educate on something that everyone believes happens here at least once a month. You could get it sponsored by storm chasing companies, storm shelter manufacturers, Red Cross, etc etc. The Norman National Weather Service would be a huge player - I think it is a great idea, people are fascinated by the weather and we have enough photos and memoribilia to fill a museum in OK. We could have replicas of storm shelters and have the sirens go off periodically. We could have a room that creates fake tornados ( I've seen that in the Omniplex right?) but we could have a huge room that makes a funnel... and of course we could have all of the state's meteorologists cut the red ribbon on opening day. I like it. Let's do it.

[mranderson]

Oklahoma City MSA:

Omniplex. Southwest's largest science museum?
Remington Park. Horse Racing Capital of the World.
State Fair Park. Ditto.
Oklahoma City University. One of the nation's top business programs.
Bricktown. Fastest growing entertainment district in the Southwest.
Downtown OKC. Southern Living's best Southern downtown district.
OKC Museum of Art. World's largest piece of Chihuli Glass.
Oklahoma City Zoo. Nation's third best zoo, behind San Diego & Omaha.
Lloyd Noble OU Natural History Musuem. I forget what this museum's claim to fame. I am sure Patrick knows.
Fred Jones OU Museum of Art. Nation's largest gift to a public university.
National Cowboy Hall of Fame. The word "National" speaks for itself.
National Softball Hall of Fame. Ditto.

What we need to look into the possibility of.

College Football Hall of Fame.
Tornado Hall of Fame.
Native American Hall of Fame.

The Omniplex can not be the largest museum of their kind in the Southwest. Oklahoma is NOT, I repeat NOT in the Southwest. We are in the midwest.

Remington being the "horse racing capitol." I guess some people have never heard of Churchill Downs, Bellmont, the other one (name escapes me for now), and Hollywood Park.

State Fair Horse racing capitol. No way. The majority of it is a dump.

Bricktown. Fastest growing entertainment district in the Southwest? See Omniplex.

The others. Maybe.

By the way. We do not need a "native american" hall of fame. If we must still make people think we are the stereotype, then maybe an American Indian hall of fame.

Tornado and Weather museum? Sounds good to me. Where is Gary England on this one?

[xrayman]

"Remington Park. Horse Racing Capital of the World."

Great ideas, but this is not true. Remington Park is no longer even a second-tier track. It's days have come and gone. RP was so mismanaged after the grand days of Debartolo. It is being rescued only by the new casino legislation, otherwise it would dry up and blow away. Horsemen and breeders literally - and this is sad - shake their heads at the downfall of Remington Park. The saving grace is it is a Magna track and they have hopes of the games making it a money-maker.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Check out the Chamber's webpage. They are just awesome in digging up a lot of this stuff. Some of it chamber bull, but whatever they provide DECENT links to is worth using on forums.

Oklahoma is, anything, but Midwestern. It is either Southwestern, Western, or Southern. We have had this discussion too, but it was enjoyable b/c many Oklahomans are split over this.

Midwestern peddles a stereotype I hate. "Plains."

In fact, two of the world's 5 oldest mountain ranges are in Okla.

[xrayman]

The "Midwestern"...."Southern"....."Southwest" thing is always an interesting topic. We've been talking about OKC and Tulsa comparisons a lot lately and here's an interesting thought I have heard many times over the years ----- Tulsa is a Midwestern city. Oklahoma City is firmly planted as a Southwestern city. Can 90 miles make that much difference? Actually, there's a lot to it that makes sense. For years, OKC was the ag center while Tulsa was the oil center. Tulsa attracted - for decades - a different demographic to its city than did Oklahoma City. Because of that, if you think about it, Tulsa culturally is much more like St. Louis, for example, than Dallas. Oklahoma City is much more like Dallas than St. Louis. Follow the reasoning? Of course, many things have changed in the last 15 years and this may no longer be true. But actually, I'd still put Tulsa more in the "Midwestern" category and OKC in the "Southwest." Ninety miles sometimes can make a huge difference.

[HOT ROD]

id agree with xray on this one. Tulsa is more Midwestern, much like Indy. OKC is much like San An or Phoenix or Dallas, Southwestern.

