Why I am voting No.

[solitude]

I had decided not to come back here until all this back and forth and mudslinging is over. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on this board. But, I had to say something about the poster who said that it's the conservatives that are opposing the March 4th proposal. There may be some, but far and away the vast number of opponents are liberal. Whether it be Nathaniel Batchelder, Robin Meyers, neighborhood-based community groups, the list of liberal opponents is long. I just wanted to clear that up. If it's a tax that benefits the rich - you can usually count on conservative support.

I've read with amusement the thread on where David Glover lives. Yet, some of the biggest boosters in this back and forth war on this board are from Edmond, Norman, Bethany, Florida, California, Missouri and Washington.

I still plan to vote "Yes" on this deal, but the attacks on those who oppose the tax extension have been repulsive to me. Don't get me wrong, the personal attacks against Doug and others by out-of-state opponents make me sick as well, but I am shocked at how if you support this thing you are expected to look at the opponents as people who are stupid, ignorant, don't care about the city, etc. It's been truly disgusting. There are legitimate reasons to vote against the sales tax extension. For one, no NBA city has EVER used a sales tax as the vehicle for public participation. Our sales tax, of course, even includes taxing groceries.

Someone said that David Glover has been a lot more vocal about the whole thing than Clay Bennett. Please. This whole thing is a gift to Clay Bennett (especially the "practice facility" which will house their luxury offices.) As for the "more vocal" nonsense, Bennett's family newspaper has been nothing more than a daily pamphlet for support of the tax extension. Let's be intellectually honest here.

I'm voting "Yes" with my nose pinched and my teeth clenched because I honestly believe an NBA team will be a boon to a city our size. We will be the smallest city in the league and that will be a fun role to play when we prove that OKC will support their team. Loudly, as we all remember with the Hornets. But on the other hand, I can't believe the be-all and end-all that some are making this out to be. To the poster, these people who feel this way are BIG basketball fans. They think that hearing "Oklahoma City" every night on ESPN and a score in the sports pages will make or break our image as a city. That's just ridiculous. For every NBA fan, there are dozens more that see other benchmarks on what makes an "elite" city. If this were to fail, I would certainly hope that the supporters would not jump on the "we're a bad city," train. There are a lot of good things happening in OKC - the lack of a professional basketball team will not "break" us as a "city on the move." The definition of that, by the way, to mean "a city with the NBA" has been carried to ridiculous lengths.

So, I hope for a positive outcome on March 4th. I will be voting "Yes," but I will be voting with a lot of people who should be ashamed of their attitude toward those who oppose this gun-to-the-head hostage taking of this city by the NBA and the Professional Basketball Club, LLC.

I'm voting "Yes" --- with disdain that I feel like I am being blackmailed for that basketball team. But, that's the way the game is played. But it also doesn't make it right.

[andy157]

Sorry about that. It was a heat-of-the-moment comment. I'll edit it.

Eh, can't edit it now. Suck. Oh, well. Cheers.

No problem. And cheers to you as well. One thing is for certain, come March 5th it will all be over.

[Saberman]

Some may be missing a point, MAPS I, or MAPS II(schools), where never to be used for on going expenditures. They were specificity for improvements or up grading, and not for infrastructure, such as swimming pools, streets, of animal control.

Unlike our legislature using Indian Casinos and/or lottery money for general fund expenditures. These monies were to be use as capital improvement money over and above what was already being appropriated.

OKC has done a very good job, by using an independent citizen committee to approve expenditures and projects for MAPS. They have been good at asking, and receiving, citizen input in order to plan these projects. They have had very few cost overruns, except when it was found that additional expenditures for added improvements were needed. But it was always up to us to vote on these additions.

No other city that I have ever heard of has had the civic pride that OKC has shown throughout this whole process. Officials from other cities have come here and have expressed surprise and wounder that the citizens of OKC have been able to bring this all together. Civic UNITY - PRIDE. I think OKC has gone above and beyond. The March 4th vote will pass and IMO by a large number.

