Universities/Colleges and downtown OKC

[Midtowner]

BTW, OCU has about 3,600 students split almost equally between undergrads and grad students.

OUHSC has about 3,800 students, with 800 undergrads and 3,000 grad students.

It would be great to have another school (or a branch of an existing one) directly in downtown but considering all the current students within a couple of miles, it would make a lot of sense to concentrate on integrating those campuses with the downtown districts.

That is something the community can do now, rather than waiting for someone to put in a new school.

Whatever would happen would probably have to be private. Our state's higher ed system is suffering from a major budget crunch.

Consider: If the richest school in the state (OU) has had to institute a hiring freeze, where do you think they will find the money to open up a downtown extension?

[BG918]

Whatever would happen would probably have to be private. Our state's higher ed system is suffering from a major budget crunch.

Consider: If the richest school in the state (OU) has had to institute a hiring freeze, where do you think they will find the money to open up a downtown extension?

Exactly, OU isn't opening up a new branch anywhere when they are trying to expand the Norman campus, OUHSC, and the one in Tulsa while the state continues to CUT their funding. OSU-OKC is fine at the campus they have off NW 10th with room to expand. OCCC could open a downtown campus, like TCC's Metro campus in downtown Tulsa, but is there a need?? I think there are higher priorities that need to be addressed first, the first of which could link the existing (and growing) universities to downtown: RAIL.

[ssandedoc]

I doubt OCCC will put a branch campus in downtown OKC anytime soon, they just expanded the school with a new Health center, Science & math center, and liberal arts/theatre. Three new buildings in the past three years.

Everyone is forgetting that the Ron Norrick Library downtown hosts classes. Besides, we really don't need a university presence downtown when OCU is within 5 mins, and OCCC in 10 mins. It's not like there are NO universities around.

[Pete]

the quality of the education received has absolutely zero to do with the ranking of the school. The school's ranking is determined mostly by the LSAT score and GPA of the people the school rejects. Ranking has zero to do with the quality of professors, etc. Ranking is more of a "prestige" thing than a quality thing.

I'm not trying to argue that OCU doesn't have a good law school or that rankings mean everything.

But they do matter... Helps schools attract better students and professors, get lots more applicants, etc. And they matter enough that every school is consciously trying to raise their score/ranking.

And there are lots of things that are taken into consideration in addition to what you mentioned:

Law Methodology - US News and World Report

[Pete]

To further my point about the Health Center, here are some aerials and diagrams from their master plan.

Shows you how close it is to downtown (actually directly borders it) and how they hope to tie it all together with a streetcar / light rail system.

Also, here's some numbers to impress upon you how huge this complex is:

The CDB has 5.5 million square feet of space (6.6 if you add in Devon's current building and the SandRidge properties) but the HSC has 7.7 million with another 1.7 million either under construction or to be completed within the next five years.

That means even after Devon Tower is finished, the HSC will have more square footage than the CBD. It's like we have two downtowns that are far too disjointed!

[bombermwc]

The main problem with a univeristy being downtown is land prices. If you want a D1 campus, that means you're creating a research university. That means you need a HUGE campus. The only reason why OU and OSU are as large as they are, is beacuse they were able to grab those big chunks of land and then grow later. If you put something downtown, it's basically NOT going to be a research university. It's going to be just like Xavier in NOLA. You get a little mid-rise and a few other buildings and that's it. It's not exactlly impressive and doesn't really help downtown. Schools like that generally control their student population so they don't cause issues downtown as well. It's just not the same type of university environment.

[rinni]

The Downtown College Consortium offers classes from Oklahoma City Community College, Oklahoma State University-Oklahoma City, Redlands Community College, Rose State College, and University of Central Oklahoma. I took an Art History class offered by the consortium and held at the Museum of Art and was very impressed with the quality of instruction.

[Kerry]

The main problem with a univeristy being downtown is land prices. If you want a D1 campus, that means you're creating a research university. That means you need a HUGE campus. The only reason why OU and OSU are as large as they are, is beacuse they were able to grab those big chunks of land and then grow later. If you put something downtown, it's basically NOT going to be a research university. It's going to be just like Xavier in NOLA. You get a little mid-rise and a few other buildings and that's it. It's not exactlly impressive and doesn't really help downtown. Schools like that generally control their student population so they don't cause issues downtown as well. It's just not the same type of university environment.

I beg to differ.

Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions - An Introduction to Columbia
Georgia State University Georgia State University Core Foundation

and those are just 2 that I know of. If you look at Europe, many of the Universities hold class in office buildings.