What about the State as a whole? I'd still say Southwestern or the more politically correct "South Central" US.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

I would say everything east of Duncan, and S. of Tulsa is Southern, and you could say Tulsa is 40% Southern. Go look at Midtown Tulsa and tell me Tulsa isn't atleast partly Southern.

And getting back on topic the "Midwestern" reputation of OKC has really hurt us, and kept us from being what we are, and want to be.

[xrayman]

"And getting back on topic the "Midwestern" reputation of OKC has really hurt us, and kept us from being what we are, and want to be."

I see what you are saying about the "Plains" image - I dislike it as well. But honestly, I don't think "Plains" when someone says "Midwest". When I think of "Midwestern cities" (despite the geography which I'll never understand) I think of Chicago, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, St. Louis and the like. I just don't think "Plains" when someone says "Midwest" at all. I don't think being referred to as a Midwestern city has "hurt us" and kept us from doing anything. I honestly don't. But I sure agree when someone sticks us in the "Plains."

[hailmary57yd]

I think that this information is helpful to me. I should visit more places.

[Patrick]

id agree with xray on this one. Tulsa is more Midwestern, much like Indy. OKC is much like San An or Phoenix or Dallas, Southwestern.

What about the State as a whole? I'd still say Southwestern or the more politically correct "South Central" US.

I agree Hot Rod, and others. Although I'd like OKC to be known as a Midwestern City for the reasons mranderson gives, we're just not geographically there. I actually see nothing wrong with comparing us to cities like Phoenix, Houston, San Antonio. All are nice cities, without the stereotypes OKC has.

[swake]

I don’t know how to break this to you, but the attitude you dislike so much in Tulsa is a mid-western attitude and outlook. You will get much the same in Kansas City, St Louis, or Chicago. And Sooner Grad, Tulsa looks nothing like a southern city. Kansas City is probably the city most like Tulsa anywhere, in attitude, appearance, the arts, old money, even topography. Tulsa and KC are more alike than KC and St Louis and much more alike than Tulsa and OKC. It’s just that KC is quite a bit larger than Tulsa. Chicago is pretty alike too, just so much larger.

I agree OKC is more southwestern. Nothing wrong with that, it’s fine unless you are in Dallas. Dallas for one is NOT a southwestern city anymore, with all the people there from somewhere else it’s not even really Texas, it’s more like LA-East, which is very bad. Don’t compare yourself to Dallas, Austin and Ft Worth are good southwestern cities, so is Phoenix. Denver too. I don’t think there is a negative stereotype about southwestern the way there is about southern.

It’s just a facet of being the state in the middle. Kansas is midwestern, Missouri is midwestern with a southern flair in the southern parts of the state, Arkansas and Louisiana are southern, Texas, New Mexico and Colorado are all firmly southwestern states. Oklahoma is probably majority southwestern with the northeast being mid-western and the southeast being southern.

[HOT ROD]

I totally agree Nuclear.

I was thinking Tulsa is definitely Midwestern, like Indy (but I agree that KC probably is a better sister city example for Tulsey Town).

OKC is definitely Southwestern, MUCH LIKE DENVER!!! You guys dont realize it, but OKC is very very very similar to Denver (minus the natural topography of course), but the city layout, the economy (minus ski-industry of course), so on... I honestly think we are more similar to Denver than any other city!

And Denver is the hub of the SouthWest US.

We should really visit Denver and try to model them. I used to live in Denver and it is a GREAT CITY! Not too big like Chicago and New York, but not small either - it has everything you could want to do but not as many problems. Denver has very many upscale areas like Tulsa but with a southwestern twist (as opposed to Tulsa's grandiose Midwestern twist). Cherry Creek, S. Colorado, Central Denver, there are many upscale areas.

Even downtown Denver and OKC are similar. Denver has much more office space but both cities are laid out pretty similar (although downtown Denver angles different from the rest of the city - similar to how downtown Tulsa streets angle). LoDo is a thriving urban area of downtown that was spurred by a ballpark - Coors Field, just like Bricktown. Denver has a compact CBD just like OKC. Denver has a million hotel rooms downtown and OKC is getting there. The main thing OKC needs to work on downtown in following Denver, would be a pedestrian retail "mall" somewhat similar to tulsa's Main Mall (i believe).

