University North Park

[flintysooner]

Published July 30, 2008 12:00 am - Statutory committee members for the University North Park Tax Increment Financing District No. 2 voted Tuesday to send a proposed amendment to the UNP TIF's Project Plan back with all funds still on the table.

Statutory committee keeps TIF funds on table

[BG918]

I called about the possibility of another hotel or two in this development, however, they are not currently pursuing more hospitality. Its still on the table, but until the Embassy opens, they will not contract out another hotel.
But there is still a possibility, so I am hopeful at this point. I would like to have a hotel in Norman, and UNP is definitely the area I would like to be in. I can't wait to see how this development turns out.

I think any new hotel in Norman should be near OU. It's crazy there's not a large hotel already by campus like in Campus Corner or downtown.

[slick]

I wouldn't be opposed to one near OU, but I don't think I would want one off of Highway 9 for instance. I would also think that by placing one in closer proximity to the OU campus, I would be lessening my chances of getting regular travel/Interstate business. If OU didn't have something going on that required out of town patrons to need a hotel, who would come to my hotel?
I'm not saying that there is no demand for a hotel near OU, I think more people would rather "play it safe" and place one near the Interstate (and its not far from the campus or anything really).

[BG918]

You wouldn't put a large hotel near OU but one that could be used for visitors looking at the university, fans staying for football and basketball games especially those from other schools wanting to be close, people coming for events and lectures at the university such as guest speakers, and then of course those that don't want to stay in a boring hotel by the interstate. Something really nice like the Atherton at OSU but bigger and located in Campus Corner, with a great restaurant that could be a showcase for visitors.

I actually think there could be two hotels. One medium-sized hotel like a Sheraton or Radisson right by the stadium that would primarily be used for those coming for football games but could also include meeting facilities and be used year-round especially for people coming to the research campus and National Weather Center nearby on Jenkins. Such a building could also have condos for fans wanting to own a place by the stadium and be located where the athletic dorms are currently, assuming they will be rebuilt at the SE corner of Lindsey and Jenkins. The other would be the aforementioned small upscale hotel in Campus Corner. Getting people away from the interstate and inside Norman would be better for the city in the long run, and there are already plenty of options off I-35 (basically all the hotels in Norman are located there).

[slick]

Since it hasn't been done yet, I would believe that there isn't demand for a hotel on campus.
If most of the customers staying at the existing hotels in Norman throughout the week are there specifically for University business, I can see a hotel doing well on campus.
If thats not the case, why would someone drive a few miles off the interstate to stay on campus?
But then again, it could be something as simple as OU not wanting a hotel on there campus. Or maybe they are making it too difficult from someone to build one (strict requirements on size and architecture could turn off potential developers).
My family and I would never be opposed to putting a hotel on a University campus, we would just have to have good reason to believe it would do well to even want to bother. As of right now, off the interstate (UNP area more specifically) is the part of town I would want to put a new hotel.

[Superhyper]

Since it hasn't been done yet, I would believe that there isn't demand for a hotel on campus.
If most of the customers staying at the existing hotels in Norman throughout the week are there specifically for University business, I can see a hotel doing well on campus.
If thats not the case, why would someone drive a few miles off the interstate to stay on campus?
But then again, it could be something as simple as OU not wanting a hotel on there campus. Or maybe they are making it too difficult from someone to build one (strict requirements on size and architecture could turn off potential developers).
My family and I would never be opposed to putting a hotel on a University campus, we would just have to have good reason to believe it would do well to even want to bother. As of right now, off the interstate (UNP area more specifically) is the part of town I would want to put a new hotel.

OU actually just closed it's own on-campus hotel. Admittedly it was terrible, but it had apparently been quite a tradition here for a number of years.

[BG918]

OU actually just closed it's own on-campus hotel. Admittedly it was terrible, but it had apparently been quite a tradition here for a number of years.

That gives OU a great opportunity to build a new Sooner Hotel that would be much better than the old one. OU building and operating it would probably be more feasible than a private developer, and the end product would most likely be better anyway. Anything built at OU is built to last while sadly many developers do the opposite.

[venture]

Best Western opened last year (I think) on the South side of Campus. So there is one major chain very close to campus right now.

