Devon Plans Downtown Skyscraper

[Steve]

Hey Metro, be nice to Tim now. His Internet time is limited. He's got two youngster and a great coffee shop to run with his wife!

-Steve

[metro]

I wasn't mean, all I said is that if he or others read the internet a little more, than perhaps they would have heard some of the inside info on OKCTalk. The article made him sound as if he was completely shocked this was possible.

[metro]

Here's a cool pic of the new NY Times building:

[Pete]

BTW, Steve tried to arrange a phone interview with me yesterday so he could add comments about OKCTalk and the general reaction to the Devon announcement, but we couldn't connect before his deadline.

[jbrown84]

The way he talks about natural light, I'm sure it will be a lot of clear glass like in that NY Times building.

[metro]

exactly why I posted it jbrown, and the possibility that this building sounds like it's going to be more wide and less in depth, very similar to the NY Times.

[Patrick]

I know this has already been said, but "AWESOME NEWS!" Continue the Renaissance!

[Doug Loudenback]

exactly why I posted it jbrown, and the possibility that this building sounds like it's going to be more wide and less in depth, very similar to the NY Times.

Although this is just a guesstimate, to have 27,000 feet per floor it has to have both depth AND width ... here's what I came up with, again, just as a guess ... I did it in units of 10 feet so that's why the numbers are slightly off ...



By the way ... congratulations are in order! My daughter just delivered her baby Sophia on the day that the interim Sonics agreement was submitted to and approved by the city! Sophia!

[brian]

I agree with the 15' recommendation. By the time you fit all the structure in and a few feet for HVAC, this is about right for a decent ceiling height. Telecom will really not have anything to do with the ceiling height. Fitting their stuff in is easy.

You will be hard pressed to have "clear glass" and have any chance of getting LEED certified IMO. There will have to be natural lighting, and insulated low-e tinted glazing to get significant energy conservation points.

The water conservation remarks concern me. Sounds like alot of waterless urinals. I feel sorry for the maintenance and custodial staff.

[Pete]

In terms of square footage, remember that in tall buildings a good part of the central core is taken by elevator shafts, stairwells and structural elements.

When Devon says 1 million square feet, I'm sure they mean usable space for their employees. To get a building that averages more than 20,000 rentable square feet per floor, you are talking about a thick structure, one way or another.

I just can't see how this building is going to end up being much less than 50 floors.


And congratulations to Doug and his daughter!

[HOT ROD]

I recently read somewhere that Tulsa's total downtown office space was on the order of 9.5 million square feet. I was surprised at how much greater that was than in Oklahoma City.

that's leasible space. Im sure OKC has more owner occupied towers downtown than Tulsa does, for instance KMG is not included in OKC's total because it is owner occupies (Devon wont be included either). One look at the two downtowns and you realize that OKC's is actually bigger and much more dense (Tulsa's is taller overall).

Therefore this lowers downtown OKC to about 6m square feet. I do hope that eventually soon downtown OKC can get above the 10m square feet (leasible) mark; that is sort of a magic sign of a major city's downtown. And it doesn't have to all be in the CBD

- since downtown OKC has many districts (CBD, AAlley, Arts D, Bricktown, C2S, DDeuce, Flatiron, Triangle, WestTown, Film Row - all of these can and should have some office space [though only the CBD and perhaps C2S should have the tallest and most iconic presence].

By the way, congratulations to Oklahoma City (from Seattle)!!!

A new arena, a new major league team (on the way), a new tallest skyscraper! A complete downtown experience on the way.

CONTINUE THE RENAISSANCE!!!

[Pete]

I just noticed this in Steve Lackmeyer's blog, where he was discussing Devon Tower and other big movements in downtown office space:

And when I last spoke to Bill Cameron, CEO of American Fidelity, he was surveying architectural students’ ideas and plans for Core to Shore.

Perhaps American Fidelity can kick of Core to Shore in earnest, occupying (or building/owning) the twin towers shown just south of the Myriad Gardens and north of the proposed Central Park.

That would bring another 1,000+ employees to the CBD.

[OKCisOK4me]

I just noticed this in Steve Lackmeyer's blog, where he was discussing Devon Tower and other big movements in downtown office space:



Perhaps American Fidelity can kick of Core to Shore in earnest, occupying (or building/owning) the twin towers shown just south of the Myriad Gardens and north of the proposed Central Park.

That would bring another 1,000+ employees to the CBD.

I noticed that the other night when I read it too. I thought those two towers (if actually built) would be meant for retail (street level) and then residential. I thought it'd be pretty sweet if Sir Cameron were looking at a future corporate site.

