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Thread: Malls updating for the 21st century

  1. #1
    Patrick Guest

    Default Malls updating for the 21st century

    Sure, malls are slowly becoming a thing of the past, but those that want to remain healthy in this day and age are having to make some changes. This was a pretty interesting article I read today. Sounds like Heritage Park and Crossroads both need to brighten things up a little if they expect to remain vibrant. They both need to say goodbye to the dark flooring and drab appearance, and brighten up the floors, update the railings, and improve the overall shopping experience. Of course, there's a better chance of this happening with Crossroads
    than Heritage Park. Heritage Park is currently for sale, and has beenf or sometime, so I doubt Simon Property group is interested in improving the mall.
    Crossroads does have potential though, and Macerich property group could do more to help themselves, instead of blaming it in off the wall problems. First they blamed Crossroads' problems to I-35 construction. Now they're blaming them on a lack of an anchor. Until they completely renovate the mall like Quail Springs and Penn Square did, they can forget about competiting in today's competitive mall market.

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    Marketing the mall: Metro malls change with the times, and the customer, to survive
    Posted: Monday, October 25, 2004
    Marketing the mall: Metro malls change with the times, and the customer, to survive

    By Ja’Rena Smith
    jsmith@okcbusiness.com

    Long gone are the days of dark brown tile, sleepy lounge music and massive greenery that once ruled the atmosphere of American malls. From the earth-tone decor of the early Seventies and Eighties to the sunny atriums of the Nineties, malls everywhere are jumping on the makeover bandwagon as they strive to meet customer wants.

    Lynn Palmerton, general manager for Sooner Mall in Norman, said that although the decor of malls once reflected the design of the times in which they were created, most of the mega centers are coming into the 21st century.

    “Now the trend is for a much lighter and brighter atmosphere,” Palmerton said. “You’ll see with the newer malls around the country that they are incorporating lighter color schemes. This is a real transformation.”

    But the new face of malls does not come with a paintbrush alone.

    John Bucksbaum, CEO for General Growth Properties, said the degree of competition among malls has increased the importance of better facilities and amenities.

    “A great deal of malls did not have anything done to them between 1970 and 1990,” Bucksbaum said. “Good owners have come to the understanding that you must keep the mall interesting.”

    General Growth Properties is a real estate investment company that manages more than 170 regional malls, including Sooner Mall and Quail Springs Mall.

    Bucksbaum said the biggest change malls have made is the emphasis on the quality of services, and with this emphasis comes renovations.

    Bucksbaum said that General Growth spent nearly $300 million on renovations in the last year. He said renovations are critical in order to keep malls vibrant for consumers and retailers.

    “If you don’t have what the customers want, then you are not going go be successful,” he said.

    Through exit surveys and open communication with consumers, many mall managers are finding that what people want is entertainment.

    “The entertainment aspect is a big part of what’s happening at malls right now,” Palmerton said. “A lot of people like to use the term ‘shoppertainment.’”

    From carousels to ice skating rinks to movie theaters, the lengths to which malls are going to keep customers entertained seems never-ending.

    “We really want to provide the shopper in the community with the total experience,” said Stacey Aldridge, senior marketing manager for Quail Springs Mall.

    In 1998, Quail Springs added a 24-screen movie theater. The same year, the mall also renovated the food court, more than doubling its seating capacity.

    Entertainment is not the only change on malls’ radar screens. Before many consumers attempt to find entertainment, many look for what they expect to find in their own homes -- comfort.

    “If people are spending a whole day shopping, they would like a comfortable place to sit,” Aldridge said.

    Hence the creation of the padded-seat areas. Known as “Comfort Zones” at Sooner Mall, these areas provide a place for customers to take a break from their shopping without having to leave the mall.

    Jeannette Smith, director of mall marketing at Penn Square Mall, said the idea of a resting area was unheard of in the early days of malls.

    “When malls first opened, there would not be a bench in sight,” Smith said. “The idea was to keep people moving, but we are now realizing that customers need a break.”

    Even services such as restrooms have changed, as most malls have added “family” restrooms and made the facilities more visible.

    “The amenities are a big change, first and foremost with the restrooms,” Palmerton said. “In the past, restrooms were hidden down a corridor or behind stores. You kind of had to walk down a long corridor to find them.

    “Now they’re much more family oriented.”

    But amenities and entertainment alone cannot predict the success of a mall, as was the case with Crossroads Mall.

    Christi Parks, senior marketing manager for Crossroads, said the shopping center had its largest challenge in March 2001 with the loss of the Montgomery Ward.

