what is the Centennial on the Canal?

[soonergal]

I have read in the paper of different parties buying land/property there and the price range is anywhere from $300,000 to upwards of $500,000. The description reads like this: "(person's name) from The Centennial on the Canal LLC, property near the southeast corner of Reno and Santa Fe Ave." I have seen that more than once and was wondering what is at that location...

[FritterGirl]

The Centennial on the Canal is a 5-story condominium complex set on the south side of Reno, just west of the Harkins theatre. Starbucks is in the North end of the Centennial building, and Red Pin Bowling is on its first floor.

[Kerry]

Here is their web site.

The Centennial on the Canal

[soonergal]

thank you both...

[solitude]

That's the price range (if you can believe it) of their condos.

[BG918]

That's the price range (if you can believe it) of their condos.

I still think it's the worst design of the new residential developments downtown though. I walked by last night and noticed three glaring design issues:

1) EFIS exterior on the residential floors in BRICKtown
2) Small windows and the arches above the balconies make no sense-what is their purpose?
3) The building meets the canal well but its relationship to Reno is awful, should've come up closer to the street without those two small parking spaces.

JDM Place = good urban design in Bricktown
The Centennial = overpriced suburban design that doesn't belong in Bricktown

That being said I'm GLAD to see condos in Bricktown, I just wish this project could've been designed better but knowing how Hogan works I expect it. The Cotton Exchange will be much better IMO.

[jbrown84]

The Centennial looks like someone took a classy brick structure, ripped it off at the 2nd floor, and slapped some Orlando timeshares on top that don't match at all.

[lpecan]

Maybe Kerry can shed some light on this, but the centennial really reminds me of a building in downtown Jax. Its downtown, but there's like a strip mall next door with a pizza joint which looks trendy, but is an overglorified Cici's. Hopefully time will prove me wrong.

[Midtowner]

A little under $300/sq.ft.

Who is buying these things???

[betts]

I think there may be a lot of corporate buyers. That's what I heard.

[Midtowner]

Must be. I hope the market for those dries up quick so that regular folks like me can afford one of these things.

[wsucougz]

slapped some Orlando timeshares on top that don't match at all.

Gotta love the porthole windows. Ship's ahoy, matey!

[solitude]

I think there may be a lot of corporate buyers. That's what I heard.

As in buying for corporate use? To have a place for guests to stay?

If that's the case, it does nothing for downtown life. They are occupied by different people from out of town for weeks at a time and add nothing to the street life, neighborhood and what we're striving for.

[metro]

FYI, this was 100% sold out. Owners are finally starting to move in. This stop was a part of our Downtown Living Tour today although no model unit was available today since it's 100% owner occupied and it's move-in day finally.

[solitude]

FYI, this was 100% sold out. Owners are finally starting to move in. This stop was a part of our Downtown Living Tour today although no model unit was available today since it's 100% owner occupied and it's move-in day finally.

Hi Metro....Thanks for helping out downtown today. Which property are you talking about in your post?

[metro]

The Centennial (the one the post is on). I know at least 2 owners that live in the Centennial. I also know a few corporations bought a few units in here as well for execs, etc. I'm not sure the ratio, but I know some are full time owner occupied while the other are corporate. Either way, I think it's fine, corporate execs are usually from out of town and have serious money, they usually don't by groceries and cook in, so they end up going out to eat for every meal, and often are looking to shop/entertain themselves, so chances are, they are spending MORE money locally, not less as someone above had said. They also add to street life by walking to these venues, since they probably don't have their car in town.

[solitude]

The Centennial (the one the post is on). I know at least 2 owners that live in the Centennial. I also know a few corporations bought a few units in here as well for execs, etc. I'm not sure the ratio, but I know some are full time owner occupied while the other are corporate. Either way, I think it's fine, corporate execs are usually from out of town and have serious money, they usually don't by groceries and cook in, so they end up going out to eat for every meal, and often are looking to shop/entertain themselves, so chances are, they are spending MORE money locally, not less as someone above had said. They also add to street life by walking to these venues, since they probably don't have their car in town.

Sorry about asking what property. There seems to be a lot of discussion about different places in a lot of different threasds and I just wasn't paying attention.

I think we need to build neighborhoods downtown. To have so few availabilities for housing and then see a fair percentage bought up for luxury corporate suite use (which is probably a big part of driving the prices higher - who else can afford them?) is not what most of us have in mind when we think about urban living and a new thriving downtown life.

[metro]

As you know, we've discussed this topic, it's a chicken and egg dilemma. The market has been so underserved, the developers want the cash cow, which is the upper end as we're seeing, we'll see more affordable options (there are already a limited few for sale and rent) continue as we gain critical mass downtown. Keep in mind we had almost nothing just a few short years ago and for decades past. Just getting bodies downtown will be a huge turning point and maintain the momentum needed for the average joe to be able to afford anything. The Maywood Lofts are well under construction and start at about $115K.

[solitude]

Keep in mind we had almost nothing just a few short years ago and for decades past. Just getting bodies downtown will be a huge turning point and maintain the momentum needed for the average joe to be able to afford anything. The Maywood Lofts are well under construction and start at about $115K.

