Question for the fellas

[PennyQuilts]

<<I won't be controlled and I don't want to control her. If everyone at work is going out for a drink after work and I want to go, I'm going to call and tell her where I'm going, not ask if I can go!!! If she wants to come along, GREAT, meet me there. But she's not going to tell me I can't go. If I have even the slightest feeling that she wants to be controlling, I'm gone.>>

I can't even relate to this attitude. If someone has that sort of attitude towards the woman, why be there in the first place? I can't imagine being so hostile to my mate. I'd say you'd be better off gone - you aren't in a good situation to begin with.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Dustbowl's Excellent Adventure:

Married twice, one my fault the other hers. Single for five years now. I don't LOOK for women to date and I don't have a problem getting dates. They just sort of happen. I've dated the "upper crust", the working girl, the professional, the artist, the psycho, the mother, the man hater and even a lesbian. She thought I was cute. Let's not go there.

I don't like to make judgments and I try to realize that we are all fooked up one way or the other. Compatibility is the most important thing for me. I hate conflict and I won't put up with head games for very long. If you like me fine, if you don't that's fine too, just tell me.

Love yourself first before you try to find a mate or accept a mate.

I have a friend who says all women fall into one or more of these categories:
1. I want a baby.
2 I want money.
3. I want security.
4 I want to control you.

I'm not saying he is right. Tough area when it comes to finding what fits and what doesn't.

Oh yeah, and if either of you own a business or have more than $25,000 in assets the word is PRENUP, PRENUP, PRENUP. Kids excluded of course. Pay your damn child support and stay involved with your children's lives. You didn't divorce the kids moron.

Really?

<<I won't be controlled and I don't want to control her. If everyone at work is going out for a drink after work and I want to go, I'm going to call and tell her where I'm going, not ask if I can go!!! If she wants to come along, GREAT, meet me there. But she's not going to tell me I can't go. If I have even the slightest feeling that she wants to be controlling, I'm gone.>>

I can't even relate to this attitude. If someone has that sort of attitude towards the woman, why be there in the first place? I can't imagine being so hostile to my mate. I'd say you'd be better off gone - you aren't in a good situation to begin with.

It's got nothing to do with an attitude towards the woman, it's a mutual respect thing. Respect that in addition to being a part of our little team of two...I'm also still an individual that doesn't need to ask permission to deviate from home-work-sleep-home-work-sleep-home-home-home-home as long as it's not a frequent habit and it's not inconveniencing the family. Just like she shouldn't need to "ask" for permission to buy a new purse.

[Dustbowl]

[QUOTE=Oh GAWD the Smell!;131843]Really?




Really, at least in a relationship. As for guys, bring it on!!! No really, It's very difficult to communicate on these message boards. I do have a different personality, but I do enjoy my life and I'm probably not much different than anybody else here. I've been told I'm sort of a mix between George Carlin, Ward Cleaver and Ozzy Osborne. I is what I is.

Cheers, Summer is coming and maybe we can all meet-up sometime. I promise I will behave.

[PennyQuilts]

<<It's got nothing to do with an attitude towards the woman, it's a mutual respect thing. Respect that in addition to being a part of our little team of two...I'm also still an individual that doesn't need to ask permission to deviate from home-work-sleep-home-work-sleep-home-home-home-home as long as it's not a frequent habit and it's not inconveniencing the family. Just like she shouldn't need to "ask" for permission to buy a new purse.>>

Well, I wasn't talking about a generic attitude towards women. I meant THAT woman. To be so hostile towards a mate that you are worried about them controlling you sounds like a ghastly way to live. Find a woman who doesn't care because if she DOES and you are more worried about your freedom than her peace of mind is a match made in hell.

Comparing that to buying is purse is just peculiar. A purse is about a thing, stuff, money. A night out without her permission is about how you want to live your life, your lifestyle, who you want to spend it with and the message is clear - she isn't your first priority and you aren't too worried about whether she will be waiting when you decide to pull into the driveway.

If that is the way you feel, she isn't the woman for you. A lot of the guys have talked about meeting the right one. I am willing to bet that those who think they have don't share the attitude you are describing. Perhaps I'm wrong. If my man had that attitude, it wouldn't be about controlling him - it would just be so obvious that I wasn't that important to him.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Comparing that to buying is purse is just peculiar. A purse is about a thing, stuff, money. A night out without her permission is about how you want to live your life, your lifestyle, who you want to spend it with and the message is clear - she isn't your first priority and you aren't too worried about whether she will be waiting when you decide to pull into the driveway.

Yeah, the purse analogy was a bad one.

