Air Service

[HOT ROD]

United Direct Flight from Seattle

It was nice to see that United offers direct service to Oklahoma City daily. Check it out.

Flight: United Airlines flight 508 on a Boeing 737-300 Jet - 1 stop
Depart: Seattle/Tacoma, WA (SEA) - at 4:25pm
Arrive: Oklahoma City, OK (OKC) - at 11:25pm
Meals: No Meal Served

Continue the Renaissance!!!

[mranderson]

United Direct Flight from Seattle

It was nice to see that United offers direct service to Oklahoma City daily. Check it out.

Flight: United Airlines flight 508 on a Boeing 737-300 Jet - 1 stop
Depart: Seattle/Tacoma, WA (SEA) - at 4:25pm
Arrive: Oklahoma City, OK (OKC) - at 11:25pm
Meals: No Meal Served

Continue the Renaissance!!!

Yes. There are many flights like that one. The stop (probably obvious) is in Denver.

This is an example of a "direct" flight. Had there been no stop, it would have been "non stop." Many people miss use the term "direct." Thanks Hot Rod for making the stop clear.

[HOT ROD]

[HOT ROD]

Im just glad United is offering the flight!

I wish there was a way to better market it.

[BG918]

I wish it were a non-stop, that would be good connection to a large city, international gateway, and the entire northwest region of the U.S.

[HOT ROD]

ya, but the direct flight on united is a great start. Because Denver is United's western hub, there would probably never be a Nonstop from Seattle on United.

But Im glad I dont have to change planes or anything, and the flight was pretty full coming into the city (OKC).

[HOT ROD]

I think our best chance for Nonstop from Seattle would be either Northwest or America West.

Northwest has a Gateway Hub in Seattle for International Flights, so a nonstop to seattle might be feasible for this reason. Memphis is the Central Hub and there really is NO west coast hub (besides Seattle's gateway). This is probably the BEST shot for OKC but we would have to get some Tokyo bound travelers (or Asia) to consistently fly.

America West due to it potentially becoming the central hub or minihub. Seattle is a stop on AW and most flights go thru Phoenix. Having an OKC flight or two from Seattle would cut down on the time it would take to get to the East Coast. I honestly think this is our best shot!

Other potentials: US Airways (already doing codeshare with United, and probably why OKC has the direct flight from Seattle), Continental (a big maybe here as Seattle is not a hub nor is OKC), American (very doubtful due to their heavy reliance on DFW and ORD grid system).

All other major airlines have hubs in the west between OKC and Seattle, so a nonstop would probably not occur. In fact, this is the reason OKC does not have many nonstops to the coasts. There are already hub airports for airlines inbetween (like Phoenix, Denver, Mem, Chicagos) before you get to the coast.

America West is a special case, because it actually would be more economical to have the flight go from SEA to OKC instead of SEA to PHX to OKC. I think this is why they are considering OKC as a potential expansion hub, our central location is hard to beat and our lack of coastal service actually creates a business case (and hence, financial opportunity) for them!

Ditto that for US AIR but 1) they are bankrupt so they will not expand and 2) they codeshare with United, which has an extensive E-W route structure already with West coast hub in SFO, Mountain hub at DEN, Central and main hub at ORD, and East Hub at DUL. In addition, United has Latin Gateway at MIA and a Pacific Gateway at LAX. Unless US Air picks it up, it is cheaper for them to codeshare with United's extensive network/and more economical for United to have them and use US Air's extensive East Coast shuttles, something United does not have.

[OUman]

I think our best chance for Nonstop from Seattle would be either Northwest or America West.

Northwest has a Gateway Hub in Seattle for International Flights, so a nonstop to seattle might be feasible for this reason. Memphis is the Central Hub and there really is NO west coast hub (besides Seattle's gateway). This is probably the BEST shot for OKC but we would have to get some Tokyo bound travelers (or Asia) to consistently fly.

America West due to it potentially becoming the central hub or minihub. Seattle is a stop on AW and most flights go thru Phoenix. Having an OKC flight or two from Seattle would cut down on the time it would take to get to the East Coast. I honestly think this is our best shot!

Other potentials: US Airways (already doing codeshare with United, and probably why OKC has the direct flight from Seattle), Continental (a big maybe here as Seattle is not a hub nor is OKC), American (very doubtful due to their heavy reliance on DFW and ORD grid system).

All other major airlines have hubs in the west between OKC and Seattle, so a nonstop would probably not occur. In fact, this is the reason OKC does not have many nonstops to the coasts. There are already hub airports for airlines inbetween (like Phoenix, Denver, Mem, Chicagos) before you get to the coast.