I hear what you're saying. I understand the arguments. But the point is, for the vast number of people who might like to live downtown it's the same as there being nothing downtown. Making it a 'Nichols Hills South' (as in just another enclave of wealth), you won't have the diversity that makes an urban area thrive. There's an argument to be made the other way too - and that's building affordable living to drive as many people (rooftops) downtown and make the center city busy and alive which, in turn, makes the classier and more luxurious places even more valuable. Building what amounts to one big gated community for living downtown is not the answer, imo. The Maywood Lofts development sounds like a good start in the other direction - for condos anyway.

[Midtowner]

The Maywood Lofts are still around $225/sq.ft. They may have "started" at $115K, but now, the cheapest is around 750 sq.ft. and is around $175K.

I'd be nervous to get into one of those. I don't think these sorts of prices can be sustained.

[BG918]

I know it's several years away but once I-40 is relocated and the boulevard completed through downtown (probably 2014) we will start to see a boom in housing on the south end of downtown and a lot of it will be affordable. In the mean time hopefully more projects like Legacy and Maywood Park will spring up, maybe even some in less "desirable" parts of downtown like Film Row on Sheridan or points further west. Also look for more Banta historical conversions in and around Midtown which could have some more affordable apts. And then really the area north of Midtown along Robinson east of Heritage Hills has some older apt. buildings and townhomes. I have a friend that lives there and she loves it because it's more of a neighborhood but still very close to downtown.

[CCOKC]

The one thing the Centennial did was to set the comps for the downtown area. When we toured Block 42 a couple of weeks ago we asked if people were having problems getting loans on these properties and we were told by the manager that a lot of people had paid cash for their units at the Centennial. I think as long as you see people paying these prices we won't see the prices go down anytime soon.

[solitude]

The one thing the Centennial did was to set the comps for the downtown area. When we toured Block 42 a couple of weeks ago we asked if people were having problems getting loans on these properties and we were told by the manager that a lot of people had paid cash for their units at the Centennial. I think as long as you see people paying these prices we won't see the prices go down anytime soon.

Which just underlines my point. Downtown housing is becoming 'Nichols Hills South'. There are some progressive cities in this country that approve developments with ratio pricing (is that the right terminology? That doesn't sound right) in order to encourage -at least - semi-affordable housing in the urban core. Our "return to downtown" has quickly become an of, by and for the wealthy project with a wink and and a nod; and not so much as a raised eyebrow from OCURA. It's time they approve projects based not solely on developer's interests, but in the interest of the people by insisting on affordability to encourage a revitalization of downtown life by people of all means - and not just approve what amounts to gated communities in the form of luxurious condominiums at outrageous pricing.

Some would say this is typical of Oklahoma City with its history of mutual back scratching by the downtown crowd - and some things never change. But, did I say that? Why shouldn't we have realized from the get-go that this would quickly become a downtown populated by the city elite?

This city....no, this country....can look so backward when compared to European cities and urban life. Here - it's all about the dollar. Of course! It's just Suburbia In The Core! This way the Oklahoma City monied interests can "play city." How silly to have even thought it could have been otherwise.

"we asked if people were having problems getting loans on these properties and we were told by the manager that a lot of people had paid cash for their units at the Centennial"

Yep. Why am I even surprised? It makes me wonder why I invest so much of my life hoping Oklahoma City will one day be what other cities already are! The same rightwing bunch still hold the cards in this town, just as they always have - only the names have changed.

EDIT: (I posted this in another thread with the same basic tirade.) I came back to remind everyone who thinks I'm a big lefty or whatever to consider who paid for the revitalization of downtown Oklahoma City. Who made it even possible for developers to have new valuable tracts of land to play with? Don't forget: WE DID. MAPS. MAPS. MAPS.....................

[BG918]

OKC isn't alone. I know for a fact Austin and Denver (I have lived in both cities) are having the same problem, and ordinary folks like us who want to live downtown can't because of high prices. It will never be cheap to live downtown but the city CAN step in and regulate things. I know in Denver they require downtown developers to include a certain percentage of units dedicated to affordable housing, basically units where the developer will lose money but because profit margins are so high on the other units it doesn't make that much of an impact. That would be a good place to start for OKC. Office-to-apt. conversions like Park Harvey and apts. like Legacy are still affordable, we just need more of them!

[flintysooner]

I don't understand what you are wanting solitude.

It costs a tremendous amount of money to develop these areas; the risk is enormous; and, the process is terribly complex and lengthy. There are many different constituencies that have to be included and satisfied, even if not always pleased. Really it is a wonder to me that some of these developments have happened at all given the nature and size of the obstacles.

New homes in suburban areas are in the $130 plus per square foot range now and that's on lots carved from land purchased years before and being built with relatively low priced materials.

There is significant profit potential in development but that potential is just that and many people think it is not sufficiently great to justify the risk.

Subsidies, which I gather is what you want, can come in various forms. But all such subsidies come with strings. Even the government eventually has to live in the real world.