But your argument of a night out after work equaling a way of life, a lifestyle, is asinine. Since when does a night out after work equal a whole lifestyle? That's hardly a lifestyle and it's hardly selfish. More like a way of schmoozing with the boss over a cold one for a better raise to better support my family...That might happen once every 3 months.

As for the priority thing...Another crazy generalization. I mean really. Every relationship has it's own dynamic, so please don't tell me where my priorities are. If my woman called me and said "I'm going to go to Funplace McGee's with my friend and I'll be home around 11"...As long as we had no previous plans, I'd say "okay, see you then, HAVE FUN!" and go on about my day. See, she told me what she was going to do. Didn't ask. Told. And since I know she's not the "run amok until the cows come home" type (I don't make a habit of forming relationships with those), I'm fine with it. It's not a demand or hardcore statement of fact. There's no hostility. It's a discussion about plans for the evening between two people that know and respect one another.

Waiting for me in the driveway indeed. Who wants that? That's needy and creepy. She's got her own brain, job, friends, and schedule. And they're not always going to jive with mine. We'll work it out like adults without other people telling us about how we should prioritize each other.

[Dustbowl]

Yeah, the purse analogy was a bad one.

But your argument of a night out after work equaling a way of life, a lifestyle, is asinine. Since when does a night out after work equal a whole lifestyle? That's hardly a lifestyle and it's hardly selfish. More like a way of schmoozing with the boss over a cold one for a better raise to better support my family...That might happen once every 3 months.

As for the priority thing...Another crazy generalization. I mean really. Every relationship has it's own dynamic, so please don't tell me where my priorities are. If my woman called me and said "I'm going to go to Funplace McGee's with my friend and I'll be home around 11"...As long as we had no previous plans, I'd say "okay, see you then, HAVE FUN!" and go on about my day. See, she told me what she was going to do. Didn't ask. Told. And since I know she's not the "run amok until the cows come home" type (I don't make a habit of forming relationships with those), I'm fine with it. It's not a demand or hardcore statement of fact. There's no hostility. It's a discussion about plans for the evening between two people that know and respect one another.

Waiting for me in the driveway indeed. Who wants that? That's needy and creepy. She's got her own brain, job, friends, and schedule. And they're not always going to jive with mine. We'll work it out like adults without other people telling us about how we should prioritize each other.

I think my friend's list might have some merit. See #4 above.

[PennyQuilts]

My suggestion, seriously, is that you don't try to equate "buying a purse" with your god given right, god dammit, to party with your friends and if she doesn't like it, she can take a hike because you WON'T be "controlled."

Just a suggestion, of course.

[kmf563]

OH how i wish i hadn't read this thread. sigh.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

My suggestion, seriously, is that you don't try to equate "buying a purse" with your god given right, god dammit, to party with your friends and if she doesn't like it, she can take a hike because you WON'T be "controlled."

Just a suggestion, of course.

And I admitted that the purse analogy was a bad one. Want me to do it again? Okay. The purse analogy was a bad one.

And you're right. It's not my god given right to to "party". But it's not her god given right to stop me from doing something without her when it doesn't affect her in the slightest. If there is a demand for me to be present at all times without any reason other than simply because we're together...Then she's got co-dependency issues.

Seriously...I'm not a jerk to women. Never have been. The only family I have is a mother and two sisters. That's it. Nobody else. They wouldn't have it and would disembowel me if I treated ANY woman like crap.

[PennyQuilts]

My point, all along, has been that if this is an issue with a couple, it isn't a good match. People who are tuned in to each other wouldn't even "go there" on this issue. That is all I'm saying.

[brenna]

Love yourself first before you try to find a mate or accept a mate.

If only more people would truly live by this statement, the complex world of dating and relationships would be more fulfilling for all.

[PennyQuilts]

Not being sarcastic - I am serious - I read "love yourself" all the time and have no idea what that means. And I am female so you'd think it would be obvious! Is it a feeling? Is it action? I know with a lot of my dysfunctional parents that they "love" their children (meaning they "feel" love) but they don't do much in terms of action that you'd expect from a parent who loved their child. I am always telling them that love is more than just a feeling. So what is meant by "love yourself?" And if you say it means both (action and feeling), ok, I expected that, but I am still at a loss as to what that means.

Does that mean I am supposed to feel good about myself even if I am a jerk? What does that fix? Does it mean that I should treat myself to something special? Even with children that should be used sparingly and I wouldn't want them to think that I love them because I give them stuff.

Does it mean that I go easy on myself when I am having a bad day? Take a bubble bath or get a pedicure when I am stressed? Be selfish even when it negatively affects others?

What does it mean? And how does that make anything better? I hear/read that all the time and usually just ignore it. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense (to me).

I'm confused.