[slick]

Totally forgot about Best Western, off of Classen I believe. Looks okay from the outside, but I remember seeing the rooms, and they were very nice (I think I remember flat panel LCD's as well).
I knew Sooner Hotel existed also, but never knew they closed it (are they going to turn it into dorms or apartments?)
I can see OU opening a hotel of their own, but really, I think most people will be happy with staying near the Interstate and driving to OU.

[Superhyper]

I honestly haven't heard any plans for a new hotel. They've converted the bungalows nearby into suites for visiting faculty/staff, but that's about all that's been done. I believe the original building itself is being turned into more administrative offices. If OU is to build another hotel, i'd be curious to see where it goes. We're* already pressed for space as it is.

*Disclaimer: I do work for the University. That doesn't mean I know everything that's going on though!

[blangtang]

surely there was a hotel in downtown Norman at some date in the past.

and maybe the handful of bed and breakfast establishments located around campus fill the demand somewhat for lodging near campus corner/OU.

[edball]

surely there was a hotel in downtown Norman at some date in the past.

and maybe the handful of bed and breakfast establishments located around campus fill the demand somewhat for lodging near campus corner/OU.

There used to be a hotel on Main street. I think it was on the corner of University and Main, on the North side. It was there in the 60's or early 70's.

[BG918]

Many universities have university-owned hotels on campus or nearby. They give alumni special rates, host visiting speakers, and allow people to stay by a bustling college campus. If OU were to rebuild the Sooner Hotel I'd say put it in Campus Corner and make it the cornerstone of a revitalization of University Blvd. Also make it upscale but also modern so visitors can leave Norman impressed.

[jbrown84]

OSU fixed up their run down campus hotel (with donations) and it's extremely nice now. On the Historic Hotels of America list actually.

[BG918]

OSU fixed up their run down campus hotel (with donations) and it's extremely nice now. On the Historic Hotels of America list actually.

The Atherton is very nice, as is the Ranchers Club restaurant inside. Something the size of the Atherton with an upscale restaurant would be PERFECT for Campus Corner.

Back to UNP, I know people working on the Embassy Suites project and substantial completion is still Sep. 21st. So I would guess a grand opening sometime in October.

[Dekoung]

I guess you all read this article in the Transcript this morning. It raises some questions with me.

"He said in January, he made an error when he announced several stores from which they had letters of intent. As a result of the negative backlash, some of the stores decided not to locate in the area." So what stores were announced and what was the negative backlash?

"He said the national economic climate had made it tougher to attract stores and restaurants, but he still expects to be successful. Several national chains have made announcements that they will not be opening new locations until the economy rebounds." I wonder if he was counting on some of these chains?

"In Phase 6, developers are looking at grocers like Whole Foods. Phase 6 is planned for construction in 2011 and 2012, although Nelson said there is no definite timeline." I think the question is would Whole Foods look at UNP not vice versa?

"He said he expects to have the south portion of University North Park between Robinson and Rock Creek Road fully developed in the next five to eight years. At this time, they do not have any plans to do residential or office space." So when might that residential /office space be developed?