After all is said and done Oklahomans, even transplants, love OKC and Oklahoma, and want to show the rest of the country what we're made of....

[andy157]

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Stern looking forward to NBA's return to Oklahoma City
E-MAIL PRINT COMMENTS 0 WATCH THIS TOPIC
Posted: April 13, 2007
OKLAHOMA CITY -- NBA commissioner David Stern attended the New Orleans Hornets' final regular-season game in their temporary home Friday and complimented Oklahoma City for an "absolutely extraordinary" job as host.

Before the start of the game, Stern took a microphone and thanked the city, state, government leaders and fans.


"Most of all, thank you to the fans of this most major league of cities," Stern said to loud cheers. "I look forward to the day that the NBA will return to Oklahoma City."

Oklahoma City hosted 71 of the Hornets' 82 home games over the past two seasons, with the finale against Denver becoming the 30th time the Ford Center was sold out. The Hornets are to return home for their full schedule next season.

The Hornets had a pregame video tribute thanking the fans as the best in the NBA, and the team's starters were introduced from the arena's concourses and walked to the court through the stands, slapping high-fives with fans who stood to cheer.

Fans were given an OKC patch, like the one the Hornets have worn on their jerseys since Hurricane Katrina forced them to vacate the New Orleans Arena, and white T-shirts that read "NBA (heart) OKC." The Hornets wore jerseys that read 'Oklahoma City' on the front that were to be given away to fans after the game.

"When we were looking for ways to say, "Thank you,' first we came up with the hard ones like a T-shirt that expresses our love for Oklahoma City," Stern said in a pregame news conference. "And then there's the easy one: Put Stern on a plane for a couple hours, enjoy the game and say thank you. That's what I'm here for."

Hornets owner George Shinn and point guard Chris Paul, last year's Rookie of the Year, also addressed the crowd before the game.

"If we keep winning games, we'll get a couple more games back here in Oklahoma City," said Paul, referring to the team's remaining playoff hopes.

Stern said he expected the league to find an "intelligent system" to allow the team's games to be broadcast on television and radio in Oklahoma City next season and allow Oklahomans to "continue their relationship with the Hornets."

Before he could even be asked, Stern gave his thoughts on a city that had never before hosted a major pro sports franchise.

"Yes, you've exceeded our wildest expectations. Yes, Oklahoma City has demonstrated that it's a major league city. Yes, it would be my expectation that we would have a team here someday. No, I don't have any particular team in mind," Stern said.

Stern characterized Oklahoma City's average attendance of 18,329 fans over the two seasons as "very, very strong in our view," and compared the city to Orlando, San Antonio, Portland and Sacramento -- other cities that have an NBA team as their only major league franchise.

"I think the last two years here have demonstrated that this city can do the job as well," Stern said.

Stern said he didn't think the Ford Center, which cost only $89 million and opened in 2002, necessarily needed to be upgraded to host an NBA team in the future.

Stern also addressed the team's return to New Orleans, saying he hoped to have more sponsorship dollars and more season-ticket holders when the Hornets get back than they had in previous seasons in the city.

"I'll tell you what. We're going to work very hard so that we can say at the end of next season that they did just as well in New Orleans as they did in Oklahoma City," Stern said. "That's a really tall order, and I'm not sure that's a successful prescription that we can reach, but we're going to do our best to do it. That's all you can do is your best."

Stern said the NBA would be involved in the team's search for a practice facility in New Orleans that was promised as part of its lease.

"We are honoring our obligation to be back in New Orleans," Stern said.

Stern called New Orleans "a changed city" but reiterated the league's commitment there.

"The Hornets have their work cut out for them. Then NBA has our work cut out for it. But against the tragedies that there are in life, that's not a tragedy to work hard," Stern said. "We're planning to do it, and we're planning to succeed."




Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

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I thought this was somewhat interesting

[betts]

Andy, are you trying to imply that David Stern's warm response that night is the reason we will get a team whether we pass this tax proposal or not? See, I believe that if we pass this tax proposal, the Board of Governors will appove the relocation request. I actually don't have any data to support that belief, but I'm a huge pessimist about all this, so the fact that I feel optimistic is probably a good sign.

But, I also believe David Stern thinks giving us the chance to have this team is enough, that it's a continuation of his warm response that night. Five years ago he laughed at Mick Cornett when he asked for a team, so he's come a long way. But, he's not going to give us something for nothing, he's not going to give us something no other city has had. I think this vote, in his eyes, is a referendum on Oklahoma City's willingness to support a team, to take a step forward and join the other NBA cities.

New Orleans, Memphis and Charlotte are the last three cities to be given teams. All of them had to have new arenas in place, or the agreement to build them in place before they got a team. New Orleans already had a new arena, but they had to renovate it to bring it up to NBA standards. They also had to agree to build a practice facility to get the team.

Remember, the ONLY reason Seattle is potentially losing the Sonics is because they refuse to build an arena. If we refuse to upgrade ours, we are doing precisely what Seattle did. David Stern may be grateful to us, but Seattle has supported the Sonics for 40 years, and they're a bigger city with a much larger television market. He's not going to do something for us he wouldn't do for Seattle.

Clay Bennett, Mick Cornett, Ted Streuli have all said we will not get a team if we do not pass this tax proposal. There's nobody with any stature in the NBA or this city saying the reverse.

[andy157]

Andy, are you trying to imply that David Stern's warm response that night is the reason we will get a team whether we pass this tax proposal or not? See, I believe that if we pass this tax proposal, the Board of Governors will appove the relocation request. I actually don't have any data to support that belief, but I'm a huge pessimist about all this, so the fact that I feel optimistic is probably a good sign.

But, I also believe David Stern thinks giving us the chance to have this team is enough, that it's a continuation of his warm response that night. Five years ago he laughed at Mick Cornett when he asked for a team, so he's come a long way. But, he's not going to give us something for nothing, he's not going to give us something no other city has had. I think this vote, in his eyes, is a referendum on Oklahoma City's willingness to support a team, to take a step forward and join the other NBA cities.

New Orleans, Memphis and Charlotte are the last three cities to be given teams. All of them had to have new arenas in place, or the agreement to build them in place before they got a team. New Orleans already had a new arena, but they had to renovate it to bring it up to NBA standards. They also had to agree to build a practice facility to get the team.

Remember, the ONLY reason Seattle is potentially losing the Sonics is because they refuse to build an arena. If we refuse to upgrade ours, we are doing precisely what Seattle did. David Stern may be grateful to us, but Seattle has supported the Sonics for 40 years, and they're a bigger city with a much larger television market. He's not going to do something for us he wouldn't do for Seattle.

Clay Bennett, Mick Cornett, Ted Streuli have all said we will not get a team if we do not pass this tax proposal. There's nobody with any stature in the NBA or this city saying the reverse.

Betts, I'm not trying to imply anything. I was just curious as to why and/or when, he did a 180 regarding upgrades to the F.C. from his April of 2007 statement when he said that "he didn't think the F.C., which only cost $89 Million dollars and opened in 2002, necessarily needed to be upgraded to host an NBA team in the future". Concerning our willingness to support a team, and take a step forward and join the other NBA City's. What do you think he mean't with his statement that, "yes, OKC has demonstrated that it's a Major League City"? Please remember, I'm all for, and have no problem with, upgrading the F.C.

[flintysooner]

It's just a matter of timing and competition. We had an opportunity to host a team from New Orleans because of a disaster and a lot of effort by a lot of people.

Whether we like it or not our city has to compete with other cities. Our state has to compete with other states. Our country has to compete with other countries.

Tulsa's new BOK Center, which I think is stunning and beautiful, is hosting the Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic on Oct. 13th. Other venues are well known.

