New problems for OKC's National preception

[bdub02]

News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | EXCLUSIVE: Lawmaker's anti-gay comments spark debate

This Oklahoma lawmaker says the "gay problem" is the #1 problem facing this country and that gay people are worse than Islamic terrorists such as those who hijacked planes on 9/11. She says America will not last more than a few more decades if something isn't done about the "gay problem." What is shocking is if you read the responses you will find many, if not a majority of Oklahomans (who bothered to post) agree with her stance. Some of the posters are even celebrating AIDS and suggesting all gays be but to death. Whether you believe homosexuality is a sin or not is irrelevant here; this kind of hate towards a group of HUMAN BEINGS from an elected official is way over the line.

As long as this is the kind of image OKC presents to the rest of the nation, the city will never be viewed as anything other than a backwards redneck city in the Bible Belt. I was under the assumption that OKC was really making progress, but this ordeal proves otherwise. This almost makes me ashamed to be from OKC. Not only does it give OKC a bad name but it re-enforces the hatemongering Christian stereotype.

[venture]

Well the good part is that most Christians are not these hatemongering types that this politician represents. Honestly, these views will probably be around for a couple more decades - or so. Heck there are still those white rednecks in rural Oklahoma that will say a few choice words about people with a different color of skin. It's all about how you are raised and the environment you choose to be part of. As each generation finally dies off (that does sound kinda morbid) things will get better. Unfortunately it'll probably be the 22nd or 23rd centuries before humanity gets more enlightend to look beyond a person's skin color, race, nationality, orientation, etc.

Now if they can find a way to cure the curse of aging and extend our lives a couple hundred years, I would love to see that era.

[soonerguru]

Someone needs to run against that f_wit. Her district has a lot of black, latino and working class. Looks like a great Dem pickup to me. Kern seems to represent what's left of the Repub Party today. Completely philosophically bankrupt. I'm sure the numerous citizens in her house district who are worrying about foreclosures, $4 gas and the coming recession are really focused on the "gay agenda." By the way, she insulted a powerful and affluent group that is motivated enough to mount a campaign against her. I'm one district over or I would consider running against her. It would be the easiest campaign this cycle.

[kevinpate]

Perhaps not so easy soonerguru. The district also has a fair sized segment of folk who may actually view Kern as a tad moderate, but still acceptable to them.

Her predecessor had no trouble holding that area for a number of years, and he was not exactly a poster child for moderation during his tenure.

I'd venture a guess those who carried her into office are not sitting about slapping their foreheads and wondering how they could have been so wrong on their vote.
You may not agree with her, may even despise her view, but that doesn't mean she is isolated or significantly out of touch with the majority in her district.

[JLCinOKC]

Her actions are disgusting and she should be impeached!

[OU Adonis]

Her actions are disgusting and she should be impeached!

What is her "actions"? Her opinions on a behavior? You can disagree with her, you can think she is an idiot, but to advocate removing free speach isn't the way to go.

If she said she thought all gays should be burned at the stake I could understand, but what she said was she felt that they were a threat to American values. If you insert "Communism" where "Gay" was, would you have a problem with what she said?

"The Communist party agenda is destroying this nation; it's just a fact,” Kern is heard saying on a YouTube audio segment. "I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.”

[kmf563]

grab your torches!!

No, maybe we should have a witch trial! Dunk her. Burn her.

Although I think she is a complete moron, hopefully the world will see that as well. She does not speak for me. Want to shut her up? Don't vote for her. Don't support her. And write letters opposing her outlandish opinions.

[bombermwc]

Well there are always going to be stupid people out there that don't speak intelligently. One would hope that a public official would be smart enough to keep such a militant opinion to herself, but if that's her platform, it's also hard to tell her not to say it. I don't agree with her in any shape/way/form, but we can't tell her to shut up. As someone else said, that's part of the free speech thing. HOWEVER, a public official speaking like that has influence to make other people think that it may be the overwhelming opion of the state...simply because it's an elected official. Just because they were voted to an office, doesnt make them smarter or their opinion matter more...it just means more people hear it....like actors that think they have some magical importance in politics because they are popular.