    “Malls ride the wave with the success of department stores, and with the failure of a department store, like Montgomery Ward, it can be very hurtful,” Parks said.

    Crossroads’ Montgomery Ward was once the strongest Ward in the state, but when the company went bankrupt in December 2000, the chain weakened and left the metro market.

    The area that Montgomery Ward occupied in Crossroads has remained vacant since its departure. Parks said the absence of an anchor retail store has decreased the amount of traffic in that area of the mall.

    Parks said that although the loss has created a downside, Crossroads expects to see happier times, especially since they have plans in the works for a new department store.

    “We are a shopping tradition,” Parks said. “The perception of Crossroads has struggled, something we have struggled to overcome, but we are not going anywhere.”

    Although Parks would not say what retailer would be coming to Crossroads, she did say the store would be new to the Oklahoma market, an aspect that is important to many malls.

    Penn Square’s Smith said her mall’s strategy has always been to stay on the forefront of the city by bringing in merchants who are new to the area.

    One of the biggest ways malls are staying on the forefront is by tapping into the teen market. General Growth Properties named teens as the second most important market, after the 25 to 45-year-old woman.

    The prevalence of Abercrombie & Fitch and Gap stores is evidence that retailers and mall managers have taken notice of the new, younger face of shoppers.

    “We, as a company, have always been very supportive of teens,” Bucksbaum said. “They have tremendous buying power and become the future buyers.”

  2. #2

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Crossroads Mall management may not realize what they have. If only they spruced it up a bit, it could be one of the premier malls in OKC. Until then, it's the ghetto mall.

  3. Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    The only thing Crossroads missing is the "Gansta Rap." They have the gang members.

    Seriously. Yes. They do need a total renovation. They should all but close the mall and totally remodel the inside from top to bottom. Granted, they installed an elevator and a carosel. However, they look just like these houses that the owners just slapped on three walls on back and called it an addition or tossed a bunch of bricks in place of the garage door and called it a room. You cal still see how outdated the place is.

    Do I like Crossroads? Not really. I did. Now it is outdated and unsafe. I just wonder how long it will be before the ak47's start blasting in the center court. Then maybe the owners will get the message... Probably not. Reasons. They could care less, it is a tax loss. Plus, no national coverage of the gang war.

  4. #4
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    The mall management needs to take a trip through Woodland Hills Mall in Tulsa. It's layed out very similar to Crossroads, but a complete renovation a few years back realy made a difference. Crossroads could look just like Woodland Hills. The dark and drab warehouse-look needs to be replaced with a brighter, more inviting look. Tiling the glazed concrete floors would be a good start. Covering the warehouse-like ceiling and installing more skylights would be a good move. Replacing old railing with new glass railing would help. Installing excalators at each end would at least bring the mall into the 20th century! lol!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Patrick,

    Have you spoken with mall management? What do they say to the idea of a multi-million dollar updating and renovation?

    Luke

  6. #6
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    I've spoken with Christi over at Crossroads twice. I don't get over there very often, so I don't really know the mall management over there like I know Bob Landdec and Jeanette Smith at Penn. But, last time I talked to her and told her what the mall needed, she kind of blew me off and blamed the status of the mall on recent construction on I-35 and the lack of an anchor to replace Wards. I tried to explain to her that finding a new anchor would be much easier if the mall had some visual appeal, but she just didn't seem to get it. She went off and started bragging about the recent improvements they made to center court. Granted, the improvements to center court are a start, but they're only the tip of the iceberg of what really needs to be done at the mall.

    Just FYI: Urban Property Inc. spent $10 million on the recent renovation of Penn Square Mall. The fountain in center court alone cost $400,000. Simon Property Group, current owner of Penn Square, is currently spending well over $1 million to replace all 36 AC/Heating units that are about 15 years old. After that they'll tackle replacing the entire roof......that's estimating at about $2-3 mill.

    So, basically, what am I trying to say? Well, I'm not quite sure where Macerich Property group is spending their money at Crossroads, but it definitely isn't on the appearance of the mall. While other malls are spending millions on upgrades, the owners of Crossroads continue to fall behind in the OKC market.

  7. Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    I know a lot of companies keep some non profitable properties, locations or other interests for capitol loss. It off sets the capitol gains and sometimes is so large, it can actually eliminate their taxes, showing zero earnings or even loss of earnings.

    The common, non business community calls this a "tax write off."