America West is a special case, because it actually would be more economical to have the flight go from SEA to OKC instead of SEA to PHX to OKC. I think this is why they are considering OKC as a potential expansion hub, our central location is hard to beat and our lack of coastal service actually creates a business case (and hence, financial opportunity) for them!

Ditto that for US AIR but 1) they are bankrupt so they will not expand and 2) they codeshare with United, which has an extensive E-W route structure already with West coast hub in SFO, Mountain hub at DEN, Central and main hub at ORD, and East Hub at DUL. In addition, United has Latin Gateway at MIA and a Pacific Gateway at LAX. Unless US Air picks it up, it is cheaper for them to codeshare with United's extensive network/and more economical for United to have them and use US Air's extensive East Coast shuttles, something United does not have.

Not to pick on you or anything, but thought I would make some comments. United doesn't have gateway operations at Miami Int'l. Some flights from Dulles Int'l and O'Hare on their way to destinations like Rio de Janeiro make a stop there before proceeding on to South American destinations. Same for the way back, although United does also have nonstops between the U.S. and South America.

Northwest does not operate a hub at the SeaTac airport. It has a smaller focus operation.

As for nonstop service between Oklahoma City and Seattle/Tacoma, there are several scenarios. Alaska Airlines now has a full maintainence center at Will Rogers, which is AAR Aircraft Services. If the demand is there, Alaska could convert a maintainence flight into a scheduled passenger flight between both areas. That would be just one daily nonstop roundtrip though. So if you want more frequency (two a day), then the RJ would do, which is why Horizon Air might start nonstops.

About service nonstop service between Oklahoma City and Seattle/Tacoma, I have noticed the increase in use of regional jets for non-hub flights, meaning that the commuter lines are using them for point-to-point flights, more like Southwest does and thus those flights bypass the hubs completely. So America West Express or any other commuter line could start such flights to/from Oklahoma City. So that could be a good possibility, given our metro population.

OUman

[mranderson]

Yes. Alaska Airlines is a possibility and one the airport distrust should pursue. If for no other reason, to get better exposure to that part of the country.

If we get the America West hub, the airline will probably use 737's or A320's. Not regional jets. However, flights to Sea-Tac would almost be a sure bet. Along will all major cities served by AW.

[HOT ROD]

Not to pick on you or anything, but thought I would make some comments. United doesn't have gateway operations at Miami Int'l. Some flights from Dulles Int'l and O'Hare on their way to destinations like Rio de Janeiro make a stop there before proceeding on to South American destinations. Same for the way back, although United does also have nonstops between the U.S. and South America.

Northwest does not operate a hub at the SeaTac airport. It has a smaller focus operation.

As for nonstop service between Oklahoma City and Seattle/Tacoma, there are several scenarios. Alaska Airlines now has a full maintainence center at Will Rogers, which is AAR Aircraft Services. If the demand is there, Alaska could convert a maintainence flight into a scheduled passenger flight between both areas. That would be just one daily nonstop roundtrip though. So if you want more frequency (two a day), then the RJ would do, which is why Horizon Air might start nonstops.

About service nonstop service between Oklahoma City and Seattle/Tacoma, I have noticed the increase in use of regional jets for non-hub flights, meaning that the commuter lines are using them for point-to-point flights, more like Southwest does and thus those flights bypass the hubs completely. So America West Express or any other commuter line could start such flights to/from Oklahoma City. So that could be a good possibility, given our metro population.

OUman

United did operate a gateway out of MIA. They may not now, but I know at least before the bankruptcy they did and they still prominently list MIA on their South American route structure.

Northwest DOES!! operate a gateway out of SEA. I know, cause I live here. You seem to be aviation savvy, so you know that I !!never!! said Seattle has a Northwest HUB. I said Gateway (which is an international connection point) as we have NonStop flights to Tokyo and Taipei, I think SEA just got Osaka also and may be getting Shanghai.

<.>

I absolutely forgot about Alaska. It is headquartered and hubbed here in Seattle. And you are right, OKC is the maintenance base. I think you are correct, that Alaska or its partner Horizon (also hq and hubbed in SEA) could begin a SEA-OKC route if the demand is there. I think they should do it, since they need to service the planes anyways, why not offer some seats?

I would say, Alaska/Horizon probably represents our best chance for Nonstop SEA-OKC and PDX-OKC. Heck, they could also do LA-OKC as LA is a big op for them.

Probably, America West might be our second best chance but that is only if AW selects OKC as its central hub. We could easily get on the SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX to NYC, CHI, WAS, ATL, MIA routes and have coastal access we so desire! and need!

The other thing I wish, is that we had a small feeder airline serving OKC and surrounding small airports. We have lots of little airports in the state and region, why doesnt someone start a small airline which would feed a flight or two a day from these airports? You know, Enid, Ponca, Lawton, Mac, plus ICT, TUL, LIT, AMA, ABQ, LUB, so on... It would not have to be a huge number of flight operations and would not even have to be daily, but at least give people in smaller airports an option!