So there will be idiots that think she really does speak for us all, but hopefully there are people that see we aren't all like that. And I would agree, write her letters and tell her how you disagree with her and are unhappy with her trying to present that image of OK.

[BDP]

Well the good part is that most Christians are not these hatemongering types that this politician represents.

This may be true, but you don't hear much from them on this issue. If we were to see a unified Christian effort to condemn her sentiments, then maybe we'd see some change, but that's not going to happen. I suspect that many would not mind her policies being implemented, even if they disagree with the way in which she presents them.

If you insert "Communism" where "Gay" was, would you have a problem with what she said?

"The Communist party agenda is destroying this nation; it's just a fact,” Kern is heard saying on a YouTube audio segment. "I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.”

Actually, it would be equally as idiotic and would show just as much of a delusional paranoia. If you ask me, delusional paranoia amongst our representation is the biggest threat to our nation. In the last century, the fear of gays and communism has done more to erode the values of personal freedom on which this nation still claims to the world to be based.

The reality is that people like Kern really amount to radical theocratic revolutionaries that believe legislation and allocation of public assets should be based on their mystical beliefs and not on the original constitution or its intentions. They believe that rights and privileges should be predicated on one's own mystical beliefs. Basically, they feel freedoms and privileges provided for and protected by the government is only for those that live a life based on their own personal theocratic doctrine, not on an individuals status as American citizen. The widespread acceptance of this belief, especially in this part of the country, clearly makes that agenda a much bigger threat to the basic tenants of freedom than communism ever was in this country.

[jbrown84]

Um, I'm pretty sure that Terrorists MURDER PEOPLE. Gay's are a bigger threat to America?? The woman is a complete and utter disgrace. She says "look at all these gay teens committing suicide". HELLO! It's because of people like you that make them feel awful about who they are.

It's very embarrassing for Oklahoma.

[Bob&Frank&Ted&Bob&Alice]

Why am I supposed to care what New Jersey or New York or
Florida thinks about Oklahoma?

[Dustbowl]

Someone needs to run against that f_wit. Her district has a lot of black, latino and working class. Looks like a great Dem pickup to me. Kern seems to represent what's left of the Repub Party today. Completely philosophically bankrupt. I'm sure the numerous citizens in her house district who are worrying about foreclosures, $4 gas and the coming recession are really focused on the "gay agenda." By the way, she insulted a powerful and affluent group that is motivated enough to mount a campaign against her. I'm one district over or I would consider running against her. It would be the easiest campaign this cycle.

Great thought, but you have zero chance at beating her. That district is too close to the Nasty Marines University (Nazarene). The better idea is to force all the christians who don't support her view to come out against her. I'll bet my new Harley that won't happen either.

The Dems better start working on someone to replace Andrew Rice in his district.

[Dustbowl]

"The Communist party agenda is destroying this nation; it's just a fact,” Kern is heard saying on a YouTube audio segment. "I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.”

She forgot atheists and homeless people and welfare mothers driving a Mercedes. That is our biggest threat.

[jbrown84]

There are over 2000 comments on that News 9 story, and many many of them are from all across the country.

Great job Sally. Sure, you are welcome to your opinion, but when you call a group of people worse than murderers, you are crossing the line and people are going to notice.

Here's the video in question:

[Midtowner]

What is her "actions"? Her opinions on a behavior? You can disagree with her, you can think she is an idiot, but to advocate removing free speach isn't the way to go.

She isn't being thrown in jail for saying what she said, nor is she being fined. If the will of the people dictates that she experience a career change, her "free speech" has consequences.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want to say sans consequences. Imagine what would have happened to the President if he had been taped in the wake of Katrina making pejorative references (along racial grounds) regarding the blacks left behind in New Orleans. Do you think his "free speach" might have had consequences?

