What is the question?

[Thunder]

I came upon this CD being sold on eBay about a Dr. Mark Alterman having one question for every Jehovah's Witnesses. It is something that none of them can ever answer.

What is the question? I don't want to buy... They can't expect someone with hearing loss to hear this CD.

After failed searches for this mysterious question, I came across KosherGospel.com and near the bottom is this message.

AUDIO CD:
One Question Stumps Jehovah's Witnesses!


Cult Series #1

Have you ever wondered about Jehovah's Witnesses?
WHO ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES?
WHAT DO THESE PEOPLE BELIEVE?
Have these people ever knocked on your door?

Most Christians only know Jehovah's Witnesses as the people we tell to go away when they knock on the door. You've heard they're a cult. You've heard they are mixed up. But have you ever heard - or wondered - WHY?

Dr. Mark Alterman will explain this to you in this teaching!
This message is UNBELIEVABLE! You will be shocked when you learn the actual truths about this religion and what they believe!!!!

You will learn the history of this religion, what they believe, where it came from, and WHY we tell them to leave when they knock on the front door!!!! He even gives you a special question to ask them that will make them question their own religion!

BONUS SPECIAL:
Inculdes a special chart that shows the equivalent names of Jesus and Jehovah in both the Old and New Testaments.

What is the question?

I am sure someone on here will know that. I would like to know, since I am researching on Jehovah's Witness.

[Toadrax]

They are just another bunch of fools that think that their way is the "one true way" and they are the "true Christians" and people who follow other religions will be done away with.

Opening the Closed Mind of Jehovah's Witnesses has some questions that seems well researched enough to annoy people that visit your door.

[GWB]

The Jehovah Witness is a cult (false religion) Who are the Jehovah's Witnesses and what are their beliefs?.

It really doesn't matter what the *question* is. The fact that you have to pay this guy $$$ to get the answer to this question should raise a red flag for you. He's not interested in sharing the truth with you, he's interested in selling a product to make $$$.

If you are seeking the truth you can find it for free. All you need to do is open your Bible and begin reading it. A good place to start is with the Gospel of John.

Check out this online video http://www.tvartist.net/view/TheGap.mov

[Martin]

the jehovah witness is a cult (false religion)

'cult' and 'false religion' are not interchangeable terms. i'd agree that all cults are false religions but i wouldn't say that all false religions are cults.

-M

[Midtowner]

Who cares whether they get it wrong?

Are they usually nice people? In my experience, yes. Do they have strong families? From everything I've seen, absolutely.

Not my cup of tea, but really, there's no more evidence that this isn't the "true way" than there is for Scientology or Rastafarianism.

[GWB]

Who cares whether they get it wrong?

Are they usually nice people? In my experience, yes. Do they have strong families? From everything I've seen, absolutely.

Not my cup of tea, but really, there's no more evidence that this isn't the "true way" than there is for Scientology or Rastafarianism.

If you don't believe the Bible to be the "true way", then I would probably agree with you. Since I believe the Bible to God's Word and Jesus Christ being the way to God, I disagree with you. Indeed, there is quite a bit of evidence that the JW religion isn't the "true way" to God.

By the way, the topic that Thunder posted here was not about "nice people", it's about seeking the truth and wanting to know more about the JW religion. There's nice people who belong to most all religions, but I don't think that is what Thunder was asking about.

[Thunder]

I have this guy, he is only 21, and he is trying to get me to see the truth. The same thing goes the other way around, when I am trying to get him to see differently. He was born into this and raised, so it is really tough, but he is open to discussing anything and mentioned that I raised good points and all that. Still, he will find a way to counter-response (or whatever the word).

Toadrax, I had came across that site earlier today and read it.

It is really hard on me, because it is a drastic change, the same for him.

I had came across many articles/comments/opinions/whatever relating to Jehovah's Witness and sent them all to the guy, broken up in 16 emails.

One thing that really puzzles me, him too, is that if the Watchtower diss out so many bad stuff about the Catholic religion, then why is the Watchtower still having the Jehovah's Witnesses use Roman Catholic Greek text? The New World Translation (NWT) is taken from the Westcott and Hort Greek text (note the forward in NWT), which is in turn comes from the VATICANUS (Vatican - Roman Catholic) greek manuscripts. In places of textural variation, the NWT lines up with the Roman Catholic Bible and takes the Catholic reading OVER the King James reading.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that in the coming day of Jehovah (Jesus Christ, Lord), everyone will be resurrected. Only the 144,000 chosen ones will be cast into Heaven. The rest of the faithfuls will live on a new Earth in Paradise. As for the unfaithful, Jehovah's Witness believe they will simply be destroyed by the meaning of death (or cast into darkness...hell).

Now it comes to mind, what about all those being cremated? That is a bit tricky...

I have also seen a discussion of the NWT being composed by a committee with no credentials that would in any way make them qualified to translate the Bible from the original texts. If that is true, then how in the world can Jehovah's Witnesses continue to follow the NWT?

The Watchtower believes that all the other religions is false and they feed this to the Jehovah's Witnesses. To me, it seem like the Watchtower is the dangerous cult and putting innoncent Jehovah's Witnesses at risk. It has been known that the Watchtower made changes to the Bible for their own benefits. It has been know that previous Watchtower Presidents had been rejected.