Businesses coming to University North Park
By Carol Cole-Frowe


August 14, 2008 10:59 am

— New restaurants, shops and stores are coming to the 280-acre retail development at University North Park, but many of those remain under wraps, said Stanton Nelson, UNP developer.
Nelson told the Norman Chamber of Commerce's aviation committee at their Tuesday luncheon that he and developer Roy Oliver have a strong desire to bring good things to Norman in the 2 million square feet of retail space planned in the UNP retail development west of Max Westheimer Airport, east of Interstate-35 and between Robinson Street and Rock Creek Road.
"(Roy) is from here. I live here," Nelson said. "We wanted to do something that would hopefully be positive. ... We (in Norman) have lost a lot of sales tax dollars to Moore and other places ... Not only is this going to keep hopefully our sales tax dollars here, but we are going to attract from the south, the west, the east and even the north. Hopefully, this will be a place that people will get in the car to come just for the variety of stores that are going to be here."
He said three upscale restaurants are committed to locate around Legacy Park, when Norman councilmembers approve revenue bonds for the $8.5 million in UNP Tax Increment Financing District funds to build it. Park land is going to be donated to the City of Norman as part of the TIF projects.
"What we see as a huge value ... first of all it's going to be a huge amenity to the city," Nelson said about Legacy Park. "But we are also going to have the ability to have two or three restaurant pads around the water feature."
One of those will be a Mahogany Prime Steakhouse from the Hal Smith Restaurant Group. Two others he said he couldn't announce yet.
"Obviously the restaurant pad users want to make sure that the park is built, so it is all contingent on the city," Nelson said. "So I really anticipate that with a vote from council hopefully in September. And hopefully they can start construction sometime in 2009."
Nelson said the group also is waiting on the City regarding plans to firm up on the Rock Creek overpass from 24th Avenue NW to 36th Avenue NW over I-35, before they go further in the design of that portion of the development.
He said the national economic climate had made it tougher to attract stores and restaurants, but he still expects to be successful. Several national chains have made announcements that they will not be opening new locations until the economy rebounds.
But it helps that Norman recently was named No. 6 among the Best Small Cities to Live by Money magazine.
"We're doing better than just about everybody in the nation," Nelson said about central Oklahoma after the meeting. "If they are going to locate anywhere, they should locate here."
He said he expects to have the south portion of University North Park between Robinson and Rock Creek Road fully developed in the next five to eight years. At this time, they do not have any plans to do residential or office space.
"This is a unique project ... when you look at this contiguous (retail) project, it is the fourth largest in the United States," Nelson said.
He said Phase II construction to the north of Kohl's should start in the next 90 to 120 days, with a variety of stores.
The John Q. Hammons Embassy Suites and Conference Center is expected to open Oct. 15.
"That will have a huge benefit ... bringing 2,500 people to town (on the weekend)," Nelson said.
The Logan's Roadhouse near completion will be opening south of the Super Target. A Cheddar's restaurant is planned to open in 2009 nearby.
Nelson said the lifestyle center in Phase 5 will be the focal point of the development, similar to the spine of the entire project. It would include the more upscale stores in the project.
"What we've tried to do is build around the lifestyle center, so it won't just be out there by itself," he said. "Our intent is to come back later this year and have something to show city council (about the lifestyle center)."
Developers are planning an upscale theater complex that would show more art-type movies as well as first-run movies.
"There is a myriad of different concepts that we are looking at," Nelson said. "The feel (for the lifestyle center) is that you can park your car and you can walk from one end to the other. ... We'll have a Main Street feel."
One aviation committee member asked about high-end stores expected to be located in University North Park.
Nelson said recently the city of Chandler, Ariz., paid Neiman-Marcus $40 million to come to town. TIF committee members were told in the initial phases that the area would not support a Nordstrom's or Saks, but could still attract upscale stores.
"The reality is that they do the research on the population base," Nelson said. "Unfortunately, Oklahoma City and Norman, we just don't have the economics to support them."
In Phase 6, developers are looking at grocers like Whole Foods. Phase 6 is planned for construction in 2011 and 2012, although Nelson said there is no definite timeline.
He said the impact to Norman is already being felt, with a current ad valorem tax base of somewhere around $540 million.
"So it's going to have a huge impact to Norman," Nelson said.
Sales tax and ad valorem dollars are already outpacing projections, he said.
"With the 280 acres fully built out, we'll double the tax base," Nelson said.
He said in January, he made an error when he announced several stores from which they had letters of intent. As a result of the negative backlash, some of the stores decided not to locate in the area.
"The hard part about doing this is I know people are wanting to know about specific stores," Nelson said. "I apologize that I can't give you a full list of everybody who's coming."
There are $11.5 million in TIF funds planned to improve the Robinson Street and Tecumseh Road intersections and build the frontage road. Councilmembers recently voted to spent $7.75 million to help build the Rock Creek overpass that would have been part of the funds used to purchase the conference center.
Developers are building other infrastructure like internal roads to make the project work.
"Only one road is part of the TIF," he said. "Every other road is outside of the project."
He said they have no preference about whether frontage roads along I-35 should be one-way or two-way, an issue being discussed in conjunction with the upcoming I-35 six-lane widening project by the Oklahoma Department of Transportation.
"What we'd like to see is if it's one-way, it needs to be one-way throughout the city. Because there is some talk of breaking it up," Nelson said. "I just feel like people will be confused ... We're comfortable either way and we'll support the city in whatever direction they opt to take."
He urged Norman residents to have patience about how the development is unfolding and said he believes the development will meet the expectations of the public when it's fully built out.
"Hopefully it will have a huge, positive, long-lasting impact on Norman, not only from a sales tax standpoint, but on the public schools and everything associated with the ad valorem tax base," Nelson said.
Carol Cole-Frowe 366-3538 ccole@normantranscript.com

[Soonerman]

Is Dicks Sporting Goods still planning on coming to UNP?

