Thou Shalt Not Kill

[Toadrax]

You people are making a big assumption, that we know for a fact that the people we are executing committed the crimes they are being executed for.

Mistakes happen.. how will God feel when you execute an innocent person?

Nothing can ever be proved to be absolutely true, even with a confession. No system can be perfect. Our society needs to be protected, but there is no way to prosecute the guilty without nabbing a few innocent once in awhile. Going to prison for the rest of your life when you are innocent is pretty bad, but at least you get a life and can see/write your family and someday the truth may set you free.

We are fallable, you should know your limitations and act accordingly. To do otherwise is evil.

[solitude]

You people are making a big assumption, that we know for a fact that the people we are executing committed the crimes they are being executed for.

Mistakes happen.. how will God feel when you execute an innocent person?

Nothing can ever be proved to be absolutely true, even with a confession. No system can be perfect. Our society needs to be protected, but there is no way to prosecute the guilty without nabbing a few innocent once in awhile. Going to prison for the rest of your life when you are innocent is pretty bad, but at least you get a life and can see/write your family and someday the truth may set you free.

We are fallable, you should know your limitations and act accordingly. To do otherwise is evil.

You also make a very good point. No telling how many innocent people we executed before DNA. Look at all the innocent people who have been locked up for years for crimes that, thank GOD, DNA, years later, exonerated them.

I am also troubled by fraudulent prosecutions when the prosecutor and corrupt forensics "specialists" team up to railroad an individual(s). Sound familiar? We've seen that right here in our own county.

You all make good points against the death penalty. In a perfect world, with perfect justice, I support the death penalty. But, we're obviously not there yet - and never will be. Maybe I should revisit this issue.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

That's why I really don't support it generally.

I don't think it should be taken off the table (Mr. McVeigh anybody?), but I think it should be a very, VERY rare occasion.

[Midtowner]

(Mr. McVeigh anybody?)n.

Mr. Nichols?

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

What about him?

[Midtowner]

What about him?

I can't say it any better than I already said it:

Solitude, I'm surprised to hear you say that. You seem to be a constant advocate for social justice. I was once in favor of capital punishment. Then Terry Nichols happened.

Here's a guy who did some very bad things, was a co-conspirator in the at-the-time largest terrorist attack on American soil. He killed children for chrissakes.

The full weight and force of the federal government was brought to bear on him -- and he got life.

Then the state decided it'd have a go at it. We thought it was a sure thing. Our death penalty laws were liberalized just for him! Yet still, one juror lied during voire dire and had moral problems with sentencing him to death. So Terry Nichols, one of the most prolific killers in American history gets to live while we, in that same time period sentenced a woman to death for killing her husband for money.

When I think of justice, I think of equal justice for all and that there should be a somewhat predictable penalty for any given crime. If we can't do that with something as powerful as the death penalty, then IMHO, we ought not have it. It needs to be administered with justice and fairly to all or not at all.

If what Nichols did doesn't deserve the needle (or for that matter, a much more brutal end), then I don't know what does.

ETA: Yes, again, I will say I threw up in my mouth a bit when I typed "social justice."

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

F*ck him. He's one of the ones that SHOULD get it.

[Karried]

We all say that I'd give em the chair or whatever - but if I was actually in that position on the jury deciding if someone was going to die or not... that would be tough. Who am I to to decide someone's life? Just because I got "lucky" and picked for the jury? I go back and forth on this one. Then you hear the horror stories of innocent people being executed. I don't know about this one.

How would you feel if the murdered victim was a loved one of yours and their killer was being tried?

[Midtowner]

But he won't.

If we can't put Terry Nichols to death, how the hell do we justify executing someone like Brenda Andrews who only killed one person???

[Midtowner]

How would you feel if the murdered victim was a loved one of yours and their killer was being tried?

I had a Kitty Dukakis flashback just now.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

But he won't.

If we can't put Terry Nichols to death, how the hell do we justify executing someone like Brenda Andrews who only killed one person???

Don't know the particulars of her case...But are you planning on practicing non-sequitur law? What does one have to do with the other? I mean...Past the murder thing...If the death penalty is on the table in each case...How do you have a juror on one trial affect the outcome of a completely unrelated one?

I guess that the "Chewbacca" defense did work though...So you may be on to something.

[Karried]

Let me rephrase it...

We all say that I'd give em the chair or whatever - but if I was actually in that position on the jury deciding if someone was going to die or not...

What if you were in the position of being related to the victim and their killer was being tried?

Would it make that decision easier to make? I'm just curious about how people would feel if they were personally affected rather than being on a jury.

Midtowner, what do you mean about Kitty Dukakis - electric chair - electric shock ??

[Midtowner]

Don't know the particulars of her case...But are you planning on practicing non-sequitur law? What does one have to do with the other? I mean...Past the murder thing...If the death penalty is on the table in each case...How do you have a juror on one trial affect the outcome of a completely unrelated one?

I guess that the "Chewbacca" defense did work though...So you may be on to something.

Non sequitur? Really?

Tim McVeigh got death. Terry Nichols got life for the same crime.

Now, if you'll accept my nutso premise that killing 168 people is worse than killing one person, then you can see how I might be shocked that 168 murders = life in prison while 1 murder warrants death and that some call that "justice."

The point is that the standard is arbitrary and capricious as juries often are, and when we're dealing with matters of life and death, some folks might think that's a bad thing.

How do we argue that the death penalty is a deterrent when it's not a certainty? (proved by the life sentence received by an individual who helped perpetrate one of the most brutal and sick acts in the history of this country)

[Midtowner]

Midtowner, what do you mean about Kitty Dukakis - electric chair - electric shock ??

Famous debate question to Michael Dukakis -- "If your wife were raped and murdered, would you support the death penalty for her killers?"

I was in grade school at the time, but I was even aware of that question back then.

Clearly, my parents weren't adequately monitoring my television viewing.

[MadMonk]

Non sequitur? Really?

Tim McVeigh got death. Terry Nichols got life for the same crime.

Now, if you'll accept my nutso premise that killing 168 people is worse than killing one person, then you can see how I might be shocked that 168 murders = life in prison while 1 murder warrants death and that some call that "justice."

The point is that the standard is arbitrary and capricious as juries often are, and when we're dealing with matters of life and death, some folks might think that's a bad thing.

How do we argue that the death penalty is a deterrent when it's not a certainty? (proved by the life sentence received by an individual who helped perpetrate one of the most brutal and sick acts in the history of this country)

But did Nichols drive the truck, park it in front of the building, set the timer (or whatever) and walk away? Sure he was involved in the planning, but he didn't actually do the deed. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been put to death, but the fact that he didn't actually "push the button" is something that I'm sure the jurors considered.

[Midtowner]

But did Nichols drive the truck, park it in front of the building, set the timer (or whatever) and walk away? Sure he was involved in the planning, but he didn't actually do the deed. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been put to death, but the fact that he didn't actually "push the button" is something that I'm sure the jurors considered.

They did convict on 161 counts of murder in the first degree, so they thought that Terry Nichols killed 161 people, intentionally and with malice aforethought.

There are people sitting on death row for much, much less.