Just back from DC...

[HOT ROD]

I don't think Philly's is as old, but yeah it is pretty old. San Fran's is relatively new, but yes, I think DC;s is actually based/designed from BART.

Take a look at the cars from DC and compare to BART's, very similar. Baltimore has a small subway, as does Cleveland (or at least they used to).

LA's subway is the newest in the US. Boston, New York, and Chicago's are the oldest.

For North America, Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver have subways. Vancouver's was built in 1980's, and is completing a major expansion next year. I think Mexico City has a subway.

Those are the only subway's Im aware of, besides Atlanta (I think theirs MARTA is subway, but it might be LRT).

In Japan, most major cities have subways in addition to overhead trains and commuter rail (and highspeed rail - shinkansen). Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, Yokohama, Kobe, Kyoto, and Fukuoka have extensive subways. I think Sapporo might but I dont know for sure.

[Luke]

I say we put a monorail in...

Use the medians of major thoroughfares to put 'em all through town.

[Superhyper]

I say we put a monorail in...

Use the medians of major thoroughfares to put 'em all through town.

I wonder how practical that would be. Are most medians even wide enough to be useful?

[AAC2005]

Metro opened in 1976 so, you're right, it isn't as old as some. They keep talking about putting in a silver line to connect it with Dulles Airport out west (the lines are designated colors - green/yellow/red/blue/orange). The spoke design makes it less useable for workers living and working on the outskirts of the Metro system so they regularly kick around the notion of a purple line (sort of a loop or partial loop) to make it usable for working people. Dulles is quite a long way from DC and I personally have my doubts it will be done anytime, soon, if ever. A purple line to put a loop on the spokes would really be helpful but I wonder if it could handle the volume of people who could take advantage of it. At rush hour, the trains are pretty packed. More difficult would probably be getting the expensive land needed to lay tracks.

Ah, the memories... I was born and raised in DC, so this thread is making me homesick - a little bit. East Coast Okie, could you send me a bag of Utz Potato Chips and a medium Ledo's Pizza when you have a moment?

Also, everything you've said about DC traffic is right on. For six months (LOL), I commuted from Pasadena to Silver Spring, and although the drive was mostly highway, I shared it with a gazillion other people on a daily basis. Metro is nice, but if you're a regular commuter, you know that it needs a LOT of work right now.

Pepperoni, sausage, extra cheese and light sauce, please.

[HOT ROD]

Exactly AAC,

This is something that most casual or business travelers to DC don't recognize. Metro is nice, but it is nice mainly in DC and the inner suburbs.

Most people now live far away from the inner - and METRO basically does nothing for them.

[OKCDrummer77]

East Coast Okie, could you send me a bag of Utz Potato Chips and a medium Ledo's Pizza when you have a moment?

I'm not that familiar with the Utz brand, but at Sam's Club, you can get a bag of kettle-cooked chips called Mystic Chips that also bear the name "Utz of Hanover." That might be close to what you're looking for.

[PennyQuilts]

AAC2005, I've got some UTZ in the cabinet, right now. I sure would have brought you some when we were in town a couple of weeks ago if I'd known you were pining for them. And it is IS Utz of Hanover so you might want to stroll down memory lane at Sams. I sure enjoyed hitting Braums and Sonic when we were back home. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven when I discovered a Sonic in Fredericksburg.

It's tough to be homesick. Are you living in Oklahoma? I believe that would be a bigger cultural shock to go from DC to OKC than it was for me to head out east! Maybe you can go back east and pay a visit sometime soon.

[BG918]

I don't think Philly's is as old, but yeah it is pretty old. San Fran's is relatively new, but yes, I think DC;s is actually based/designed from BART.

Take a look at the cars from DC and compare to BART's, very similar. Baltimore has a small subway, as does Cleveland (or at least they used to).

LA's subway is the newest in the US. Boston, New York, and Chicago's are the oldest.

For North America, Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver have subways. Vancouver's was built in 1980's, and is completing a major expansion next year. I think Mexico City has a subway.

Those are the only subway's Im aware of, besides Atlanta (I think theirs MARTA is subway, but it might be LRT).

In Japan, most major cities have subways in addition to overhead trains and commuter rail (and highspeed rail - shinkansen). Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya, Yokohama, Kobe, Kyoto, and Fukuoka have extensive subways. I think Sapporo might but I dont know for sure.

MARTA is a subway in inner city Atlanta (downtown, Five Points, Midtown, Buckhead) and LRT in other parts. Also Pittsburgh has a light rail system that goes underground in downtown. And then Dallas' DART has one underground portion and one underground station: CityPlace northeast of downtown.

I would love to see any light rail that goes in OKC go underground in parts of downtown but the costs would be too prohibitive and really unecessary.

[oknacreous]

Most people now live far away from the inner - and METRO basically does nothing for them.

