Universities/Colleges and downtown OKC

[HOT ROD]

I agree.

I just don't think Devon will dump a lot of space that would just sit there unused, that's all. We know there is demand downtown for Class A space, this will ONLY increase as we get the NBA and more events happening downtown, and more housing (and people inside them).

Im not saying we're going to see a whole slew of skyscrapers per say, but as Larry said - this should be the beginning and he's setting the bar high (literally).

Like I said, OKC got the Sonics - I think if the city/Chamber got to marketing OKC to companies; OKC could surely and easily pick up some offices; and one or two might even consider relocating altogether.

It all works hand in hand, the airport, downtown housing, downtown office space availability, downtown happenings, this creates the urban vibe which makes people want to be downtown. And when companies see this, they want to be there too if they desire to get the knowledge class working for them.

In all honesty, I wish OKC could get a college downtown. I knwo OBU is there, but im talking about a major university or even OCCC. I don't know why there is only one location - and its in SW OKC. Usually, Community colleges/2 year univs have more than one location. Here in Seattle, Sea Comm College has at least three branches that Im aware of (no downtown branch but does have capital Hill, which is close to downtown and very urban).

We need OCCC in downtown. (sorry, now back to highrises).

I do think Midfirst might construct a tower, but it would be leasible (which is great). They're our best hope imo - as an immediate/most likely followup to Devon Tower.

[Midtowner]

Regarding getting colleges downtown, I know the Price Business School (OU) offers downtown classes. There's also OBU.

I'm not sure why a university would want to offer undergrad courses downtown though. In other places like Seattle or Austin, the cities were planned with a university close to the central business area and the areas just grew together. With the rising cost of education and the problems related to these huge tuition hikes of late, I don't see much wisdom in opening up a hugely expensive downtown campus when one 15 minutes away will do the same job for a fraction of the money.

I would assume that most of the current downtown work force already has at least a bachelor's degree in something. Offering associate's degrees downtown doesn't seem to make much sense at all. If a private school wants to take a chance and bet on downtown, hey.. it's their money. But a public institution? No thanks.

[Pete]

The OU Health Sciences Center is only a mile away and the far southeast edge is only about half a mile from the western edge of the CBD.

I think the best plan is to build easy transportation between the two areas (along with the Capitol and St. Anthony's/Midtown) and all the areas would continue to feed off each other.

The HSC is massive and in the process of rapid expansion. We need to keep looking for ways to tie it together with downtown. And the more the area between is developed (Flatiron, The Triangle, Deep Deuce) the more they will come together.

[edcrunk]

In all honesty, I wish OKC could get a college downtown. I knwo OBU is there, but im talking about a major university or even OCCC.

hot rod, being an OBU alum... i'm a little puzzled by the above quote. what does OCCC have on a full fledge private university? OBU and OCU rival OU and OSU. it's just smaller and private.

[Rover]

No offense to OBU and OCU, but OU and OSU are comprehensive national universities with a greater variety of courses and majors and deeper Masters and Doctoral programs. They have comparatively huge research programs and hundreds of thousands of alumnae. OBU, St. Gregs, OCU are all great schools, but they are a different kind of school.

[edcrunk]

No offense to OBU and OCU, but OU and OSU are comprehensive national universities with a greater variety of courses and majors and deeper Masters and Doctoral programs. They have comparatively huge research programs and hundreds of thousands of alumnae. OBU, St. Gregs, OCU are all great schools, but they are a different kind of school.

different, but depending on what your degree is in... they are more comparable than a state college! you can't deny that one who attends a private university gets a whole lot more attention from the faculty and a degree that is just as impressive. OU or OSU could not have given me what i got from OBU.

[Midtowner]

No offense to OBU and OCU, but OU and OSU are comprehensive national universities with a greater variety of courses and majors and deeper Masters and Doctoral programs. They have comparatively huge research programs and hundreds of thousands of alumnae. OBU, St. Gregs, OCU are all great schools, but they are a different kind of school.

I'd put OCU or OBU ahead of OU or OSU in terms of the quality of their bachelor's programs.

As far as their Masters and Doctoral programs, that's also debatable. A J.D. at OCU is regarded as on-par with a J.D. from OU. OCU also offers several Masters programs which are not offered at OU (music management, for example).

We don't choose colleges based upon their extensive offerings of courses. We choose our colleges based upon the particular course of study we're interested in.

[Midtowner]

different, but depending on what your degree is in... they are more comparable than a state college! you can't deny that one who attends a private university gets a whole lot more attention from the faculty and a degree that is just as impressive. OU or OSU could not have given me what i got from OBU.

I did my undergrad work at UCO. I got basically the same faculty attention I would have received if I had attended OCU. Class sizes were great as well as opportunities for campus involvement.

