Council Grove

[Doug Loudenback]

Have you ever seen this historical marker?



It's around NW 10th and Council Road. See the full story at Doug Dawgz Blog: Council Grove

[metro]

Cool history Doug!

[CCOKC]

My office is at 10th and Council and I never knew that marker was there. I am definitely going to check it out, maybe at lunch today. Thanks for all of the great information Doug.

[hipsterdoofus]

Nice work Doug...you need to take people on history fieldtrips, I think!

[LIL_WAYNE_4_PREZIDENT08]

My office is at 10th and Council and I never knew that marker was there. I am definitely going to check it out, maybe at lunch today. Thanks for all of the great information Doug.

You work at the liquor store?

[Doug Loudenback]

I've continued to expand the article this morning as I find additional stuff. If you looked at it early this morning, it is quite different now ... and I'm still looking for more data. Pretty neat, finding something right under one's nose! History is fun!

Thanks to all for the nice comments.

[Kerry]

So now we know where Council Road gets its name from.

[FRISKY]

I used to own land in that area. The text on the official plat for the land (written in the early 1900s and still on file) makes interesting reading; it excludes “negroes” from buying or homesteading any property in the area.

My-my, things have sure changed in the last hundred years… Can you imagine what would happen if somebody added something like that to an official document in this day-and-age.

[Doug Loudenback]

I used to own land in that area. The text on the official plat for the land (written in the early 1900s and still on file) makes interesting reading; it excludes “negroes” from buying or homesteading any property in the area.

My-my, things have sure changed in the last hundred years… Can you imagine what would happen if somebody added something like that to an official document in this day-and-age.

My opinion on that is that it would get them where they belong. But, historically and unfortunately, that sort of thing wasn't uncommon at all in days gone by.

[Joe Kimball]

So now we know where Council Road gets its name from.

Beat me to it.

[bornhere]

I read somewhere that the foundation of Chisolm's trading post is still there, but I have no idea where to look.

[Kerry]

If in existance, it is probably under several inches or more of dirt.

[dismayed]

Isn't Council Grove Elementary over there around 10th and Council? I always wondered what that name was all about.

[PapaJack]

Nice work Doug!

You continue to pique my interest into OKC history. A nagging question in my mind has been: Most cities are built upon existing trading posts or ports, such as Tulsa, St Louis, New Amsterdam, McAlester, etc. Chisolm's trading post, Council Grove and Ft. Reno are all west of OKC. Why was OKC "chosen" as a settlement with an overnight population of 10,000?

Answer please?

[Martin]

while trails were the original trading routes through oklahoma, the railways were playing a vital transportation role by 1889. -M

[Doug Loudenback]

Nice work Doug!

You continue to pique my interest into OKC history. A nagging question in my mind has been: Most cities are built upon existing trading posts or ports, such as Tulsa, St Louis, New Amsterdam, McAlester, etc. Chisolm's trading post, Council Grove and Ft. Reno are all west of OKC. Why was OKC "chosen" as a settlement with an overnight population of 10,000?

Answer please?

I know of no reasons that "Oklahoma" (not then "City") was chosen other than:

1. The AT&SF railway way decided to have a station in the middle of the state
2. We were it.

Proximity to a river may/may not have been part of Santa Fe's decision, I don't know.

Here's a drawing from the Historical Atlas of Oklahoma (2006) showing the state in 1889, apparently before the Land Run ...

Larger image: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._staterail.jpg



I'm sure there was more but that has to be the core reason. I don't know that much about the Land Run, though.

[Doug Loudenback]

Isn't Council Grove Elementary over there around 10th and Council? I always wondered what that name was all about.

Yes, it's at 7721 W. Melrose, Melrose being between NW 10th & W Reno.

[Doug Loudenback]

If in existance, it is probably under several inches or more of dirt.

Also, don't forget that Lake Overholser didn't exist then and the North Canadian's route may have been changed when the Dam was constructed in 1919, I think. Now, that would be a cool undertaking of the city ... a reconstruction of the trading post (if any such images exist).

[CCOKC]

You work at the liquor store?

No, I don't work at the liquor store but my accounting office is across the street and down a block. The liquor store comes in handy January-April (jk).

I drove by the marker yesterday. It is about half a mile west of me at Eagle which is the entry to the western lake road. I did not walk up to it as I was dressed in a suit and it looks as if the closest parking may be at the dam. I swear I have driven by that spot dozens of times and never noticed it.

[Doug Loudenback]

Here's a little more information relating to your question, PapaJack, from the book below published by the University of Nebraska Press (1982):



The book shows drawings of the Santa Fe's 1880 and 1900 maps ... I've not pinpointed when the route through Oklahoma City was constructed yet but I think it was done in 1885 ...





At page 134, this text appears (I've highlighted the relevant part):



The page from the book, above, says that the Santa Fe brought in 11 special trains on April 22, each carrying 1000 people! To be sure, some of them got off at Guthrie and perhaps other places. But, back to my point:

No Santa Fe railroad and/or no Santa Fe depot, no Oklahoma City.

Here's an image of the Santa Fe routes as of 1891 ...

Larger image: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...topeka1891.jpg



Here is an unidentified image from and in the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce's files ... it's hard to tell (a) where this train was and/or (b) if it was doctored by an early day photographer in some way. Somehow, it just doesn't look quite right to me. But, either way, it was probably not dissimilar to real life scenes in Okc at the Santa Fe depot. Thanks to Dean Schirf and the Greater Okc Chamber for this photo.

Larger image: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...ntrain_coc.jpg



Dean has allowed me to scan a bunch of "new" (to me) images from the Chamber's files (most of them were donated to the Oklahoma History Center, but some were retained) and I'll be updating a couple of my "Trains" blog posts within a week or sooner with those images. He also has some nice images of his own.

[dismayed]

If I remember correctly the Santa Fe rail line stopped in what is now downtown. The stop was called "Oklahoma Station." Oklahoma Station eventually became Oklahoma, Indian Territory (IT). Okla, IT eventually became Oklahoma City and of course IT became the state of OK, and the area that is now Capitol Hill was once South Oklahoma, essentially a completely separate city. South Oklahoma and Oklahoma City eventually merged into Oklahoma City.

[solitude]

Great stuff, Doug! I am sure you enjoyed being an attorney, but I seriously think you missed a calling as an historian!

[sgt. pepper]

Now, that would be a cool undertaking of the city ... a reconstruction of the trading post (if any such images exist).

that would be awsome.

[GuyB]

Have you ever seen this historical marker?



It's around NW 10th and Council Road. See the full story at Doug Dawgz Blog: Council Grove

I have seen this marker before its just east of 10th and Council down by the creek just after N Eagle lane I'm not even sure if you can see it from the road.

[Doug Loudenback]

If you aren't looking for it, you would probably drive right by. There are roadside photos in my blog article: Doug Dawgz Blog: Council Grove