Will Rogers' famous saying "even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" is true in this case.

[betts]

Betts, I'm not trying to imply anything. I was just curious as to why and/or when, he did a 180 regarding upgrades to the F.C. from his April of 2007 statement when he said that "he didn't think the F.C., which only cost $89 Million dollars and opened in 2002, necessarily needed to be upgraded to host an NBA team in the future". Concerning our willingness to support a team, and take a step forward and join the other NBA City's. What do you think he mean't with his statement that, "yes, OKC has demonstrated that it's a Major League City"? Please remember, I'm all for, and have no problem with, upgrading the F.C.

I know Andy, I'm not trying to be adversarial. Again, I HATE trying to make written words sound like they would if I were speaking to you directly.

This is what I think. Just my opinion, of course. I think that David Stern was very happy with what we did with the Hornets. I think he likes OKC and would like to put a team here. He might be perfectly fine with the Ford Center. But, I think, he really, really wants to know that we want this team here. He's had trouble in other cities where it's not been clear what the citizenry wants (Memphis most specifically), and this is one way to see if we really want a team, because this is not just a free gift. As we've found with free tickets, people will take free tickets, but they are a lot less likely to go to an event than if they paid for it with their own money. If they give us the Sonics for free, perhaps we will not value them, perhaps there's no good way to gauge if we will value them.

I also wonder if they're not worried about being sued by Seattle, a pretty lawsuit happy place, I've noticed. If we do precisely what Seattle is doing, and they give us a team anyway, there's probably something Seattle can sue the NBA for.

I also think the Board of Governors may be a little more goosey about moving the team than Stern or Bennett. This is one way of presenting them with a little more pressure to approve the relocations.

[andy157]

I know Andy, I'm not trying to be adversarial. Again, I HATE trying to make written words sound like they would if I were speaking to you directly.

This is what I think. Just my opinion, of course. I think that David Stern was very happy with what we did with the Hornets. I think he likes OKC and would like to put a team here. He might be perfectly fine with the Ford Center. But, I think, he really, really wants to know that we want this team here. He's had trouble in other cities where it's not been clear what the citizenry wants (Memphis most specifically), and this is one way to see if we really want a team, because this is not just a free gift. As we've found with free tickets, people will take free tickets, but they are a lot less likely to go to an event than if they paid for it with their own money. If they give us the Sonics for free, perhaps we will not value them, perhaps there's no good way to gauge if we will value them.

I also wonder if they're not worried about being sued by Seattle, a pretty lawsuit happy place, I've noticed. If we do precisely what Seattle is doing, and they give us a team anyway, there's probably something Seattle can sue the NBA for.

I also think the Board of Governors may be a little more goosey about moving the team than Stern or Bennett. This is one way of presenting them with a little more pressure to approve the relocations.

Bets, your opinions and your speculations are legitimate, and do have merit.

[Kerry]

I think the difference between Stern '07 and Stern '08 has more to do with the other 29 owners. With relocation Stern is not the only one that has to be convinced.

[Dave Cook]

A bit off topic, but has anyone heard any comments or interviews from current Sonics players about the prospect of relocating to Oklahoma City?

I'd be really curious what the locker room atmosphere must be like on that team. Crap team, dying crowd, relocating to God Knows Where.

[Karried]

relocating to God Knows Where.

Hopefully to the city that has the best NBA fans ever... Loud City!

Seriously, the Hornet's absolutely loved it here... and we loved them. Didn't the Sonics play here and see our enthusiasm for the team?

Every team that played here was blown away ( interviews afterward) by the electric, rowdy and loud reception and support we gave the Hornets.

It would take about a week for the Sonics (cough, cough Thunderbirds) to fall in love with us and vice versa.

Vote YES!

[andy157]

I think the difference between Stern '07 and Stern '08 has more to do with the other 29 owners. With relocation Stern is not the only one that has to be convinced.