I doubt that as closely divided as the house is, the Republicans would willingy give up a seat, even if it were found out that Ms. Kern was an active member in the KKK womens' auxiliary, which I'm sure she's not, nor has she ever been. I just mean to say that partisan politics will prevent any real consequences for Rep. Kern, at least until the next election cycle comes around. Then, expect her to even draw a Republican primary challenger.

If she said she thought all gays should be burned at the stake I could understand, but what she said was she felt that they were a threat to American values. If you insert "Communism" where "Gay" was, would you have a problem with what she said?

No, she said homosexuality was more of a threat than terrorism, or Islam.

-- terrorism, I can understand, but the religious bigotry towards Islam? That's as bad as the anti-gay remark. We're trying to make inroads in the Islamic world. Her words don't exactly help our religions live in harmony. What she said may indeed be worse than Justice Holmes' "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater" analogy.

[Will]

Why am I supposed to care what New Jersey or New York or
Florida thinks about Oklahoma?

Because Oklahoma as a whole is trying to improve socially and econimically. We are trying to bring in new businesses and attract people to move here(or stay here) and vacation here. And whether you care or not what they think, others perception of oklahoma has a negative effect on people who are considering moving here or bringing their business here.

[jbrown84]

Several weeks ago, and 8th grade boy walked into a computer lab and shot a fellow student in the head--because he was gay.

Mrs. Kern's comments fuel people to do things like that. She is a hate-mongerer. SHE'S the terrorist.

[BDP]

Why am I supposed to care what New Jersey or New York or
Florida thinks about Oklahoma?

I guess if you agree with her, you shouldn't, but I think a lot of people don't like being represented in that manner. I think it's short sighted and ignorant for anyone to characterize a whole state based on one person's remarks, so what matters now is our reaction to it, really. As you can see there are at least as many people coming to her defense as condemning her words, which just reinforces the stereotype that we're an ignorant and bigoted community. This, in turn, as Will pointed out, does affect the decisions of people who decide where to invest their money and time. Then again, I supposed that people like her don't really care about that much.

[mheaton76]

I was doing some more thinking on this based on the conversation threads I've read thus far. I think one of the things that we shouldn't lose sight of is that the fundamentalist/luddite perspective is not gaining strength in our state, even though the flair ups from Sally Kern and those like her, as well as the idiotic red herrings that get floated in the Legislature would suggest the contrary.

Ultimately, anti-intellectualism and the abandonment of empiricism are incompatible with our ability to participate in the National, let alone global economy. The corporations that move here, and bring people here, will ultimately have none of it.

Religious radicals who would like to declare a separate peace from it all and say "thanks but no thanks," won't have a say in the matter. We have no choice but to move forward - and movements that try to turn back the clock show little historical precedent of actually succeeding.

It does go to show, however, that the American idea - that of a secular, progressive National entity, never actually took over in all of America, ironically as that may seem. Think of the South from about reconstruction until around 1970 - and you get my idea.

I have hope this will work itself out, and those who feel they have much to fear from people like me who are secular, progressive, gay - and even those who just generally march to the beat of a different drummer - will find that they have nothing to fear from us at all.

I have to hope, anyway. Because the abandonment of this place to people like them is really hard for me stomach - however tempting the thought of fleeing from them is from time to time.


www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

[Dustbowl]

I was doing some more thinking on this based on the conversation threads I've read thus far. I think one of the things that we shouldn't lose sight of is that the fundamentalist/luddite perspective is not gaining strength in our state, even though the flair ups from Sally Kern and those like her, as well as the idiotic red herrings that get floated in the Legislature would suggest the contrary.

Ultimately, anti-intellectualism and the abandonment of empiricism are incompatible with our ability to participate in the National, let alone global economy. The corporations that move here, and bring people here, will ultimately have none of it.

Religious radicals who would like to declare a separate peace from it all and say "thanks but no thanks," won't have a say in the matter. We have no choice but to move forward - and movements that try to turn back the clock show little historical precedent of actually succeeding.

It does go to show, however, that the American idea - that of a secular, progressive National entity, never actually took over in all of America, ironically as that may seem. Think of the South from about reconstruction until around 1970 - and you get my idea.