[CCOKC]

My husband received his Masters in Taxation from Depaul's graduate school which is located in downtown Chicago. His professors were mostly practicing Partners with the big firms and the students were like him working downtown where he worked. If these classes were held at DePaul's main campus it is highly unlikely he would have ever had the time to finish his degree.

[bombermwc]

So are we seriously comparing downtown OKC to CHICAGO AND NYC!!?!??? I think we're about 6 million people short to be starting that one folks. No crap they have to do it because otherwise where else are they going to put a school. That's not how OKC works.

[amaesquire]

Well, this an interesting topic for me, having graduated from OBU in 2004 and OCU Law in 2007.

I appreciate OBU's presence in downtown, however it is a niche graduate program focusing only in nursing and business.

I would anticipate a move downtown by OCU, more specifically the law school, before any state-funded university.

In regards to quality, I would say that my undergraduate work made me feel more prepared for law school than many of my state school peers. Additionally, which school you choose is a choice one makes based on many factors. I was accepted into the OU College of Law but opted for OCU because of the smaller class size. Tier 1 2 3 or 4 was not a part of my decision making process. I wanted the JD and to pass the Bar. Now that I have been in practice for almost a year, where I went to law school becomes less and less important to me and to those I come into contact with at the courthouse.

[rinni]

I received my MBA from OCU in 1997 (yes, I'm old). At that time, classes were offered off-campus on NW Expressway. I went to a function at OCU lately and saw one of my professors who said that the Meinders school is only offering classes in their beautiful new building. I think that is wise because although I am an OCU alum, I am not at all familiar with campus. The only time that I visited the campus was to pay my tuition. You definitely miss part of the experience by taking off-campus classes exclusively.

[wsucougz]

This is probably our best chance for getting a real streetcar system going. At a minimum, once this loop is constructed, we could expand out from there but maybe it would be decided to just expand it from the getgo.

I'm guessing whoever at the health center is making these recommendations has some muscle.

[Midtowner]

I would anticipate a move downtown by OCU, more specifically the law school, before any state-funded university.

That won't be happening. I understand plans have been in the works for awhile to build a new law library and expand the existing law school. I think the plan is to give Gold Star back to the University.

Especially since so many are opting for the JD/MBA route these days, I don't think the law school is likely to move off campus.

[Pete]

This is probably our best chance for getting a real streetcar system going. At a minimum, once this loop is constructed, we could expand out from there but maybe it would be decided to just expand it from the getgo.

Agreed!

At least this way you have lots of private business behind the idea.

Seems like it would be easy to run it up the Lincoln median to the Capitol complex and then onwards to the Adventure District. Would be nice to tie in OCU at some point, too.

If we could make that happen -- especially with the tie in to the emerging Midtown / Deep Deuce / Flatiron / CBD residential districts, I think the whole area would explode with infill developments.

[HOT ROD]

BG, I agree RAIL is and should be the #1 priority for the city - but having a school in downtown 'helps' build momentum for the downtown streetcar, that along with the new rooftops and corporate jobs in the CBD and surroundings.

I think we could do both, or at least develop a master plan for downtown which has a large public or private school campus in downtown (ala Portland State University) or a consortium of schools with a single large campus (ala Denver's Auraria campus).

I also think we should do what we can to get OCU and OU students INTO downtown OKC! Like I said, there's more Norman students in downtown than EITHER OKC schools - which is sad. Why is OCU so lame when it comes to partying/showing school colours in the city/downtown?

Like it or not - KIDS (young adults) in downtown is indicative of VIBRANCY! And that is something we need in downtown OKC way more than just concentrating on families.

[ssandedoc]

Okay, thinking about this a little bit more. I would be in favor of a downtown college. It stinks commuting from South OKC to Edmond for school. It would be nice to have a downtown college campus to cut down commute times for people. But also, it would be a nice addition to the growing downtown/bricktown community.

Then again, we already have the Downtown consortium, OBU Master's program, and OUHSC so a college or university would have to carve another niche into the market.

[Kerry]

I think some of you are missing the point of a downtown campus. Yes it is nice that people working downtown can get a degree after work hours but the real goal of a downtown campus is to put people on the street. Even if a small school with only 500 students had a campus downtown and the students lived on campus it would go a long ways towards building up downtown.

What good does it do for downtown if Johnny Suburb leaves downtown at 6:30PM instead of 5PM? We need students living downtown that study in a Midtown Barnes and Nobel at 11PM.

