Incredible Pizza

[Faith]

Is there only 1 Incredible Pizza in OK?

[In_Tulsa]

No there is an Incredible Pizza in Tulsa. It opened about 2 years ago it was the first in Oklahoma.

[metro]

okcgoddess, I haven't seen a time where it's not busy. I work just down the street and live not to far away so I usually drive by it once or twice a day at least. Sunday the day I went was the least crowded I've ever seen the parking lot and there was still a ton of people there. It's definitely noisy and crowded. I'm sure between the school and day care field trips and birthday parties, the middle of the week stays just as busy as the weekends

[circuitboard]

This is my first post on here.
I just wanted everyone's opinion. I am concerned that on incredible pizza's website, it states there business is operated under "God's Principles". Let me start by saying I am a very spiritual person and believe in God. But my concern is we have a civil rights law against discrimination. If someone does not believe in God, are they going to be denied employment, which in turn would be illegal according to the civil rights act? What do you guys think? I promise I won't post anymore religion post's. I am just curious.

[Midtowner]

This is my first post on here.

Welcome.

I just wanted everyone's opinion. I am concerned that on incredible pizza's website, it states there business is operated under "God's Principles".

Yes it does.

Let me start by saying I am a very spiritual person and believe in God.

We're all very relieved to hear that you are a spiritual person. It warms my heart. Truly.

But my concern is we have a civil rights law against discrimination.

If someone does not believe in God, are they going to be denied employment, which in turn would be illegal according to the civil rights act? What do you guys think? I promise I won't post anymore religion post's. I am just curious.

You're talking about Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits discrimination in the course of hiring which is based upon religion, national origin, race, color, or sex. There's often going to be some difficulty proving discrimination as employers are allowed to discriminate for any reason which is not prohibited by law, e.g., they don't like the cut of your jib.

The real question here is whether an organization which purports to be governed by religious principles also illegally discriminates based upon religion. If it does, that's bad. If it doesn't? Nobel Prize.

My guess is that a company the size of Incredible Pizza has a professional human resources department which makes sure that the company is on the straight and narrow with regards t its hiring practices and policies. My guess is that due to the company's mission statement, they're going to be even more cautious about their hiring practices.

Mostly, religious discrimination is a bad thing unless it causes some sort of undue hardship for the employer. I'm not sure there are many of us who are going to tell you that religious discrimination is a good thing.

Why the concern?

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

You should talk to a few employees of HIS Paint sometime.

[circuitboard]

Midtowner, I feel like you were being sarcastic with me being a spirtual person. But I appriciate your input on my concern.

[Midtowner]

Midtowner, I feel like you were being sarcastic with me being a spirtual person. But I appriciate your input on my concern.

You're perceptive.

To tell you the truth, I really don't see how whether you are 'spiritual' or not is even relevant to your inquiry. Perhaps you feel it's necessary to be spiritual in order to not appear to be some sort of agnostic/atheist when you're criticizing the spirituality of others? I don't really care.

It was just unnecessary to preface your statement with a declaration that you are spiritual.

Now... unless you're a stockholder in Incredible Pizza, which I doubt, why the concern as to whether they might have discriminatory hiring practices? Are you a vigilante justice-bringer for Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Do you make it your business to ferret out and halt any potentially illegal religious discrimination practices in the workplace?

[kmf563]

Maybe they just want a job.

I guess this explains why they don't serve beer.

I'll worry about the sign above the door in a restaurant when it says something like "we spit in food" or "we never wash our hands"

[Midtowner]

Maybe they just want a job.

Or maybe he thinks he has a case against Incredible Pizza for not hiring him due to some sort of religious discrimination.

If that's the case, OP, don't take anything I said to be legal advice. I'm not a lawyer or licensed to practice law. Go to a lawyer, talk to them. I was only generally commenting on the situation.

[kmf563]

Discrimination is even harder to prove than harrassment. First he would have to prove that they knew of his religious beliefs prior to denying employment and show a reasonable amount of evidence stating why they would have absolutely hired him otherwise.

I assume it was just a moment of awareness. There are several establishments that have these kinds of mottos or statements. Hello, Hobby Lobby.

Has anyone ever noticed there is a picture of Jesus above the door at the Deli? Is having a picture the same as making a statement?

[Midtowner]

Private organizations are free to make any sort of religious statement they want to so long as they're not discriminating based upon religion.