    I know every major city has at least one dump mall. Last time I checked, the Dallas area it was Richardson Square Mall. Other types of companies have similar situations. Even a lot of rental property owners have dumps they can count as a capitol loss. The loser is the tenant. They are treated like dirt, given low end appliances and other neccesities, and the home is usually not well maintained. In directly, Crossroads is that property.

    The owners may be using it for their capitol loss. Of course, it could also be (this is redundant) they could care less. Or other reasons including not realizing what they are doing to the economy of South Oklahoma City. Christi Parks has been at Crossroads for many years. I think over 20. She should know what is going on and realize the negitave impact their lack of renovation and promotion is doing.

    Of course, she could also have been brainwashed by being ordered to say what she did. Either way, we lose. Crappy mall, crappy management, crappy ownership, and thiose gangsters that line the mall like roaches.

  8. Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Spokespeople like Christi Parks aren't paid to express their views. They're paid to spin and promote. Cynicism aside, I don't know why Macerich isn't doing more.

    We may be seeing the end of indoor mall age in OKC, making way for the outdoor lifestyle centers. Penn Square Mall is different; many of their tenants have outdoor stores. It's just that we haven't offered the right development to locate them outside. Until this Flatiron Town Center comes around, Penn Square will remain the region's premier shopping destination. That's not a bad thing; at least we have one.
    Continue the Renaissance

  9. #9
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Hmmmmm.....I bet Simon Property Group wishes now that Urban Property Inc. would've left Penn Square as an open air shopping center! For those of you that may not know, Penn Square back in the day was sort of like Utica Square in Tulsa.....an open air shopping area. I guess the only thing in the city that even begins to come close is Brixton Square, but that's not a really good example.

  10. #10
    USG'86 Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    I think it may be a bit unfair to compare Crossroads with Woodland Hills with respect to investing in improvements. Woodland Hills is unique in that it is the largest mall in Oklahoma. Additionally, It has no comperably-sized competition in Tulsa. The decision to invest in a mall makeover for Woodland Hills was likely an easy one. Eastland Mall would be a better comparison to Crossroads. Eastland is newer (technically older, but that's another story), but geographically and socio-economically speaking, very similar. Remember, Location, Location, Location.

    The financial health of the surrounding neighborhood cannot be overlooked when evaluating the potential of Crossroads or Eastland. Eastland is currently in much worse shape than Crossroads, but is owned by Simon. Obviously, if Simon can see enough potential in Penn Square to invest multi-millions on infrastructure repairs, but lets the centerpiece fountain at Eastland go dry, we might learn a little about their priorities. It's not like Simon can't afford to keep the fountain running! They have all but given up on Eastland. They can certainly afford to bring the mall into the 21st century, but they are aware that that would be a waste of resources in a property with a near 50% vacancy.

    Granted, Crossroads isn't that bad yet, but the comparison is still fairly accurate. It's in a poor location that's getting worse by the day. I don't see the outlook getting much better for Crossroads. It's at a point right now that a major, major renovation could tip the scales in its favor. However, it would be a very risky investment because it could be for naught. Eastland opened in the mid 80s. The party only lasted about 15 years. 20 years later and it's a virtual ghost town. It's next step in the evolutionary process will either be a business park (like Shepherd Mall), a Flea Market (like Festival Mall in Arlington, TX), or bulldozed and redeveloped (like Prestonwood Mall in Dallas). It'll be a while before Crossroads gets to that point, but it seems once they get to a certain point and management gives up, it's a slippery slope to the end. I give Crossroads another 10 unless something drastic happens to the community, not the mall itself.

  11. #11
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    First off, USG'86, welcome to OKC Talk, we're glad to have you!

    I agree with you fully. Business smarts say that the corporation is going to invest in areas where they'll get a good return. Unfortunately, as you mention, investing millions in Eastland Mall or Crossroads Mall, probably wouldn't give a good return, but investing millions in Penn Square and Woodland Hills has resulted in huge returns from high end national retailers paying high rents at those malls.

    Crossroads Mall is on the edge. It still has 4 anchors and can be saved if Macerich acts quickly. Unfortunately, malls like Eastland and Heritage Park are long gone with huge vacancy rates.

    I know many of us are sad to see malls slide into history, but fortunately, most are being put to other uses, as you mentioned with Shepherd Mall. Shepherd Mall has been useful in attracting two major call centers to the metro, Farmers and AOL. So, it's just useful to the metro in another area.

    I appreciate your informative and extremely detailed post!