The 16 street pedestrian mall in Denver is the central transit hub for both the light rail system and the city bus, it is about 12 blocks long and has free shuttle bus service down its length. At the mall, you can find just about anything. It is the centre of denver retail and one of the best things that sets downtown denver apart from the rest. (By the way, downtown Vancouver also has a pedestrian mall - called Granville street. I wonder if Denver copied Vancouver?)

Nonetheless. Im glad we all agreed on something with our Tulsa compatriats - That our state is sort of split in personality. I think it is what makes OK a great state and it is something we should embrace.

Dont want to bash Dallas, but it is about time we move away from wanting to be like them. Lets try for Denver instead. We will never (probably) have the landscaping that Denver has BUT OKC is already very similar to Denver.

Another note about Denver, they have many, many trees in the city - even though Denver's climate is way more ARID than OKC!!! Bet you didnt know that Denver was dryer than OKC? Denver also has an AMAZING bike trail system that is really a freeway network for bicycles! I used to cycle there, and would go from my penthouse in Downtown Denver, to the southern suburbs without leaving a paved, dedicated bike freeway complete with signage, roadway dividers and markers, and even a few bike stop lights. The system ties in to existing parks and employment centres, so you could literally bike to work in about 30 minutes!! Safely!!!!

Pretty impressive!

Maybe Denver is what we should shoot for!

[HOT ROD]

And yes, there is NOTHING wrong with being southwestern!!

Honestly, I think Chicago is in its own league. I always think of it as being Great Lakes or even East Coast because of its location and it is just like New York! It really is the 2nd City, and really no other city in the nation is like it.

When I think of Midwestern cities, I think of KC, Indy, MSP, Cincy, Des Moines (ok, a tier lower but hey it is midwestern). I think Tulsa does fit that crowd, all great cities and all think/act/feel similarly. Midwestern cities tend to be more compact, with sprawling metro areas - not really suburbs, but unincorporated areas outside of the central city. Tulsa is a perfect example of this! As is KC.

When I think of Southwestern cities, I think of Denver, Phoenix, Austin, ABQ, and OKC. Although OKC gets the most rain out of the list, it feels/acts/thinks similar to them. I think Ft Worth is similar but much more southern, as is Houston. Dallas well, no idea what dallas is. Southwestern cities themselves tend to be more spread out, with lots of suburbs on the fringes and not much unincorporated areas. OKC definitely fits this, as does Denver!

I do think this is a great analogy for our state's two cities.

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Simillar skyline? But yes, I suppose you have somepoints. Though Denver is much colder, more urban, and more expensive. More liberal, worse traffic, the list goes on and on. Denver has no stereotypes either.




Am I missing something?

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

Oh. I get your draft now. Both have a "land run", "southwestern" feel. While Denver is more, how do you say, "cosmopolitan", both cities are somewhat "progressive". OKC addressed it's main problem, the awful downtown with MAPS and the ENTIRE metro is benefitting. Denver addressed their main problem with TREX, which will relieve a lot of freeway bottleneck.

[HOT ROD]

Both cities are cowtowns, well former cowtowns that are pretty cosmopolitan. I would say OKC has a more diverse population than Denver (as the only other ethnicity in Denver than Caucasian is Hispanic), OKC has decent numbers of asians, indians, and europeans as well as hispanics. In fact, OKCs numbers are bigger than Denver's - except hispanic.

I think OKC is bigger (city pop wise) than Denver as well. But both are the epitomy of Southwest! Boom Town, big city with nothing around them.

If it werent for Colorado's mountains, well - Denver would be the only thing in the state. It is the biggest city in the Rockies and is a major base for the Federal government and home to the most telephony type companies. OKC is also a major base for the Feds but has a more diverse economy than Denver.

But, I think OKC is very similar to Den. Dont be fooled, Denver's skyscrapers are only 50 storeys, and thats for three of them (I used to work on the 45th floor of one of them - QWEST then US WEST, the tall one on the right in your pic). The rest are in the thirties and less. Denver has a butt load of hotels though. That was my first comment when my extended family came to visit, was the amount of downtown hotels - every chain is represented in Downtown Denver!

[HOT ROD]

Oh, I almost forgot.

Both Denver and Oklahoma City are capital cities and principal cities in their state and region!

Anothe interesting point, Denver states that it is the biggest city for 600 miles; you will not find a bigger city than Denver for 600 miles. Guess who is 600 miles from Denver (the next, closest big city)?