[circuitboard]

Wow, this was my first post on okctalk, I have been going to this site for about a year, and found it really enjoyable to see what was the latest developments or topics in Oklahoma City. I never thought, that by me simply asking people's opinion on if it was a good idea, to announce that you manage a company under God's princlples, that I would be personally insulted, becuase I stated I was spirtual. (Which means I belive in a GOD. I am not christian by any means. I only mentioned it, just to make a point, that I am not anti-religious. I only brought the topic up becuase I feel it is crossing the line. Just my opinon. I am not sure if I want to be a member of this site, if I am going to be attacked for making conversation.

[Midtowner]

I never thought, that by me simply asking people's opinion on if it was a good idea, to announce that you manage a company under God's princlples, that I would be personally insulted, becuase I stated I was spirtual. (Which means I belive in a GOD. I am not christian by any means. I only mentioned it, just to make a point, that I am not anti-religious. I only brought the topic up becuase I feel it is crossing the line. Just my opinon. I am not sure if I want to be a member of this site, if I am going to be attacked for making conversation.

I never attacked you.

I just said that I didn't care whether or not you were spiritual and that it makes no difference as to your question either way.

If you want to construe that as a personal attack, feel free to do so. Also, if you think that's a personal attack, this place is probably not a good place for you to be. Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord (or who/whatever) split ya.

[kmf563]

Surely if you've been lurking on this board for about a year you are familiar with Midtowner and the religious topic rants.

Just ignore the insults. We want the questions, we want the opinions, and we want the diversity. Without it, the board would be boring. You just have to remember it's only a messageboard and to not get offended so easily. Learn to ignore certain people, or better yet - learn what pisses them off and start pushing their buttons right back. =)

[Martin]

i only brought the topic up becuase i feel it is crossing the line.

why do you think that a private company's statement that they 'choose to manage [their] business according to god’s principles' is crossing the line? to me, there's quite a bit of difference between this statement and discrimination. please clarify your position.

-M

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

why do you think that a private company's statement that they 'choose to manage [their] business according to god’s principles' is crossing the line? to me, there's quite a bit of difference between this statement and discrimination. please clarify your position.

-M

X2

A good portion of businesses I walk into have a Jesus fish stuck on the counter, on their business card, or you know...Are named "HIS" Paints. That's not Hank Ingle Snodgrass' initials.

Hmmmm...This does have me wondering...Can a church refuse to hire an Atheist?

[kmf563]

X2


Hmmmm...This does have me wondering...Can a church refuse to hire an Atheist?

Why would an atheist wish to work in a church? My guess would be yes though. Just looking at the rules to be hired at LC - 1. You have to be a member of the church. And in order to be a member of the church, you have to a) serve b) join a lifegroup c) tithe
I would expect an atheist to choose to not do those things, therefore he would not be hired.

[Midtowner]

Hmmmm...This does have me wondering...Can a church refuse to hire an Atheist?

I believe churches are an exception to the rule.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Why would an atheist wish to work in a church? My guess would be yes though. Just looking at the rules to be hired at LC - 1. You have to be a member of the church. And in order to be a member of the church, you have to a) serve b) join a lifegroup c) tithe
I would expect an atheist to choose to not do those things, therefore he would not be hired.

The couple of Atheists I know don't harbor any animosity towards Christianity and would be their overtly logical selves and say "hey man, a job is a job, and I need a job".

And Mid...How do they get away with that? Is there an actual exception in law somewhere, or is it just overlooked?

[Midtowner]

And Mid...How do they get away with that? Is there an actual exception in law somewhere, or is it just overlooked?

I'd guess the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment would prohibit that sort of overreaching by Congress. That's not an issue, however, because the terms of Title VII itself specifically outline an exception for churches, religious corporations, religious schools, things of that nature.

I'm no employment law expert, I just googled the subject

[Patrick]

Hobby Lobby is a spiritual corporation, but doesn't discriminate. Don't see the difference here.

[mmonroe]

Oh god... If you think someone personally attacked you, get over it. There is no BS here on OKCtalk, we all share opinions and we only agree to disagree. Thats the point. So get over it, post about anything you want, just don't assume we're all going to be right behind you. I'm sure if someone here was a satanist, they'd be against you being "spiritual".

Lots of people discriminate. One of the companies I work for, you're hired if you're pretty. If you're not.. then we lost the application. Then again, I don't think there is a law against it.

@Patrick, they're mentioning Hobby Lobby as a company who practices a spiritual business, but does not discriminate because they do. That's the point. I don't believe anyone said they do discriminate.

[Midtowner]

Hobby Lobby is a spiritual corporation, but no one can prove that they discriminate. Don't see the difference here.

fixed.

[circuitboard]

Well most of this makes sense, I appreciate the intelligent responses.