[David Pollard]

WOW! I have been waiting for this announcement for about 33 years! I remember when I was a teenager during the last stages of demolition of the "old" downtown, (I witnessed the implosion of the Hotel Oklahoma) and thinking even then: "A new tallest skyscraper should be right around the corner". One oil bust later and after permanently leaving the city for Europe in 1985 I still am really proud that OKC is moving forward with this new tower. It will always be the hometown, and the developments now are... well exciting!!

As far as height and style are concerned, I really admire the studies that others on this blog are doing regarding height possibilites. Whatever is built, I believe it will be "of this time", meaning lots of glass and higher floor to ceiling ratios. I DO hope, as promised that it will be "Iconic". For me that does not necessarily mean a building with a spire, although one that also respects the general vernacular of OKC would also be good. Height-wise I believe that around 700 feet would be great. That would be iconic in its own right, even without a spire.

Congratulations OKC. You have LONG deserved this and the only way is up from now on!

[roboticbrad]

Either that, or if Tulsa leaders don't get their act together, some of these companies might consider downtown OKC as a relocation option.

I don't think you can blame the city leaders. You would have to blame the voters.

[okcitian]

This is really great! It should be a really neat skyscarper. I was drving in downtown today and tried to envision what the tower will look like. I hope its a building with plenty of glass and a skylight on the tower to make it shine brightly at night. Just imagine what the tower will look at street level.

[David Pollard]

My own hope is that Devon is able to engage a 1st class architect like SOM. Any news about this?

[soonerfever]

I have been looking into the scenario of “Devon Tower” taking BOK/Williams Towers status as the states tallest. We all know that the chances of “Devon Tower” being OKC tallest are really high, but not much is said about being the states tallest. BOK/Williams Tower has a pretty unique title. From Dallas (south) to Minneapolis (north) to Denver (west) and to Indianapolis (east) it is the tallest building. However if you look at OKC’s five tallest buildings, there is only 107ft that separate them. If Devon wanted to take BOK/Williams status they would have to reach higher than 667ft. That’s 167ft taller than the Chase Tower. I know the chances are slim to none but do we really want this to happen? Would it stick out like a sore thumb? I personally think it would be nice to have a signature tower. for this part of the country, located in OKC. What do you guys think?

[Saberman]

Well, someone has to be the first.


Something like the Trans America Tower in San Francisco would look great.

[HOT ROD]

Sooner, I think Chicago has 60 skyscrapers taller than Tulsa's BOK. So I think you need to exclude the 2nd city from that range you gave Tulsa credit for.. But I digress.

170 feet taller than Chase is not that much taller. especially given the elevation differences that might exist (I think the galleria site is a few feet lower than the elevation Chase is on. Basically, take the Mid America (Devon current) tower and add it to chase - and voila, you get a 750 foot tower, roughly; not too much taller/outofplace than the existing skyline if done right (as in not too massive at the top).

Take Tulsa for example. BOK is 667 feet whereas the next tallest is what 530 feet. Yet from most angles, the two dont look too far off.

Oklahoma City has a much more dense skyline than Tulsa so I suspect the tower to fit in as long as it's not too much taller than 750 feet. And certainly such a skyscraper is deserved by OKC and would give it the title to the tallest building in the Great Plains region: east of Denver, West and South of Chicago, North of Dallas -

As it should be (since OKC is the largest city proper population in that same said region, 3rd largest metro)!

In fact, a 750 foot tower might be taller than Denver's Republic Tower, which would totally be a coup for OKC!

I say/hope 750 is the mark!

(assuming a SFR of 16, that would be a 47 storey tower and would definitely accomodate 1.3m sq feet in 26.7k sq ft per floor assuming a box (1m sq feet gives us 21.4k sq ft). SFR of 15 gives a 50 storey tower, 1.3m sq feet translates into 26k floorplates/1m sq feet = 20k floorplates)

[soonerfever]

Sooner, I think Chicago has 60 skyscrapers taller than Tulsa's BOK. So I think you need to exclude the 2nd city from that range you gave Tulsa credit for..

Well Chicago is a no brainer. I was trying to keep the lines straight as possible and the cities closer (skyline wise). Technically Chicago is closer from Tulsa going north, my bad.

I am in no way saying Devon shouldn't do this. In fact I think they should. OKC wants to be a top class city and they should have the skyline to prove it. However I wouldn't want to see what is happening in Dubai, where the tallest building is 1,000ft taller than the next closest building. I know apples and oranges and in two years Dubai will have closed that gap. Your are right about 150ft not being that big of a deal. It might actually serparate it from the pack.

[jbrown84]

BOK/Williams Tower has a pretty unique title. From Dallas (south) to Minneapolis (north) to Denver (west) and to Indianapolis (east) it is the tallest building.

Taller than anything in KC or St. Louis?

[soonerfever]

Taller than anything in KC or St. Louis?

Yes. BOK is taller than anything in both cities.

[metro]

How's this for iconic? These are all architecturally feasible according to an architectural competition site where I got these from.

[jbrown84]

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