Disavowed is comparable to being excommunicated from the Catholic Church. Mention it to Jehovah's Witnesses and they won't want to speak to you. They aren't allowed to step foot in your home or communicate with you.

Explain the cause of being....excommunicated....and the meaning of it.

I had told this guy about some of the things that I had done and that I stopped, because he brought to me a whole new meaning of Adultery, which got me to rethink my actions. Still, he comes over to visit, we chat thru an instant messenger. Our conversations isn't always about a religion.

Thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses including many minor children are ALREADY DEAD because of the Watchtower's twisted flip-flopping blood transfusion ban.

Children have the right to live. They are way to young to decide for themselves. Having the parents and the Watchtower to decide the verdict of Death is wrong, immoral, and practically murderous.

If the Watchtower want to continue their belief on blood transusion, then fine, but don't carry it onto the children! I think that the children should have full medical access, no matter what. There should be a change that says such further ban on certain medical issues apply only to those already baptized and that there be a certain age to be baptized (adulthood).

Anyways, he is a good guy and it is just unfortunate that he was raised into this kinda belief. As much as I try to change him, it would be hard, the same as he try to change me. In other word, convert.

Whatever they are a cult or a religion, Jehovah's Witness is still like every other cult and religion, not proven to be the truth.

[Toadrax]

Not my cup of tea, but really, there's no more evidence that this isn't the "true way" than there is for Scientology or Rastafarianism.

There is a lot of evidence that Scientology is far from the true way.

I say, the more wrong you are the most you charge.

Scientology costs at the very least $365,000 to get to OT9. It could cost a lot more. It is the only church with a cashier's booth.

If the church down the way wants to do a little song and dance, that is fine.. as long as they are not screwing people out of their money or hurting them. Scientology is dangerous and comparing it to Rastafari gives Scientology too much credit IMHO.

[Thunder]

Scientology and Rastafan is another religion?

[bandnerd]

Yes, Scientology and Rastafarianism are both different religions.

[Midtowner]

There is a lot of evidence that Scientology is far from the true way.

I say, the more wrong you are the most you charge.

Scientology costs at the very least $365,000 to get to OT9. It could cost a lot more. It is the only church with a cashier's booth.

If the church down the way wants to do a little song and dance, that is fine.. as long as they are not screwing people out of their money or hurting them. Scientology is dangerous and comparing it to Rastafari gives Scientology too much credit IMHO.

Christianity demands you tithe in many cases. 10% of your income over a lifetime works out to more than $365K. At least, for many of us.

Now, I'm not defending other practices of the Scions. I'm not a huge fan of the "fair game" policy, etc. Of course -- that's nothing compared to the Spanish Inquisition or the treatment of heretics by the Roman Church.

"Evidence" that their religion isn't the true way? That's rich. What "evidence" is there that the Bible is a historically accurate record, that Christ healed people with touch, etc. It's all taken on faith. No one's faith can be right or wrong -- the definition of faith is that you believe something without having evidence of it.

Keep in mind, most churches call themselves "faiths" and refer to faith and religion interchangeably. If they can be honest about the foundation of their dogma, why can't you?

[Toadrax]

Every other religion believes in a higher power, Scientology doesn't.

It started out as a replacement for psychology, but they switched to a "religion" to get tax-free benefits legal benefits. They still talk about it being an alternative to psychology in their salespitch orientation video, they even tell you that auditing will increase your IQ, I would link the video here here but it would get okctalk.com sued...

No religion enforces copyrights in their "religious" texts. You want a Bible or a Koran? You can call a number and get one delivered to your house for free. I have been to a lot of churches of various types and I have NEVER been charged a dime. They are open about their beliefs and someone is typically dying to tell you everything there is to know if you show that you are interested in what they have to say. You want to find out anything about Scientology? Grab your checkbook.

Obviously churches need money to operate and they accept donations. If you can't see the difference you are either the biggest moron ever, or just trying to push an agenda against religion. I don't like religion that much either, but at least I know what it is.

[Midtowner]

All your points are regarding their dogma. The copyright issue is an opinion -- your opinion, Anonymous' opinion. It's just an opinion though. What something started out as and what it ends up as can be completely different things. Christianity started out as a state religion meant to better control the masses and shift the religious power away from the temples to the Emperor. It has become something entirely different though.

Really... a religion based upon some guy roaming around in a desert performing miracles and claiming to be the "Son of God" isn't emphatically more convincing about Xenu driving his 747's full of Thetans into volcanoes. Both stories are equally unlikely.

As far as finding out about the Scientologists, one only need search the multitude of websites set up by Anonymous if one wants to find anything out about them.

The money aspect is something you're focusing almost entirely too much on. Both churches get gobs of money, they just choose to do so in different manners. They are both sitting on mountains of moola though, all delivered to them by those who believe in their message, whether that message requires confession or auditing.

[Toadrax]

So every cult is a religion to you?

[Midtowner]

Christianity, by most definitions, was a cult until it wasn't.