I can tell you that SEA does this and it is THE main reason why we have 26 Million PAX per year, when SEA arguably should have about 20M! Of course, OKC probably would not have that much growth but maybe OKC could grow from 3.5M to 7M with such an op. Seems pretty feasible to me, and is what GP should have done, start small first - grow your ridership (and dependence/market) then tackle the coasts.

[OUman]

Yes. Alaska Airlines is a possibility and one the airport distrust should pursue. If for no other reason, to get better exposure to that part of the country.

If we get the America West hub, the airline will probably use 737's or A320's. Not regional jets. However, flights to Sea-Tac would almost be a sure bet. Along will all major cities served by AW.

737's and 320's are fine, but our passenger traffic is not supportive enough of justifying the use of these mainliners. Over 50% of the flights at WRA are operated w/ RJ's, the rest are mainliners. With RJ's, you can provide the option of atleast two flights a day when a mainliner would only provide for one, and atleast one a day when a mainliner just won't be feasible.

America West and America West Express will have to use a combination of mainliners and RJ's if they do go ahead w/ this, otherwise a hub won't be successful here.

OUman

[mranderson]

737's and 320's are fine, but our passenger traffic is not supportive enough of justifying the use of these mainliners. Over 50% of the flights at WRA are operated w/ RJ's, the rest are mainliners. With RJ's, you can provide the option of atleast two flights a day when a mainliner would only provide for one, and atleast one a day when a mainliner just won't be feasible.

America West and America West Express will have to use a combination of mainliners and RJ's if they do go ahead w/ this, otherwise a hub won't be successful here.

OUman

Keep in mind, the traffic count will skyrocket with hub status,(300 flights a day) and the flight range will be from 160 miles to 3,000 miles (aprox). Therefore, with the number of people connecting through Will Rogers, larger aircraft will be justified.

Plus. A lot of people here have no experience with America West. I do. I use to fly them all the time in another state. All they own, other than the puddle jumpers and Dash 80's are 737, 757, A319 and A320's.

[swake]

America West has 24 CRJ-900s and 18 CRJ-200s operated as AW Express, and regional jets are important at any hub as connectors to smaller airports.

[OUman]

Speaking of mainliners, I just found out that United will be operating possibly the first-ever scheduled 757-200 flight between OKC and DEN. This will be for only two months the way it looks right now on the schedules (May and June), so enjoy it while it lasts I guess.

But hub or not, I really hope the east concourse is built. It doesn't make sense to not build it right now, especially as our pax count is approaching the 3.5 mil mark.

OUman

[mranderson]

Speaking of mainliners, I just found out that United will be operating possibly the first-ever scheduled 757-200 flight between OKC and DEN. This will be for only two months the way it looks right now on the schedules (May and June), so enjoy it while it lasts I guess.

But hub or not, I really hope the east concourse is built. It doesn't make sense to not build it right now, especially as our pax count is approaching the 3.5 mil mark.

OUman

Yes. The 757 is a flight I might take if America West doesn't lower their fares. United is almost 100.00 less right now.

[Patrick]

But hub or not, I really hope the east concourse is built. It doesn't make sense to not build it right now, especially as our pax count is approaching the 3.5 mil mark.

If they don't build the East Concourse, I really don't see what the point in "expanding" our airport was. Afterall, the "expansion" would become a misnomer. I suppose we've gotten a nice airport out of it.

[HOT ROD]

Speaking of mainliners, I just found out that United will be operating possibly the first-ever scheduled 757-200 flight between OKC and DEN. This will be for only two months the way it looks right now on the schedules (May and June), so enjoy it while it lasts I guess.

But hub or not, I really hope the east concourse is built. It doesn't make sense to not build it right now, especially as our pax count is approaching the 3.5 mil mark.

OUman

I like the sound of THAT!!! 757 is one of my favourite planes (certainly my fav single aisle)!! Usually, if you get 757's, then you are a Big City (with lots business travelers). Too bad we (BOEING) pulled the plug on the program, but out 737-900 really canabalized the 757 market.

But it is very nice to hear United will run them. I wonder if this will be the direct flight from Seattle?

[mranderson]

No. The 757 is to Denver.

UA flight 1231 departs Will Rogers 9:30 AM arrives Denver International 10:08 AM.

This information was taken from my daily fare search for my trip to Sacramento in May.

[OUman]

If they don't build the East Concourse, I really don't see what the point in "expanding" our airport was. Afterall, the "expansion" would become a misnomer. I suppose we've gotten a nice airport out of it.