Which explains why the rising gas prices have caused the migration to the suburbs in DC to slow down:

washingtonpost.com

Spending hours in traffic every day to save some money on housing may have been worth it at $2/gallon. Not so much at $4-5/gallon. Living in the Metro range (and city buses serve the Metro stops at longer ranges) means you can sell your car, which means not only no more costly fill-ups and a much easier commute, but cash for the down payment of that condo/townhouse, no more car insurance, not dealing with parking any more, quick access to world-class restaurants/museums/entertainment, and on and on.

I spent a long summer in DC recently, living with a friend in the District, and it was fantastic. Not the safest neighborhood in the world, but I just kept high situation awareness, tried to walk with a friend or neighbor, and never personally witnessed any problems. It was also cool to be able to take the Metro to Union Station where you can hop on a train to get to NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc.

Sure it's not the lifestyle for everyone, but what separates DC and so many other cities from OKC is that you have the option to have this kind of urban lifestyle. I'd love to be able to live anywhere near the I-44/240 loop, walk to a train stop, and quickly go up to the zoo and remington park for a day of fun, down to Bricktown for a night out, over to Penn Square for shopping, all without having to worry about driving, fuel prices, and parking! I'm sure instead we'll just continue our never-ending "study" of sensible mass transit.

[PennyQuilts]

If you are at a stage of life where you enjoy doing recreational things, artsy stuff, music, etc., living in DC, proper, is so much fun. My kids love living in NYC and enjoyed DC when one of them lived here. One of the other girls enjoyed living in Boston for some of the same reasons (but not so much). They didn't have a car in any of those places although in NYC, they tend to take cars rather than the subway. A lot of people have to hire a car for weekly grocery shopping if they have a family. Typically, when they visit me in Virginia, they rent a car because that is a pretty high cost for 5 - 6 people to take the train. NYC clears out on the weekends because the locals like to get out of town. My kids used to keep a car but the parking was cost prohibitive so now they just rent like a lot of other people. As often as not, my kids are in Connecticut or New Hampshire or someplace on weekends when they aren't working, particularly during certain times of the year. Of course, tourists fill up the city. My kids range in age from 28 - 34. Their friends who are parents and who have lived in the city for ten years or more are starting to move out of town to slower paces. They feel like they've gotten it out of their system and while they enjoyed it, the rhythm of their lives have changed. Not all of them, but some.

I see a huge divide between singles or nonparents relying on mass transit vs. families. Once you have kids in the picture, going anywhere is a fistfight, even in places where you have your own car and abundant parking. That includes OKC so you can imagine how tough it is using mass transit.

NYC is quite a bit different than DC because it has safe outlets for food, retail outlets, restaurants, etc., near where people live so you can walk. DC, not so much except in specific areas. DC is custom built for young people to come for a season, spend a session, etc. Relatively few people are natives (although you can find them) and most transition in for a year or three before moving on. The experience is typically so exciting, at first, with so much to see and do compared to where they may have come from. Plus, the beautiful monuments and lovely buildings are awe inspiring. The excitement tends to wane over time because there is only so often that you really want to go look at the pretty buildings and if you have a family, the schools aren't good and it is a lot of work to get anywhere or do anything. Young people tend to move on just because of the nature of young people - they finish their education, they finish their internship, their connection at DC moves on, etc.

One size does not fit all and addressing energy demands is going to vary depending on the population being served.

[AAC2005]

To answer an earlier question: I don't get as homesick as I used to, thanks in part to the Internet and Southwest Airlines. I've been back twice in less than two years, had my son and his family down this past June ("Ya know, I started to bring you some potato chips, but I was afraid they'd get crushed!") and talk to family via email and phone.

I was born and raised in DC and consider myself a Marylander, so the transition from the DC-MD lifestyle to becoming a resident of Oklahoma wasn't that big of a deal. My wife and I did our "running the roads" when we were supposed to, i.e. when we were youngsters, so there wasn't enough to give us culture shock (although I abhor your liquor laws and the way you register your vehicles...arrgh!)

In any event, thanks to East Coast Okie for painting such a lovely picture of my hometown and keeping my memories alive...everything you've posted - including the ugly state of public transportation and traffic in general - puts a smile on my face!

[CCOKC]

I lived in the Baltimore/Washington area for a short time when my kids were 1 and two. We drove into DC several times a week to go to the museums. In Feb-May there was no problem finding a meter in front of the Air and Space Museum
(my daughter's favorite) spending a few hours and getting out of town before the traffic got too bad. But as soon as the Cherry Blossoms bloomed, watch out. DC turned into a different city altogether. People spent more time outside, the tidal basin, the mall etc were just teeming with people. And the tourists just seemed to appear in droves overnight. That is when we stopped going in to DC so much.
That being said, I loved, loved, loved living there. In fact DC is probably my favorite American city. I was just glad I was a stay at home mom at the time and did not have to make a 2 hour drive to work every day.