[MikeLucky]

Not being sarcastic - I am serious - I read "love yourself" all the time and have no idea what that means. And I am female so you'd think it would be obvious! Is it a feeling? Is it action? I know with a lot of my dysfunctional parents that they "love" their children (meaning they "feel" love) but they don't do much in terms of action that you'd expect from a parent who loved their child. I am always telling them that love is more than just a feeling. So what is meant by "love yourself?" And if you say it means both (action and feeling), ok, I expected that, but I am still at a loss as to what that means.

Does that mean I am supposed to feel good about myself even if I am a jerk? What does that fix? Does it mean that I should treat myself to something special? Even with children that should be used sparingly and I wouldn't want them to think that I love them because I give them stuff.

Does it mean that I go easy on myself when I am having a bad day? Take a bubble bath or get a pedicure when I am stressed? Be selfish even when it negatively affects others?

What does it mean? And how does that make anything better? I hear/read that all the time and usually just ignore it. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense (to me).

I'm confused.

I think the general idea is that you have to be able to take care of yourself and have a self-awareness about your own strengths and weaknesses before you can begin to share a life with someone else..... it certainly increases the chances of a successful relationship.....

That's the way I take it, and after some good 'ole life experiences, I think it's true.....

[PennyQuilts]

I think the general idea is that you have to be able to take care of yourself and have a self-awareness about your own strengths and weaknesses before you can begin to share a life with someone else..... it certainly increases the chances of a successful relationship.....

That's the way I take it, and after some good 'ole life experiences, I think it's true.....

See, to me THAT makes sense as what contributes to being a happy, competent person and a good partner - but I am still not sure how the statement "love yourself" would be interpreted as that, at least based on the words of the statement.

[windowphobe]

Somebody once told me to go love myself.

Or, um, something like that.

[Dustbowl]

Not being sarcastic - I am serious - I read "love yourself" all the time and have no idea what that means. And I am female so you'd think it would be obvious! Is it a feeling? Is it action? I know with a lot of my dysfunctional parents that they "love" their children (meaning they "feel" love) but they don't do much in terms of action that you'd expect from a parent who loved their child. I am always telling them that love is more than just a feeling. So what is meant by "love yourself?" And if you say it means both (action and feeling), ok, I expected that, but I am still at a loss as to what that means.

Does that mean I am supposed to feel good about myself even if I am a jerk? What does that fix? Does it mean that I should treat myself to something special? Even with children that should be used sparingly and I wouldn't want them to think that I love them because I give them stuff.

Does it mean that I go easy on myself when I am having a bad day? Take a bubble bath or get a pedicure when I am stressed? Be selfish even when it negatively affects others?

What does it mean? And how does that make anything better? I hear/read that all the time and usually just ignore it. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense (to me).

I'm confused.

To me, based on my experiences, it means to know and understand yourself first before trying to seriously connect with a mate/partner. I know that there were times when I was not happy with myself and my relationships were bad as a result. It's not a me first attitude. It's accepting and understanding that I have faults and great aspects as a person and I accept them. I try to change the faults, but I don't expect another person to be responsible for me changing.

It was a real revelation to me when I could allow myself to accept myself as an independent entity without the need for approval to be happy. Once this happened, I was much more understanding of others and my relationships improved. I don't expect everyone to like me and I accept that. I know that my personality is different and many people like it and some hate it. I don't try to change the ones that hate it.

I think many people settle for a bad relationship and would probably be better off being a free agent and work on 'Loving" themselves first. I know these things are complicated. I have also found that the "opposites attract" notion has been true in my experience. My current relationship would fail every Oprah, Dr. Phil, Joel Olsteen test in the world, but it is one of the richest relationships I have ever had. Maybe it comes with age, I'm not real sure.

[Karried]

Love yourself - I think it means meeting most of your own needs and not be too dependent on your partner to have all the responsibility for your happiness. Because it's a lifetime of disappointment to depend on someone else to know and meet all of your needs unless he is a mind reader or you give really good hints and cues!

I've been married 20 years this year.. ( I know, I can't believe I'm that old either - I refuse to accept it!) But I love my husband now more than ever and we've had a great life together.. we've had our ups and downs... who hasn't? But, he is by far, my very best friend who knows me and accepts all my flaws and imperfections and still loves me anyway. I don't think I could have picked a better person to do this thing called 'life' together.. and we met when we were pretty young.

In life and marriage, things change and you have to adapt and go with the flow.. when we first met, I worked full time, 8 years later, I stopped working to stay home and raise my babies, after they were a little older, I went back to work off and on part time ... for a few years.. now the kids are 10 & 15 and I still can't go back to work full time because now I really want to be with them after school and involved in their lives because I know I'll only have them for another few years.. oh gawd..boo,hoo!!!! I'm warning all of you in advance, I will be a complete and total mess when that happens.

