Air Service

[mranderson]

"It does no good whatsoever to write on this forum how we need to build a football stadium, need non-stop flights, etc. when NONE of this can be supported! I remember a study in the eighties that showed Oklahoma City would get an NFL team far after cities of smaller size. Again, because of demographics."

OK. Then if you think you are so correct, then proove your case.

[Midtowner]

"It does no good whatsoever to write on this forum how we need to build a football stadium, need non-stop flights, etc. when NONE of this can be supported! I remember a study in the eighties that showed Oklahoma City would get an NFL team far after cities of smaller size. Again, because of demographics."

OK. Then if you think you are so correct, then proove your case.

How's this:

Currently, we have no NFL team.

Currently, no one has ever expressed serious interest in an OKC NFL team. There was someone, a few years back who thought they could plop a stadium down in Stroud and have an OKC/Tulsa team, but that was over as quickly as it started.

I concur, we are going to have to bring more jobs to Oklahoma City (not call centers). We are going to have to have a LOT of them. Bring the jobs, bring the money, private enterprise will do its thang, and all your dreams will become realities, but not for a long, long time, and without a lot of investment.

These things you are talking about are not just around the corner, they're a long ways away.

And please, stop with this method:

OK. Then if you think you are so correct, then proove your case.

[/quote]

No, no, no... If you want to argue a point, have a discussion, whatever, you do not get to make statements like that. It is up to you, my sunshine pumping friend to prove that what you say is true. Here are some places you might look -- the Mayor's state of the city address, the Bricktown website, etc. Please make a case. Do not ask someone to do something that you are not willing to do yourself.

[mranderson]

"Currently, we have no NFL team.

Currently, no one has ever expressed serious interest in an OKC NFL team. There was someone, a few years back who thought they could plop a stadium down in Stroud and have an OKC/Tulsa team, but that was over as quickly as it started."

Actually that is not entirely true. In 1968, the Buffalo Bills had chosen Oklahoma City as a relocation city. However, the city of Buffalo made a last second deal to keep the team.

When the then St. Louis Cardinals moved, they wanted to move to Oklahoma City. The University of Oklahoma would not allow the NFL to use the stadium. Had we built a dome, we would have had the NFL.

Yes. A bit off topic. However, in defense of another flimsy argument against progress. Now. We need to stay on topic.

[xrayman]

"Currently, we have no NFL team. "

Actually that is not entirely true. In 1968, the Buffalo Bills had chosen Oklahoma City as a relocation city. However, the city of Buffalo made a last second deal to keep the team.

When the then St. Louis Cardinals moved, they wanted to move to Oklahoma City. The University of Oklahoma would not allow the NFL to use the stadium. Had we built a dome, we would have had the NFL.

Yes. A bit off topic. However, in defense of another flimsy argument against progress. Now. We need to stay on topic.

MrAnderson,

Who told you those stories? They are both, the Buffalo and St. Louis stories, not the slightest bit true. Neither one - at all. If you think for a second that the Cardinals would have chosen OKC (in 1988!) over Phoenix......look......Bill Bidwell never entertained the idea of moving the football Cardinals to Oklahoma City at all. Whoever told you that was spinning tall tales. As for Buffalo, in 1968 they were an AFC team with Jack Kemp as quarterback and were busy drafting O.J. Simpson as running back. They would have no more moved the Bills out of Buffalo for Oklahoma City than the Rams would have moved to Lawton. Seriously, who told you those stories? Off-topic? Yes, I suppose. But it seems that an NFL team for Oklahoma City seems to pop up in every other thread and it's downright silly.

.

[OUman]

Granted, demographics do play a role in determining how much air service you get, but let's consider a few things.

How is it that a city like Little Rock can get a daily nonstop to Orlando? We do have a lot of leisure traffic going to Orlando as well.