[edcrunk]

I did my undergrad work at UCO. I got basically the same faculty attention I would have received if I had attended OCU. Class sizes were great as well as opportunities for campus involvement.

uco is a 4 year university. i'm simply saying that a community college is a notch below any 4 year university and private universities can be comparable in many ways to the "major" universities.

[Rover]

Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. However, apparently it might surprise some on here to know that just because a school is private and small that it isn't necessarily better. OU has become an excellent university in many areas and offers experiences and opportunities smaller schools rarely can. OU's extensive research experiences allows many students opportunities to work extensively on cutting edge activities in many fields. Many scholar programs there allow for small classes with world class professors. There are many opportunities both culturally and socially, as well as academically that are available that are not at most small schools. And though it is not necessarily essential for an "academic" experience, the level of other activities such as athletics makes for a well rounded development of individuals and groups.

So don't be so elitist and assume because your school was smaller it was better. The are indeed programs and activities which may be better at some smaller schools, but to deny what is going on at OU is just narrow mindedness.

[Midtowner]

Rover, many majors do not require extensive research experiences. Students will only interact with a few faculty members out of the hundreds or thousands on the university's payroll. It is that particular interaction and the quality of that interaction which matters.

Sure -- if I'm a biotechnology major or biostatistics major, OU would be the obvious choice.

If, however, I intend to major in something which is not a research degree, why settle for being in a class of 200+ when at other schools (and in UCO's case, for less money), I can be in the same class with 30 students, tops?

[edcrunk]

heh, rover, i was in no way dissing OU. just saying that it is comparable to the "major universities" when my alma mater was compared to a community college. OU couldn't give me the in depth scripture studies and ministry training i was seeking and i simply used that fact to further the argument that in some ways they are on the same footing.

[Rover]

Guess you just can't break some from believing in their old stereotypes. People need to wake up to what is happening TODAY and not 30 years ago. Just like OKC is moving into more elite status, so is OU. Class size, professor quality, endowed chairs and programs, elite facilities, outstanding competition, comprehensive programs and other improvements have helped OU improve its standing as a quality institution of learning. Again, not demeaning any other university, but failure to recognize quality there is just ignorance of the facts.

Some want small school feel and some want what is available at larger, more comprehensive schools. Each has its advantages. But back to topic, the attraction of a major involvement in downtown by OU or OSU would be much more influential than that of a small private school with limited financial means and fewer alumnae. Sometimes bigger IS better, and being a magnet is one of those times. Tell me who has helped Austin more, UT or St. Edwards. Both are excellent schools, but one is much more important to the Austin and Texas economy and development.

[soonerguru]

Didn't OCU's law school nearly lose accreditation recently? It's certainly not highly rated. My sister went there and found the undergrad courses to be unimaginatively taught, and the student body not all that impressive. Her overall impression is that it is overpriced and overrated, but it doesn't seem to rate very high in most surveys. Not picking on OCU, but it is not considered an elite university by any stretch.

[edcrunk]

hmmm... that's interesting. i'm a neighbor (i live behind kamp's), so i like to keep up.
i hope that OBU isn't suffering the same fate. it was highly acclaimed when i attended, but haven't kept up.

[HOT ROD]

all successful major cities have significant university presence in or near their downtown. Sorry, but Oklahoma Health Science Center doesn't qualify - since it has a very restrictive acceptance and target. Also it is far enough away that there is really no connection to downtown (nor do students go downtown in a visible mass).

Im talking about a general university or even community college, where young people will take classes close to or IN downtown. OCU is close, but so far their enrollment is not large enough nor do they partake in downtown enough to make a difference. and once again, OCU's students are HARDLY visible, if at all in downtown. In fact, Im sure there's more OU (Norman) students in downtown on a regular basis than ANY university or college ACTUALLY based in OKC - which is sad.

For example of what Im talking about, look to Denver. Their Auraria Campus is a collage of community colleges and universities - to create a downtown education resource that appeals to both business workers and young people alike. Portland is an even greater example (with Portland State University - the largest university in the state of Oregon, which happens to be in downtown Portland and accessible via the Portland Streetcar).... What this sort of campus did is create an urban vibe that when you visit Denver or Portland; you think of it as a happening and successful city because of all of the young people IN DOWNTOWN.

MidTowner, I beg to differ - I would say MOST downtown workers in OKC don't have an advanced degree but would be willing to stay later after work a night or two to accomplish such.

OBU is a great start, but it is a small one at best, to me much like Devry. Im talking about an actual campus (small, but still). It could be part of Core 2 Shore and tie in with the Central Park - but I think a great move would be to have a 2nd Oklahoma City community college and locate it downtown in C2S.

Again, we need downtown and OKC to be appealing to more than JUST families (especially when the median age of OKC is actually very young by comparison - and we want these young people to stay)!