But, anyway, pretty soon, I'll probably have to find more to do than help run our company to keep me busy. I get bored so easily!

So, my point is, to the guys looking for a ' label' maybe a professional wife or homemaker, you can't marry someone based on the fact that she will always be income producing or always a stay at home mom.. you have to adapt to the situation at hand and be atttracted to and fall in love with the person and personality...

[okcnative]

This is truly and interesting discussion. Lots of good thoughts and lots of honesty.

My personal thought on actually somewhat works a little with Bailjumper's thought about "Until I met my wife I hadn't dated anyone that gave me that sick feeling if I thought about them not being in my life." And then he went on to say, "When I met a woman that liked me but obviously didn't 'need' me, I was hooked." BailJumper... THAT'S IT!

Dustbowl said:
I have a friend who says all women fall into one or more of these categories:
1. I want a baby.
2 I want money.
3. I want security.
4 I want to control you.

And he explained he entire "love yourself thing."

Maybe one works for one person and another works for the next person. Who knows why. Yes, you need to be whole as a person and love yourself. If you are not whole, you will be seeing to "take" from the other person. But when you are complete, love yourself and you still feel sick at the thought of not having the other person in your life, it is probably because your are sick at the thought of missing the best match of your life...someone who doesn't take from you, but who adds to your completeness...as you do to their life.

The one thing I know is that until you are secure and complete in yourself...to the point you don't "need" someone to complete your life, you are not ready to commit seriously and "find a mate."

Relationships are difficult. They are sometimes a struggle, even in the best of circumstances. But if you are not giving 100%, along with your mate giving 100%, it can't be a balanced relationship.

If you choose someone to commit to because they fulfill a need, then you are not ready. It is when you are completely secure in yourself, (a.k.a. "love yourself,) when you need no one to complete you or provide financially for you or to "validate" you, that you are ready for a relationship. When two people such as this come together, (just doing the math here.... 100% + 100% = an abundance) they keep their self worth, "need" nothing to complete themselves from the other, and then the relationship can be off the chart!

Why don't men commit? Maybe they are not there yet, or the women they date are not there yet. Why don't women commit? Same reason. And when both people are secure, they are usually looking for that one person, mind-heart-and soul, who adds to their life, and whose life whom they can add to, so it is not a burden, or uneven, or anything less than that 200% And when both people are secure in that, it doesn't matter that they have their own lives within their couple's life. It all fits, like a key in a lock.

Just and opinion. But one that has taken years to realize and live by.

[OKCMallen]

Read a great article recently about "Social Capital" and I thought it completely nailed 95&#37; of the average realtionhips out there.

[rag451]

For my two cents:

What are the reasons why we fellas don't commit?
1. Youth (Why here, why now, why her?)
2. Fear
3. Selfishness (What does she do for me?)
4. Insecurity

We're still looking elsewhere?
What about for those who aren't looking?

Don't feel it's reciprocated?
Fear of rejection? I feel that...

She's still shopping around/looking?
Situation I'm in is that a girl found me, we became friends, I fell in love, and from the moment I told her I had "feelings" for her, she began closing herself off. This girl doesn't look like she's shopping, more like she's waiting for someone better. I'm no prize, believe me, but for this girl and for myself, I wonder if we will ever find someone better.

Where do we get our security?
I suggest ADT, maybe Broadview.

[PennyQuilts]

It might not be that she is looking for "better." I bet she is looking for "Mr. Right." Speaking as a female, if I am not on board, completely, when a man wears his heart on his sleeve and wants more, it is the kiss of death. It is probably that way for many men, too. But not everyone is like that.

[Uncle Slayton]

I was married for 20 years, then chased around the country to different women and hotels...lived with someone, etc.

The chasing around thing was best. There's the constant anticipation of someone new, everyone knows what they're in it for and everyone goes home when they're done.

Shallow, maybe, but compared to the mind-numbing boredom of long term marriage, shallow is fine.

[kevinpate]

Dang, if long term marriage is supposed to be mind numbing boring,
I must be doing something wrong.

[PennyQuilts]

Dang, if long term marriage is supposed to be mind numbing boring,
I must be doing something wrong.

Bless you, Kevin!

[Jethrol]

Holy 2 year old thread resurrection Batman.

I fall into the over 40 and never been married crowd. Funny thing is, my whole life I've always said I want to get married and have kids. Why am I still single? Haha it's complicated.

I'm not at all afraid of commitment but when I was younger I was really stupid. I chased off some really great women. Now that I'm ready to get married, I'm not finding compatible women. Of course, I haven't been looking too hard just going with the flow.