I have hope this will work itself out, and those who feel they have much to fear from people like me who are secular, progressive, gay - and even those who just generally march to the beat of a different drummer - will find that they have nothing to fear from us at all.

I have to hope, anyway. Because the abandonment of this place to people like them is really hard for me stomach - however tempting the thought of fleeing from them is from time to time.


www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

I REALLY hope you are correct about this. It's my greatest wish for our City/State. I'm heterosexual and atheist. I can't imagine the crap that gay people have to put up with. Great comments.

[mheaton76]

Thanks, Dustbowl - it's mine as well. By standing up for secularism, and for progressive politics and policy, we stand in good company.




www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

[jbrown84]

Ultimately, anti-intellectualism and the abandonment of empiricism are incompatible with our ability to participate in the National, let alone global economy. The corporations that move here, and bring people here, will ultimately have none of it.

I think you're right. Just look at the way Chesapeake is coming out against HB 1804, despite that being the love-child of powerful right wingers like Randy Terrill.



This is an image that I made in about 60 seconds. I want anyone that wants to use it to feel free. I have it as my profile pic on myspace and facebook. I just want to send a message to anyone that sees that Sally Kern is not the voice of all Oklahomans.

[Karried]

I posted that in my Bulletin too.... thanks! JBrown.. pm me your url if you want to - I'll add you ...

[Doug Loudenback]

I was doing some more thinking on this based on the conversation threads I've read thus far. I think one of the things that we shouldn't lose sight of is that the fundamentalist/luddite perspective is not gaining strength in our state, even though the flair ups from Sally Kern and those like her, as well as the idiotic red herrings that get floated in the Legislature would suggest the contrary.

Ultimately, anti-intellectualism and the abandonment of empiricism are incompatible with our ability to participate in the National, let alone global economy. The corporations that move here, and bring people here, will ultimately have none of it.

Religious radicals who would like to declare a separate peace from it all and say "thanks but no thanks," won't have a say in the matter. We have no choice but to move forward - and movements that try to turn back the clock show little historical precedent of actually succeeding.

It does go to show, however, that the American idea - that of a secular, progressive National entity, never actually took over in all of America, ironically as that may seem. Think of the South from about reconstruction until around 1970 - and you get my idea.

I have hope this will work itself out, and those who feel they have much to fear from people like me who are secular, progressive, gay - and even those who just generally march to the beat of a different drummer - will find that they have nothing to fear from us at all.

I have to hope, anyway. Because the abandonment of this place to people like them is really hard for me stomach - however tempting the thought of fleeing from them is from time to time.

www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

I REALLY hope you are correct about this. It's my greatest wish for our City/State. I'm heterosexual and atheist. I can't imagine the crap that gay people have to put up with. Great comments.

Finally, I find that I have something in common with dustbowl! I'll rethink my thinking about your milk-bottle project!

Excellent post, Michael! While comments like this House Member certainly do cause embarrasment to our city and state, in the long term, perhaps other more responsible members of the Republican (or Democrat) party will come to want to not be in the same room with this lady as she speaks, or in the same grocery, movie theater, etc. I don't know if she has children, but even they might find embarrassment, shame, and sadness, in hearing such words from their mother who they would surely love ... maybe they wouldn't, but maybe they would.

Regardless, in the end, some good may come of it.

[Dustbowl]

Finally, I find that I have something in common with dustbowl! I'll rethink my thinking about your milk-bottle project!

Excellent post, Michael! While comments like this House Member certainly do cause embarrasment to our city and state, in the long term, perhaps other more responsible members of the Republican (or Democrat) party will come to want to not be in the same room with this lady as she speaks, or in the same grocery, movie theater, etc. I don't know if she has children, but even they might find embarrassment, shame, and sadness, in hearing such words from their mother who they would surely love ... maybe they wouldn't, but maybe they would.

Regardless, in the end, some good may come of it.

See, I'm winning them over one by one. Before long, you will be living in the Mini-Flatiron and leasing office space.