When Great Plains launched nonstop service between Oklahoma City and all the other cities like Austin, Nashville, Albuquerque and Colorado Springs, load factors were doing pretty good, most flights were almost full almost all the time. So it does mean that if given a reasonably priced option, passengers using OKC will prefer to go nonstop than waste time by going through DFW or any other hub for that matter. It doesn't matter that these cities aren't major business centers in the eastern or western U.S, or that we're talking about 32-seat RJ's, the point is people were able to go nonstop where they wanted to go and w/o wasting an entire day flying. Too bad GP Airlines went into bankruptcy and liquidation.

When the expansion plan for the airport was announced, WRA's passenger traffic was appraching 3.5 million. It still hasn't gone above 3.5, but it has come close. Now the past year we had almost 3.4 mil, and if this year is just as good or better in traffic growth, it would make sense to go ahead and build the east concourse. The reason it was delayed was because of the drop in passenger numbers. WRA's fast regaining those passengers.

Then the airlines. When Reno Air went out of business and American bought it, it continued Reno's two daily nonstops between Las Vegas and Oklahoma City, then after six months, it dumped those. Why? No one has a clue, but American's lame excuse was the market wasn't supportive enough. Really. So I guess that's why Las Vegas was our sixth most popular destination and still is, and now we have two airlines (beginning in May, three airlines) providing service to that city. And all flights are doing pretty good.

Continental Express started nonstops between Oklahoma City and Newark, charging ridiculous fares and having somewhat bad flight times. Then Continental Express adjusted the flight times and reduced the roundtrip fare to make it reasonable, and the load factor went up from around 37% to over 60%, and the flights are doing pretty good now. Atleast that's the last I heard about them.

We should have atleast one daily departure to Orlando, I guess we're the only major city in the nation w/o nonstop service there. And it's not because of demographics, I know there are plenty of people who can afford to go to Orlando and would go on a reasonably-priced nonstop flight rather than having to connect at the Atlanta or Dallas airports.

So, the point of my rant is, if the airlines recognized this market a bit more, and our airport got its other concourse, we would definitely be able to support more nonstop flights than we have right now. Maybe not a hub, but flights to cities like Orlando and Los Angeles would definitely be welcome. And in this day of regional jets, it's definitely possible.

OUman

[OUman]

Ahh, one more thing, sorry, but I had to include this. In the past five years or so, we have gained nonstops to Detroit, Newark, Minneapolis-St. Paul and Las Vegas. So Oklahoma City can support non-stop flights to destinations other than Dallas-Ft. Worth, Kansas City, Houston, etc.

OUman

[HOT ROD]

Ahh, one more thing, sorry, but I had to include this. In the past five years or so, we have gained nonstops to Detroit, Newark, Minneapolis-St. Paul and Las Vegas.

So Oklahoma City can support non-stop flights to destinations other than Dallas-Ft. Worth, Kansas City, Houston, etc.

OUman

yes

[HOT ROD]

One more thing that OKC MUST JUMP IN ON!!!!!

"State officials are bidding to bring an aircraft plant to either Oklahoma City or Tulsa."

http://www.kotv.com/main/home/storie...age=1&id=80853

OKC needs to land this plant, I think Wiley Post airport is the perfect location for it, as it would not interfere with the commercial traffic at the Internaitonal Airport plus it already has the FAA and runways.

Who cares if Airbus is a european consortium, we need hi quality hi paying jobs in this city!

What do you all think?

[swake]

I think one of the requirements for the base is a deep water port. OKC does not have that, and Tulsa only kind of does.

[HOT ROD]

Sure, so why not have both cities share.

Honestly, I dont really see the need for a deep water port. We at Boeing wanted that also, but it turns out we really are not going to use it in Everett. We are developing other technologies I can not really discuss with you at this time.

as it turns out, shipping by sea just takes too long, especially when you have partners and suppliers in every direction around the globe. OKC, dont be shy'd away from this because you dont have a deepwater port. Tulsa may have one, but that does not mean much anymore with the new technology for transport now days.

If it does become Airbus's build requirement, then share it with Tulsa - letting them handle logistics and transportation to OKC via rail or truck and OKC have the fab and final assembly. That is our current model for nearly every airplane program we have at Boeing, including the program that Tulsa just recently lost out on.