The expansion in that case would be the addition of a new concourse w/ larger concession space and holdrooms, and an expanded main terminal w/ the same, and a food court. And then all the landside additions.

But that only gives us 17 gates. W/ the eight-gate east concourse, it'll be 25. Let's hope they build it.

That being said, the terminal will look much much better than it did before (the west concourse is great).

The main terminal will have the same, lots of glass all around and better concessions and decor.

OUman

[Karried]

It is so crucial to do this correctly, aesthetically speaking as well. The airport is the first thing people see when coming to OK - especially executives flying in to preview this area for future businesses.

[OUman]

I remember reading somewhere in this forum that if Allegiant's load factor between Las Vegas and Oklahoma City is good, it'll consider service between Oklahoma City and Orlando.

It recently announced that Orlando Sanford Int'l Airport will be its focus airport. Let's hope it starts nonstops between that and Will Rogers! Load factors have been pretty good so far between OKC and LAS.

OUman

[mranderson]

I remember reading somewhere in this forum that if Allegiant's load factor between Las Vegas and Oklahoma City is good, it'll consider service between Oklahoma City and Orlando.

It recently announced that Orlando Sanford Int'l Airport will be its focus airport. Let's hope it starts nonstops between that and Will Rogers! Load factors have been pretty good so far between OKC and LAS.

OUman

Of course, Trans Meridian had that route, but they pulled out without giving Oklahoma City a fair chance. Southwest also had a non stop to Orlando.

With all the people who like to visit that four fingered Mouse, we need a non stop to Central Florida.

[xrayman]

Let's face it - Oklahoma City has never been a market that has successfully supported non-stop flights. Our demographics just cannot support that. The chamber crowd may not like to hear it - but they know it's true. They have talked many an airline over the years into giving them a try. They have all failed. Amazingly, according to this crowd, it's always the airlines fault. It will be a long time before OKC can support non-stop flights to points other than Dallas, KC, etc. It just is not going to happen. Airlines are not in the business of subsidizing non-performing routes.

[mranderson]

Actually, this line that Oklahoma City can not support non stop flights is not true. This is a city with a metro population nearing 1.5 million people, and a service range of almost two million. This is one of the largest cities in the nation. Many cities smaller have numerous non stop flights and they thrive.

Plus, when Oklahoma City obtains hub status, we will have hundreds of percent increase in airline traffic, and direct flights will be even more scarce.

I really do not understand how anyone can justify the negitive comments that I hear all the time from people around this city, and quite frankly. I am tired of negitivity.

When someone from somewhere else hears nothing but negitive comments from someone who lives someplace about that place, just imagine what image it projects.

Think of it as you would a potentially fatal illness. If you had that illness, would you have a negitive attitude? Well, guess what. Oklahoma City has an illness. It is called negitive attitude. It could be fatal if not treated.

Think about it. And remember. You are an ambassador representing Oklahoma City. Not the opposite.

[xrayman]

Being an ambassador doesn't mean pretending that something is true - when it is not. I don't quite understand the "believe and it will happen" line. Nor do I understand the "We can't talk about anything negative - others will hear!" Frankly, that's silly. We are what we are and all the "positive talk" will not change the facts. This is a great city, but it's nowhere near what some here would like it to be. There is no use in pretending otherwise. The NFL??? Please. Not for a long, long time. Our NFL team is down in Norman.

This meme about Oklahoma City being one the largest in the nation, etc. does no good except to create false expectations. Population alone does not tell the story. Demographics tell the story. Look at the median income. Look at the education demos. All of these things tell the story of a city. All of these things must change before Oklahoma City can compete with other cities for non-stop flights. It's not like there's not a history here, MrAnderson. There is! Several airlines have tried these routes out of Oklahoma City and the demand was just not there! What is it about that which is so hard to understand? Talking about that is not "negative" - it's about history, demographics, facts!

It does no good whatsoever to write on this forum how we need to build a football stadium, need non-stop flights, etc. when NONE of this can be supported! I remember a study in the eighties that showed Oklahoma City would get an NFL team far after cities of smaller size. Again, because of demographics. It's NOT just about population. That's really not that hard to understand - unless you just want to pretend otherwise. If that makes one feel better about living here ---- fantasize all you want! But, don't tell those of us who deal with current realities that we are being "negative." We can love our city without believing fantasies and we can love our city and still offer constructive criticism. In fact, to do otherwise, hurts the future progress of Oklahoma City!

The analogy with a fatal illness is so silly that to offer comment would deem it serious. BUT.... If I had a fatal illness, I would want a doctor to tell me what's wrong and what I need to do to get well. I certainly wouldn't want a doctor to tell me that all is well, everything is fine and I can just "think" the illness away. A positive attitude is necessary, but that is different from not being able to talk about the illness in realistic terms.

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