Cults mostly do have religious characteristics, or in fact are religions while also being cults. I think things are more 'shades of gray' in that department than black and white. While Scientology at one time looked more like a cult (for example), it regrettably, perhaps, is gaining in popular acceptance.

Whether there is popular acceptance or tension with society-at-large regarding the beliefs and practices of a group is usually tipping point for whether something gets the "cult" moniker. The word seems to carry such an unwarranted negative connotation when none is desired.

If one is in a "cult," one is just at tension with mainstream society as to their religious beliefs. That has no bearing, however, on the validity of those religious beliefs.

[Toadrax]

By your logic, a group of Christians in Afganstan would be a cult.

The word cult carries a negative connotation because cults control their members and destroy lives.

When you go to confessional at a real church, they don't write down everything you say and keep records to blackmail you with later. Scientology does.

[Thunder]

In this discussion, is the cult a bad and/or evil thing? Everyone view JW as a cult, right? Then explain about them not worshipping the Satan? If they are a cult, then explain how the people are generally nice and friendly with different views?

How much changes have JW gone thru, more along the line of acceptance? How likely are they to change something more in the near and long term future?

Will it make me a bad person if I choose to follow JW? What will that say to my family if I tell them no more gifts for me during Christmas and Birthdays?

[Midtowner]

If I were a Christian in Afghanistan, no doubt that could potentially, quite literally destroy my life.

Many Christian sects have the potential to destroy lives (snake handlers, anyone?)

The particular practices of a religion are not really relevant. There you go again questioning dogma. It's all based on faith. Faith is at its core an irrational belief in something.

That your irrational belief is more rational than someone else's irrational belief is what you seem to be arguing. I don't deny the fact that Scientology has been bad, and even killed in many cases, but really, the Scientology body count isn't anywhere close to the Christianity body count.

[Midtowner]

In this discussion, is the cult a bad and/or evil thing?

It's just a word. Words are neither good nor evil.

Everyone view JW as a cult, right?

That depends on what you call a "cult." The jury's still out on that. Many Christians like to apply their very Christiancentric beliefs to the word and say taht a "cult" is anything which doesn't closely resemble mainline Protestantism.

Others define "cult" by the tension that the group has with society as a whole, how well established the religion is, etc.

Then explain about them not worshipping the Satan? If they are a cult, then explain how the people are generally nice and friendly with different views?

Those things have nothing to do with being a cult, at least not as far as any definition I've ever seen.

How much changes have JW gone thru, more along the line of acceptance? How likely are they to change something more in the near and long term future?

Society has become more liberalized and now is in general, more accepting of religions which don't look like the major world religions, mainline Protestantism, Catholicism, etc.

As far as JWs changing in the future, who knows? It's difficult to imagine a group which bases its faith on the inerrant and unchanging word of the Bible ever suddenly deciding that the Bible means something different today than yesterday, but hey.. the Mormons seem to do this every time I turn around, so I suppose anything is possible.

Will it make me a bad person if I choose to follow JW? What will that say to my family if I tell them no more gifts for me during Christmas and Birthdays?

Answer this first -- why would you be a bad person? What would make you bad? If a relative of mine told me I didn't have to get them anything for Christmas or birthdays, I'd probably be ecstatic.

[Thunder]

Well, they will view that I don't care about Jesus and the birth. That is what worries me.

I know that the death and resurrection is the upmost important than the birth.

I know that December 25th may not actually be his true birthday, because of the weather-related study and stuff like that. However, no one know the true date of birth, so what is wrong with dedicating a day for the birth of Jesus? Will He understand that? If Jesus is understanding of that, then JW still won't honor a day chosen for Him. Jesus can still understand JW, because JW do not want a connection to pagan stuff.

[Midtowner]

It's all faith. Jesus is whatever you believe him to be, or at least whatever the group you belong to tells you he is.

You and your chosen faith are where you should seek those answers, not okctalk.

If you ultimately do decide to become a Jehovah's Witness, then I'm sure you will not be the first Jehovah's Witness to have experienced these sorts of family tensions.

[Thunder]

I feel comfortable on here with OKCTalk.

[Toadrax]

Being a Jehovah's Witness in of itself won't make you a bad person.

If you are ever in a hospital badly injured, refuse a blood transfusion, and die as a result there is a case to be made.

Never forget about your family and the people that care about you. You have a responsibility to those people and don't ever be selfish and refuse medical treatment, always consider the impact of your actions on those that care about you.

Don't let any religion take you away from your family either. And never forget that at the end of the day, the religion is supposed to help you.

[Midtowner]

Of course, if your religion happens to be the one which is right and your reward is not in this life, but the 'great hereafter,' then isn't your religion helping you even if it helps you along your way to an untimely demise?

If your religion values the next life over this one, then who is to say that's wrong? And who is to say your own soul doesn't take precedence over family?

-- Postmodernism is great, isn't it?

[Toadrax]

Ya, I guess I am one of the rare people that can go to church and still keep things in perspective.

My take on the situation is.. if God is going to send me to hell for seekig medical attention, God can suck it. A fair and just God wouldn't do that, and if God isn't fair and just I could care less about him.