[BG918]

"The feel (for the lifestyle center) is that you can park your car and you can walk from one end to the other. ... We'll have a Main Street feel."

Why not just build on real Main Street then? Maybe we wouldn't want this kind of development (or developer) in downtown anyway as they are dragging their feet and everything has been below expectations so far. I honestly never expected anything better though, it's a giant strip mall with bland chain stores that serve their purpose with a nice hotel/conference center. If I was showing a visitor around Norman I would not take them there, how is it any different than anywhere else in the country? Norman should be trying harder to continue development downtown and around OU instead of in this sprawling area along I-35. If I were an upscale retailer I would rather be in Campus Corner near boutiques and local eateries right next to a university instead of surrounded by parking lots, the airport, and stores like Dress Barn and Kohl's.

[BFizzy]

OU doesn't own Main St, so how could they develop it? The land that they are developing is very valuable for what it is.

The developer was actually ahead of schedule for the first two phases. They aren't the ones dragging their feet.

The first two phases have turned out to be exactly what they said they would be. Upscale tenants aren't supposed to come until the Lifestyle Center phase. It's too early to complain about the tenants. All "lifestyle" centers have big box stores around them.

Does anyone really think that this developer isn't trying to get upscale tenants? If the store refuses to come, it's not the developer's fault.

[venture]

People will whine and complain about anything and everything, then try to justify it. Fizzy...sometimes it is best to just laugh at their pathetic behavior and move on.

Needless to say, the project has provided more jobs and a really nice hotel that Norman has really needed.

[BFizzy]

It's definitely nicer than the big mound of dirt that was there before.

[Superhyper]

It's definitely nicer than the big mound of dirt that was there before.

Amen to that!

[soonerliberal]

People will whine and complain about anything and everything, then try to justify it. Fizzy...sometimes it is best to just laugh at their pathetic behavior and move on.

Needless to say, the project has provided more jobs and a really nice hotel that Norman has really needed.

Thanks for saying what most of us were thinking.

This project has been one of the rare ones that has been EXACTLY as we have been promised. I take Sooner Investment Group at their word. They have high-quality projects. The two highest quality "strip malls" in the OKC are theirs: University North Park and the Midwest City Town Center.

[jbrown84]

"He said in January, he made an error when he announced several stores from which they had letters of intent. As a result of the negative backlash, some of the stores decided not to locate in the area." So what stores were announced and what was the negative backlash?

This is the one that I'm curious about.

[BG918]

OU doesn't own Main St, so how could they develop it? The land that they are developing is very valuable for what it is.

The developer was actually ahead of schedule for the first two phases. They aren't the ones dragging their feet.

The first two phases have turned out to be exactly what they said they would be. Upscale tenants aren't supposed to come until the Lifestyle Center phase. It's too early to complain about the tenants. All "lifestyle" centers have big box stores around them.

Does anyone really think that this developer isn't trying to get upscale tenants? If the store refuses to come, it's not the developer's fault.

I realize OU doesn't own Main Street but they own a lot of property just to the south. I think it's good they have developed something there by the airport and Norman needs those big box stores and really needed that hotel. I just think OU would be better off working to redevelop the gateway to the university along Main that is currently not that attractive instead of trying to lure upscale stores to a faux-Main Street setting next to the airport and big box stores. Trust me I am GLAD we have this development for the tax revenue and increased shopping/dining options it provides, although I will probably never shop anywhere there except Target.

Ohio State University recently completed a project by their campus which took a really rundown stretch of High Street that serves as a gateway to their campus and revitalized it with stores, restaurants, and university offices. I've been to Columbus when it was still rundown and it makes downtown Norman look like Brookhaven, I mean it was really rundown and even dangerous. Now it is great, I saw it on a trip I took up there a couple years ago and couldn't believe the transformation and what it has done for Ohio State. I was thinking the whole time how great that would be for OU to do the same with Main as you enter downtown coming on Main or Flood from I-35 and then down University to Boyd. Maybe if they are successful with the rest of UNP they will have the money to finally do that, it is definitely overdue.