[ssandedoc]

I think some of you are missing the point of a downtown campus. Yes it is nice that people working downtown can get a degree after work hours but the real goal of a downtown campus is to put people on the street. Even if a small school with only 500 students had a campus downtown and the students lived on campus it would go a long ways towards building up downtown.

What good does it do for downtown if Johnny Suburb leaves downtown at 6:30PM instead of 5PM? We need students living downtown that study in a Midtown Barnes and Nobel at 11PM.

Okay so maybe we need a bricktown Barnes and Noble/outdoor mall near a campus. I'd be all for something facing the canal that looks classy.

[BostonUpoke]

I wish OCU would focus on what the University of Tulsa has been doing. I mean Tulsa is THE top ranked school in the state! This shocked me and when I saw this but it is true. OCU and Tulsa re really similar in terms of demographics but in terms of perception and rankings, it is no contest.

I also noticed OU sinking like a rock in the latest law school rankings. I believe the dropped from the high 20's to the high 60's. That is a huge drop considering there are only around 150 ABA law schools nationwide. OCU and Tulsa need to figure something out because we need them to get better.

[Midtowner]

OCU will be building a new law library and adding onto the law school in the next few years. That should help some.

Tulsa is going the other direction to help improve their rankings. They're just going to stop admitting so many students.

OU? Meh.. they'll just continue to charge half what the other two schools get and attract high LSAT scores who don't want to go deeply into debt to get their law degrees.

[HOT ROD]

Okay, thinking about this a little bit more. I would be in favor of a downtown college. It stinks commuting from South OKC to Edmond for school. It would be nice to have a downtown college campus to cut down commute times for people. But also, it would be a nice addition to the growing downtown/bricktown community.

Then again, we already have the Downtown consortium, OBU Master's program, and OUHSC so a college or university would have to carve another niche into the market.

ssand, those are all top degree programs; nothing for the common person/child/young person. This is what we want to attract to downtown - to develop that critical mass of creative knowledge class; you do it with a school (or consortium of schools with a campus) downtown - but it needs to be 2-year and/or undergraduate level.

I know there are Masters level programs already in downtown, see what vibe it has created? (I know, it's better than nothing, but still --- my point is using the downtown University or Consortium to create an urban vibe of YOUNG PEOPLE!!!).

Again, Portland State University - here's a link Portland State | Experience Portland State (bonus: Portland Streetcar in the film) and a map Portland State | Campus Map

Denver Auraria Campus - here's a link Auraria Higher Education Center and a great map Untitled Document (look how close it is to the downtown skyscrapers!

Either of these (or a combination) is what Im talking about. A school (or collage of them) for young people in downtown Oklahoma City! We have the graduate degrees covered already, we need to address higher education IN DOWNTOWN for young people/the knowledge class!

Besides, this will help LIFT the city's education ranks - giving people yet another option AND CAN IT GET MORE CENTRAL THAN DOWNTOWN???

I say it needs to be part of C2S and the new Central Park (I'd be willing to sacrafice Union Station for this in fact). ....

[HOT ROD]

I think some of you are missing the point of a downtown campus. Yes it is nice that people working downtown can get a degree after work hours but the real goal of a downtown campus is to put people on the street. Even if a small school with only 500 students had a campus downtown and the students lived on campus it would go a long ways towards building up downtown.

What good does it do for downtown if Johnny Suburb leaves downtown at 6:30PM instead of 5PM? We need students living downtown that study in a Midtown Barnes and Nobel at 11PM.

Kerry, again - we expats read each other's heads!!! I couldn't have said it better!

[jbrown84]

hmmm... that's interesting. i'm a neighbor (i live behind kamp's), so i like to keep up.
i hope that OBU isn't suffering the same fate. it was highly acclaimed when i attended, but haven't kept up.

OBU is still ranked very high. They also had their largest freshman class ever this fall.

OBU Named Best in the West by Princeton Review

OBU Named Top Oklahoma College for 15th Year.


Regarding their downtown campus, I expect it to expand in the coming years. They currently offer graduate degrees in Nursing and Business. OBU is likely bringing in William Underwood, the current president of Mercer University and former Baylor Interim President, as their new president with the idea of making OBU more in line with the size and scope of those Baptist universities.

[okcustu]

i think the reason most ocu students don't go downtown to "party" is because so many are out-of-towners, many gay students (who would rather go to 39th street) and many of the students just aren't the clubbing type. HELLO Hot Rod the main reason we aren't as visible is because we are so much smaller. also ocu doenst allow students to live of campus until 21 anyway