  12. #12
    Jay Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Chances are Eastland Mall is up for sale. Simon just recently sold Heritage Park Mall in Midwest City to private developers. If you have ever been in Heritage Park you will know its like stepping back into the 80's. The mall is dark with cobblestone floors and many vacancies.

    I would not be suprised if Crossroads is for sale. Quail Springs and Penn Square have both been through several makeovers over the past few years. Crossroads has only been through two makeovers over the last decade. The latest makeover at Crossroads was a joke. They completely missed the boat on what customers wanted. They tore out the old ramp and removed the fountain. They added a playground, a carousel and a glass elevator. Then put down tacky grey retail grade carpet to cover the remaining space. You almost get the impression they spent too much money on the elevator and skimped on the rest.

    I think its only a matter of time before Foley's or Dillards decides that its just not feasible to stay open at Crossroads. Who ever goes first you can guarantee the other will follow. JcPenney will probably tuff it out until the end. Just like they did at Shepard Mall.

    At this point and time the only thing that will save Crossroads is Urban Renewal.

  13. #13
    USG'86 Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Thanks, Patrick.

    You know, while reading your reply I had a rather disturbing epiffany. I suspect Crossroad's biggest competition right now is the Super Wal-Mart.

    The only reason I go out there now is for Best Buy, and that doesn't even get me inside the mall. About my only excuse for going inside is to reminisce about the old days, or if Dillards & Foley's is having a big sale. If management could entice Best Buy to move inside, that could tip the scales for the mall just enough.

    Another anchor that would be great in Crossroads would be Steve & Barry's University Sportswear. They're typically a single-story anchor store, but that'd be better than an empty Wards. They're a sort of like an Old Navy, but not quite as trendy. Interesting but very inexpensive clothing. It would be very unique to Oklahoma.

    Goin' to bed now.

  14. #14
    USG'86 Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Okay, well that was weird. I just read on the southside update thread that Steve & Barry's has just moved into Crossroads. I think it's a perfect fit. People may grow a bit weary of the quality of the clothing, but so far that hasn't slowed down Old Navy much.

    I tend to agree with oklacity75's dire assessment of Crossroads. However, I don't think we should be writing it's obit just yet.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    THe more I think about it, the more I think mall management at Crossroads doesn't want to be upscale. Their market is the slightly-above-wal-mart quality stuff. And the last time I was there it was packed... with, let's say, a different breed of cat than you might find at Penn Square.

    Think about this, though. Just like those who frequent Penn Square may feel slightly uncomfortable going to Crossroads, I'll bet that those who visit Crossroads frequently don't feel very comfortable at Penn Square.

    Different strokes for different folks. And I think Crossroads is right up a lot of folks alley.

  16. Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Crossroads should be a blend of upscale and medium scale shops. make it out of the price range for the gang bangers... Wait... Their price range is shoplifting. Crossroads can survive with a major renovation and better shops. Not low end shops like dollar stores. Leave those for the strip centers.

  17. #17
    Patrick Guest

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    I agree....Crossroads could move a little more upscale than they are now, simply by renovating the mall to bring it into the 21st Century, and by adding more national retailers.

    Quail Springs doesn't really have any upscale stores...it has a good mix of mid to low scale stores. They don't have upscale stores like Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma, Banana Republic, J. Jill, J. Crew, etc. But, they have national retailers like New York and Company and Express. They seem to cater mostly to families. Crossroads could do the same.

    I find it quite weird when everytime I go to Crossroads, I walk by Christopher and Banks, an upscale clothing store, and I always comment on how out of place that store looks at Crossroads. Why? It's all image. Crossroads could help the problem out by renovating the mall.

    You know, the probably have the second nicest Dillards in the city. It's a 3 level Dillards....not too shabby! The only 3 level Dillards in the city. The mall has some great things going for it, mall management just needs to do more to capitalize on it.

  18. Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Do anyone know the reason why they pulled out the fountain? Wasn't that some kinda icon for Crossroads?

    The deaf community never picked Crossroads for the city's monthly Silent Dinner. Guess who the winner? Penn Square. Why? Because the managements did it right with the food court being together.

    For Tulsa, the city's Silent Dinner is at Woodland Hills. Why? Same glorious reason as Penn Square.

    It would be tough to give Crossroads a total reconstructions throughout the mall, but the best that I can see that all the resturants and food place be moved to the center area surrounding the carosel and playground. They should move the carosel to the other side of the elevator, take out the entire playground, and set up tables and chairs along side with a new fountain.