Kerry, I'll say to you as I did to betts, your opinions and speculations are legitimate, and have merit. Nevertheless. It's my opinion this whole deal stinks. Indeed, having an NBA team brings a lot of positives. Again, it's my opinion that, this so called NBA Business Model, accepted practice, way of the world, call it what you want, is nothing more, or nothing less than a scam to use other peoples money. I will give all involved their due credit. They have their game well honed. I don't know for sure what brought about the difference between the Stern of 07 and the Stern of 08. It appears to me that the Stern of 07 was simply blowing smoke up our asses.

[betts]

. It appears to me that the Stern of 07 was simply blowing smoke up our asses.

I agree with Kerry. Although ,I think some of Stern's earlier comments were part of the general lovefest that occurred at the end of the Hornet's last season here. He was kind of overwhelmed by his reception at the last game and forgot to wear his "head of the NBA" hat. With the cold light of day, and 29 other owners staring him in the face, things suddenly were different. In recent memory, there's not been a team that has gotten a team without something being done with the arena. Charlotte built a new arena before (and probably conditionally to) getting the Bobcats. Memphis did the same with the Grizzlies. New Orleans already had a NBA ready arena, but they had to fix it up and they had to agree to build a practice facility. I think putting a team here without any sort of attempt on the part of our city to act in kind would not sit well with those other 29 owners, especially when there are other cities that have brand new arenas. Especially considering it's a penny tax for 15 short months. Other cities have saddled themselves with far more debt for a professional team. Seattle was out almost a billion dollars for their sports teams.

What gets me is that OKC is sitting right on the cusp of moving up and being one of those cities people talk about. We're so close to being there, with our stunning plans for the downtown and all. But, I see turning down the opportunity to host a professional franchise as a shot in the foot. First of all, we'll be the laughingstock of the sports world. We'll get GREAT publicity on this issue if the vote loses(not the good kind), right before they turn their attention permanently to the city that will get the team. We have a chance to add something with so much entertainment value to our city. We have a chance to duplicate the lovefest we had with the Hornets, and to have all the buzz downtown we had when the Hornets were in town, on a permanent basis. It was magical.

See, when every single editor of our newspapers is in support of this issue, even the Gazette. When every public figure besides Wanda Jo (whom I think is too senile to realize that she would be better serving her constituents by telling them about the tax rebate) supports this, I have to wonder why people don't see this as an incredible piece of kismet. Oklahoma City has the opportunity to host an NBA team. I almost have to slap myself to realize it's even true. And, when I realize there's a reasonable possibility we will let this amazing chance pass through our fingers, it's like a cold, wet slap in the face and I ask myself why I even choose to live here.

[jbrown84]

re: your question, Andy-

I think we have to keep in mind that Stern is not the ultimate decider. Even if he feels the Ford Center is 100% fine, we also have to show the Board of Governors and the relocation committee that we're on board for the long haul. And I'm sure this was intended to send that message.

But it really doesn't matter, as the Ford Center needs these improvements either way.

[windowphobe]

Ray Allen was unhappy with the prospect, but he's since been traded.

I really don't think too many of the current roster would be thrilled by a move, and most of them are under contract through 2008/09.

The Sonics payroll, incidentally, has no high-dollar folks anymore, but there's an awful lot of them in the $3-6 million range. (Wilcox and Ridnour are working for $6.5 million this year.) I suspect that Sonics management will deal during the offseason for potentially-happier players.

[bretthexum]

GREAT post Solitude. That's exactly how I feel. Although I will vote yes, I am sick and tired of the spin put on it all.

[Saberman]

As with the Hornets players, I think the players would warm up to the idea of being in OKC once they get here. We have a way of changing peoples minds once they have gotten here and see what a great place this is to live.

Most of these guys live near their families during the off season anyway, but as with some of the Hornets players and coaches, they like because it a good place to raise their families.

I think most of the talk in Seattle is more for fan consumption. They really don't care what city the team is in as long as they get their pay check.