[BG918]

With the Edmond-Norman commuter rail line you have the opportunity to directly connect both UCO and OU to downtown OKC. While it's not the same as having a campus directly downtown it is better than what we have now. The station in downtown Edmond would be about 5 blocks from UCO while the station in Norman would actually be on the OU campus by the Duck Pond and stadium at Brooks (in addition to the station in downtown Norman). Light rail/streetcar would connect the OUHSC to downtown. If we ever end up rebuilding the streetcar line down Classen that would better connect Oklahoma City University to downtown and vice versa. With rail OKC has the unique opportunity to connect three major universities and the OUHSC together and to downtown. Connecting to OU and its 25,000+ students and UCO with its 10,000+ students could potentially be one of the best things for downtown's future growth. It's only a train ride away...

[Pete]

I agree completely BG and the best way for OKC to grow is to attract and retain young, creative entrepreneurs and start-up technology and bio-tech firms.

And that all begins with very good universities in the area. It's the reason I've said over and over again that OKC & OU need strong ties as it would help both. And better connections between both OCU and UCO and downtown -- both transportation and business -- would help even more.



I was just in Milwaukee and walked about an 8-mile loop from south of downtown (their historic Third Ward) all the way up to UW-Milwaukee. Their entire downtown is vibrant with tons of retail, condos (both warehouse conversions and high-rises) art museums and great little neighborhoods. Lots of young people down there yet Marquette is a mile west and UWM is about 2-3 miles north.

What's different is that the students there can move freely downtown and to what is effectively their Bricktown and Midtown areas.

[Kerry]

I grew up in Chico, California and we had Chico St. University directly adjacent to our downtown. It was a pedistrian heavy area. When I lived in Tampa the university of Tampa is located downtown. Here in Atlanta, Georgia Tech and Georgia State are located downtown/midtown.

I think OKC would be much better if there was a university located in or adjacent to downtown. I would like to see Oklahoma City Polytechnic or something. Even it it only had a few hundred students to start out with it would make a huge impact.

[sroberts24]

how about OU/OKC campus downtown

[Midtowner]

Didn't OCU's law school nearly lose accreditation recently? It's certainly not highly rated. My sister went there and found the undergrad courses to be unimaginatively taught, and the student body not all that impressive. Her overall impression is that it is overpriced and overrated, but it doesn't seem to rate very high in most surveys. Not picking on OCU, but it is not considered an elite university by any stretch.

Actually, OU's law school almost lost accreditation a little more recently. OCU did as well, but not so recently as OU. OCU still rejects 57% of their applicants, no it's not "elite," but "eliteness" in the law school world is based upon how many and the quality of the students you reject. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the professors, the ties to government and local law firms, the quality of the facilities, etc.

Law school accreditation is a funny thing. It has more to do with the quality of the library (which no one actually uses the books in since everything you need is online), the quality of the facilities, the amenities, etc. than the credentials of the professors, the actual classroom experience, bar passage rates and job placement.

The main thing that's holding OCU back in terms of attracting more elite students is that they charge (this semester, I believe) $970/credit hour which is about $200 higher than TU and almost double what they're charging at OU.

[Pete]

US News & World Report always has OU in it's top tier of law schools -- this year at #68.

OCU is considered a tier 4 school.

I don't think you'll find any objective ranking where OU is not rated significantly above OCU and Tulsa.

Search - Law - Best Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report

[BG918]

We are way off topic here but US News & World Report always has OU in it's top tier of law schools -- this year at #68.

OCU is considered a tier 4 school.

I don't think you'll find any objective ranking where OU is not rated significantly above OCU and Tulsa.

Search - Law - Best Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report

If OU hadn't already built a big expansion to its law center in Norman I'd say they should relocate to downtown OKC, in a new tower (back on topic!). OU's medical school is in OKC after all. But it's in Norman to stay even though its location is not that great away from the heart of campus by apartments and the baseball stadium.

[Pete]

BTW, OCU has about 3,600 students split almost equally between undergrads and grad students.

OUHSC has about 3,800 students, with 800 undergrads and 3,000 grad students.

It would be great to have another school (or a branch of an existing one) directly in downtown but considering all the current students within a couple of miles, it would make a lot of sense to concentrate on integrating those campuses with the downtown districts.

That is something the community can do now, rather than waiting for someone to put in a new school.

[Midtowner]

I don't think you'll find any objective ranking where OU is not rated significantly above OCU and Tulsa.

Like I said, the quality of the education received has absolutely zero to do with the ranking of the school. The school's ranking is determined mostly by the LSAT score and GPA of the people the school rejects. Ranking has zero to do with the quality of professors, etc. Ranking is more of a "prestige" thing than a quality thing.