You guessed it, Oklahoma City!!!

[xrayman]

****** REALITY CHECK ******

Now we are comparing Oklahoma City to - Denver?

"I think OKC is bigger (city pop wise) than Denver as well. But both are the epitomy of Southwest! Boom Town, big city with nothing around them."

I still think it's best dealing in - reality.

City (Proper) population figures 2000 census:

Denver: 554, 636
OKC : 506,132

But does that tell any kind of story at all? Denver's 554,000 people is not why they are a boomtown, have the Denver Broncos, the Colorado Rockies, and continue to have soaring job growth and huge population growth over the last ten years. City (proper) populations say nothing. Business looks at what used to be called the SMSA - now called the MSA. This is the metropolitan area of a given city.

Now, let's look again:

City (Metropolitan) population figures - 2003 ASC Profile - U.S. Census Bureau:

Denver: 2,109,283
OKC : 1,083,346

In other words: Metro Denver is twice as big as Metro Oklahoma City.

Oklahoma City is a great city. We are on the verge of great things. However, the constant comparisons to other cities that attempt to show we are "one of the big boys" ("bigger than Denver") actually hurts what we are all trying to do. To use a sports analogy - You can't make yourself believe you're near the top of the division, when in fact, you are hovering around the middle of the pack. Only with an accurate intelligence report on your competition, and accurate appraisals of your own team, can you go into a contest with a solid game plan.

Metro Oklahoma City is nowhere close to being as large as metropolitan Denver. Denver is closing in on being one of America's top 15 metro areas in population. Oklahoma City continues to be around 34-35 depending on MSA or Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area.

****** End of Reality Check ******

[HOT ROD]

I thought Denver had lost population (down to 440K but maybe that was KC), at least it did when I lived there in the mid 1990s.

No one said that OKC was better than Denver, I said OKC is very similar to denver and much more diverse.

I know Denver has all the sports teams, I used to live there! Denver has ALWAYS been a major league sports town, as it was long time the biggest city in the Rockies. They wanted it to have all of the big city amenities, hence every major league has a team in Denver!

And I know Metro Denver is twice as big as OKC's. OKC is definitely more diverse, sure Denver has more Hispanics but OKC has more variety (and more Asians!).

You dont have to quote census figures (which are wrong anyways). I know from living in both places, that Denver and OKC are similar Southwestern Big Cities.

I dont consider Denver's growth in the same category as you put it. OKC grew faster from 1990-2000. Another note, Metro Denver covers an unimagineable area in size! from the west in the foothills of the Rockies to the eastern plains is some 75 miles, and North at Northglenn down to Castle Rock is another 75 miles. 75 miles times 75 miles. CRAZY!

Im not sure if Metro OKC is that big in area, but I know both are very spead out.
And both cities are similar. Both are boomtowns!

Xray, I said they are similar - not that OKC is better. OK? Great.

[xrayman]

Xray, I said they are similar - not that OKC is better. OK? Great.

Don't get angry. I didn't think you were claiming OKC was "better." You expressed a view in such a way that made OKC sound "bigger" than Denver. It sounded to rah rah and frankly, I don't see the similarities. Denver is considered a city that has "arrived".....Oklahoma City, while growing and is getting there, is still waiting for her boat to come in. We can't fool ourselves. The fact OKC has more Asians is interesting, but has no effect whatsoever on anything. OKC did not - by the way - grow faster in the nineties than did metro Denver. Not even close. The census figures, while not perfect, is what we all go by.

I didn't mean it personal, Hot Rod.

[Midtowner]

Both cities cover land area and have people other than whites... Yeah, they're pretty darned similar! I'll bet the people in both cities breathe air also.

amirite?

[Sooner&RiceGrad]

But both are the epitomy of Southwest! Boom Town, big city with nothing around them.

Ahem. Tulsa is just 90 miles up the road from us, and I believe Colorado Springs is simillar. Also, OKC is by no means more cosmopolitan than Denver (In fact I am so backward I see this as good ).

Plus, I think you were thinking of Austin as the city that lost inner city population. That was due to the annexation San Marcos made of some suburbs.

Now, we have nothing in common with Austin so please don't go there.

Although Denver IS a fine city, don't get me wrong.