    As for the playground, just take up a vacant space big enough for a new playground with the actual better stuff for the kids. The mall can charge parents for dropping their kids off there while they shop. Yeah, parents and children would have to wear paper wrist with matching vertification code or computerized photograph taken during dropoff to confirm ownership.

    As stated by someone else, replace the rails with glass similar to Penn Square, put in modern tiles, more skylights and plants.

    Isn't the rent/lease one of the major factor for businesses to leave Crossroads? The management needs to be smart by lowering the prices on spaces and that will attract businesses. The more businesses come, the more customers visit, and the more money is spent. For example (just a number example), it is better to charge $50 a space and have 25 tenets than $100 a space and have 10 tenets.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Hmmmmm.....I bet Simon Property Group wishes now that Urban Property Inc. would've left Penn Square as an open air shopping center! For those of you that may not know, Penn Square back in the day was sort of like Utica Square in Tulsa.....an open air shopping area. I guess the only thing in the city that even begins to come close is Brixton Square, but that's not a really good example.
    its nice in all to have an open air shoppping center but look at Dallas both Nortpark and Galleria are enclosed as is Houston's Galleria and doubt the Flatiron town center will be as large as Penn

  20. #20

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Do anyone know the reason why they pulled out the fountain? Wasn't that some kinda icon for Crossroads?

    The deaf community never picked Crossroads for the city's monthly Silent Dinner. Guess who the winner? Penn Square. Why? Because the managements did it right with the food court being together.

    For Tulsa, the city's Silent Dinner is at Woodland Hills. Why? Same glorious reason as Penn Square.

    It would be tough to give Crossroads a total reconstructions throughout the mall, but the best that I can see that all the resturants and food place be moved to the center area surrounding the carosel and playground. They should move the carosel to the other side of the elevator, take out the entire playground, and set up tables and chairs along side with a new fountain.

    As for the playground, just take up a vacant space big enough for a new playground with the actual better stuff for the kids. The mall can charge parents for dropping their kids off there while they shop. Yeah, parents and children would have to wear paper wrist with matching vertification code or computerized photograph taken during dropoff to confirm ownership.

    As stated by someone else, replace the rails with glass similar to Penn Square, put in modern tiles, more skylights and plants.

    Isn't the rent/lease one of the major factor for businesses to leave Crossroads? The management needs to be smart by lowering the prices on spaces and that will attract businesses. The more businesses come, the more customers visit, and the more money is spent. For example (just a number example), it is better to charge $50 a space and have 25 tenets than $100 a space and have 10 tenets.

    Are you deaf because I am deaf myself. I been to the deaf community at Penn Square Mall years ago, do they still do the silent dinner currently?

  21. Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    You could say that I'm deaf. Ask Karried. lol

    The deaf community, just about the whole thousands of them, know me as Thunder.

    Yeah, they still have silent dinners at Penn Square and SLRS host them.

    TSHA host the one at Woodland Hills in Tulsa.

    There are other silent dinners for smaller towns and other social gatherings, such as deaf coffee chat, which Starbucks is the winner. lol

    How you manage to not be around the deaf people for years?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    You could say that I'm deaf. Ask Karried. lol

    The deaf community, just about the whole thousands of them, know me as Thunder.

    Yeah, they still have silent dinners at Penn Square and SLRS host them.

    TSHA host the one at Woodland Hills in Tulsa.

    There are other silent dinners for smaller towns and other social gatherings, such as deaf coffee chat, which Starbucks is the winner. lol

    How you manage to not be around the deaf people for years?
    Because they spread bad rumors about me, that's why

  23. Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Bad rumors? We all get bad rumors! LOL Hell, some spread bad rumors of me, but overall they know I'm a nice guy. I've given to the community from time to time when I can. I would even give the OKC deaf club a brand new building with all the bells and whistles if I ever do win the lottery. lol

    If you wanna talk, you can reach me on YIM or AIM >>> ThunderOKC

  24. #24

    Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Bad rumors? We all get bad rumors! LOL Hell, some spread bad rumors of me, but overall they know I'm a nice guy. I've given to the community from time to time when I can. I would even give the OKC deaf club a brand new building with all the bells and whistles if I ever do win the lottery. lol

    If you wanna talk, you can reach me on YIM or AIM >>> ThunderOKC
    Cool dude, you can YIM or AIM >>>>Spacehog80 although I am not online now, I'm at boring work, who knows though, we might have met before....

  25. Default Re: Malls updating for the 21st century

    Know of any alien looking guy from Del City? lol

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