I think the best option could be for both to share. Why not have the whole state benefit? but OKC needs some more aviation. Tulsa has gotten the lions share of this for so long and now TUL is running out of facilities. This is why I recommend not locating it there or at Will Rogers but locate it at Wiley Post, our releaver airport.

But having Tulsa serve as the logistics point may prove very beneficial and cost efficient, following the models we currently use in the airplane business. Although a deep water port is not required or necessary anymore, they are useful to have around for emergencies or large batch orders (which we almost do not do anymore).

[swake]

Exactly HOW is Tulsa running out of facilities for aerospace?

Bizjet is expanding, as is Boeing (now Onex) and there is a ton on land around TIA to build new plants, especially as more and more homes are taken for noise abatement.

Tulsa has the worker and knowledge base in this industry that OKC does not. And a port. Tulsa is a long shot, and OKC was never in the running. And this plane ever even being built is kind of a long shot.

[HOT ROD]

Exactly HOW is Tulsa running out of facilities for aerospace?

Bizjet is expanding, as is Boeing (now Onex) and there is a ton on land around TIA to build new plants, especially as more and more homes are taken for noise abatement.

Tulsa has the worker and knowledge base in this industry that OKC does not. And a port. Tulsa is a long shot, and OKC was never in the running. And this plane ever even being built is kind of a long shot.

Keep dreaming SWAKE! Im not in OKC so I am not intimidated by your small time tactics above. Plain and simple, neither city can really compete with the attitude demonstrated by you and most from your city. Just wait, and Wichita will get the plant (actually a better player than both OKC or Tulsa)!

You think Tulsa is all that, please... You need to wake up and smell the roses, it must make you feel good to say that OKC is a long shot - why then did you post you "fear" of OKC on the TulsaNow? Come out and say it, otherwise you need to stay on the sidelines.

I for one, do not play by your Okie-Dokie Tulsa games. All you guys on TulsaNow are just a bunch of hot air, little brats so to speak mad at the big brother who for so long had a self esteem problem.

Oh, and by the way, your statement above (Bizjet is expanding, as is Boeing (now Onex)) only proves my point about Tulsa running out of space at TUL. You can take that as an attack, but I was actually commenting positively about your small little so called airport. There IS a reason we (Boeing) sold Tulsa's facility, by the way!

You (Tulsa) will NEVER!!! compete with big boys like us, so go back to TulsaNow and sulk like everyone else there until you have something constructive to bring to this forum.

Continue the Renaissance Of Oklahoma City!

[swake]

Ha ha,

Killing me, really

Wichita and Tulsa have much the same sized aerospace industry. OKC does not. Seattle/Tacoma is the biggest player in this field, but I really don't see Airbus going there, do you? Boeing in Tulsa/OKC was sold for the same reason Boeing in St Louis was sold (another big aerospace city) so that Boeing could inflict more price pressure and not have to cover pensions and fight unions.

Mobile is reportedly the leader here. Wichita has no port at all so Tulsa should be ahead of Wichita. OKC has no port and no aerospace industry to speak of outside of Tinker. I have no idea what kind of aerospace Moblie has, it might be much the same as OKC with Pensacola right next door. And again, I bet this plane is never built.

By the way, have you ever even been to Tulsa, or the airport here? Tulsa's little airport is the home of the largest aircraft maintence base in the nation. FYI.

[swake]

See, I said nothing inflammatory, but the thin skinned hot heads here like to start blasting.

wah, wah, crying like babies when confronted by facts and constructive critisism.

For Tulsa to succeed long term this state must change, for the state to change OKC must change. OKC must be a cleaner, more attractive city, must be better educated and have a better average income, and must be much more tolerant. Remaining insular and afraid to confront reality does not improve those issues.

[mranderson]

I am flying America West to Sacramento on May 28 and returning June 6. I will try and take some pictures of the America West area at Will Rogers and add them to the gallery. It may be hard because a lady friend of mine just happens to be on that same flight by coincidence. It will give a good look at the new terminal.