OKC Bus Station needs work

[Patrick]

Improvements are drastically needed at the OKC Bus Station. For years now, the structure has sat in disrepair, and has become an eyesore along Sheridan, right in the heart of the Art's District. The sad part is, this is an entry way for some travelers to our city. It seems like we whould offer a better welcome than a run down bus station. As part of MAPS III, or maybe even as part of a bond issue, we need to strongly consider either renovating the bus station, or building a completely new one, a first class, 21st century upscale bus station.

Sure, many of the people that hang around the station aren't the highest quality in the world, but that's beside the point. It wasn't a factor when the new Metro Transit Transfer Station was built....it's a first class facility, and yet poor people still use it.

So, to Mick Cornett and others reading, I propose we look into a new bus station for Oklahoma City, a unique, 21st century station that reflects our culture. This would drastically improve our overall image as a city, and improve the Art's District.

[Jay]

Right across the street would be a better place for it or better yet somewhere along the new I-40 corridor. I know some people may claim historical value for the place; however, it could be remodeled for another use.

We need a modern ground transportation hub in OKC. It could be a central point for a person to rent a car, hail a cab, catch a bus, or get a parking pass. You could easily do that by clearing the rest of the buildings that are on the same block as the new transit center.

[Luke]

oklacity75, that's a great idea.

[mranderson]

I have mixed feelings on Union Bus Station.

One one hand, yes, we need to rebuild a modern facility. Does it need to have a car rental company? No. Amtrak's presence in Oklahoma City is too small to justify one. If the service expands, then possibly. However, not now.

The people that take a bus are largely transiants. People that are of lower class and lower moals than the majority of people. I had to ride a bus from Dallas to Oklahoma City once. Most of the people were really trashy looking. Most decent people fly. This was an emergency, and I could not catch a flight in time.

So, due to the fact that the mindset and lifestyle of the majority of bus passangers tells me they would probably tear a new station apart, I do not support a new station near the focus point downtown.

On the otherhand. We need a new station. We should find a lower income area and build a fairly decent building to house the station. It needs to be fairly large as Oklahoma City is a Grayhound hub and has been for years. The building could be one that blends in with the area. Possibly a steel building that is not elaborate. That way, if the tranisants do tear it apart, it will STILL blend in. Then demolish the current one.

[Midtowner]

I have mixed feelings on Union Bus Station.

One one hand, yes, we need to rebuild a modern facility. Does it need to have a car rental company? No. Amtrak's presence in Oklahoma City is too small to justify one. If the service expands, then possibly. However, not now.

The people that take a bus are largely transiants. People that are of lower class and lower moals than the majority of people. I had to ride a bus from Dallas to Oklahoma City once. Most of the people were really trashy looking. Most decent people fly. This was an emergency, and I could not catch a flight in time.

So, due to the fact that the mindset and lifestyle of the majority of bus passangers tells me they would probably tear a new station apart, I do not support a new station near the focus point downtown.

On the otherhand. We need a new station. We should find a lower income area and build a fairly decent building to house the station. It needs to be fairly large as Oklahoma City is a Grayhound hub and has been for years. The building could be one that blends in with the area. Possibly a steel building that is not elaborate. That way, if the tranisants do tear it apart, it will STILL blend in. Then demolish the current one.

I agree. The bus station is just a way for transients to get here. I don't particularly think we have any need for a new one. The current one is fairly well hidden on the southwest corner of downtown near all of the services for transients. I don't see where any improvement is needed?

What do we want to do? Spend more money so we can attract more transients? What corporation considering OKC ever checks out the local Greyhound station?

[Proactive Volunteer]

Where is your compassion for lower income people in our City?

I have noticed this before that some on this board have no tolerance for low income citizens of Oklahoma City.

Do you realize that the people you say will tear down a new bus station, have the right to transportation?

As car prices go up, there will be a large number of people who cannot afford to buy a car and maintain it. Is it right to call everyone who does not drive a transient?

Did you think that maybe the owner of the Bus Station has a property maintenance responsibility to keep up the appearance and condition of the station.

[Midtowner]

Where is your compassion for lower income people in our City?

I have noticed this before that some on this board have no tolerance for low income citizens of Oklahoma City.

Do you realize that the people you say will tear down a new bus station, have the right to transportation?

As car prices go up, there will be a large number of people who cannot afford to buy a car and maintain it. Is it right to call everyone who does not drive a transient?

Did you think that maybe the owner of the Bus Station has a property maintenance responsibility to keep up the appearance and condition of the station.

I'm not sure how the bus station is operated. I'm sure it's subject to all of the same code requirements that other businesses are. As long as it's meeting those requirements, I have no problem with its condition. I'm not advocating that we do away with these services, tear them down, or anything like that. However, I am advocating that businesses and charities that cater to transients such as the Jesus House remain in their current locations. One way to kill the downtown renaissances would be to bring those people downtown.

If getting there is a problem, I'm sure there is already a bus line going to the bus station.

Honestly, I don't have a lot of compassion for people who have chosen to (and yes, you do have a choice) to live in poverty. To live that way is a choice. When people make choices, they have to live with the consequences. When people make the decision to be transients, homeless, poor, riding the bus instead of flying or having the means to drive yourself may or may not be a consequence of that decision.

[mranderson]

Personally, I have a BIG problem with most traniants. Most are bums.

I have found most people who have been raised in lower social-economic atmospheres have no respect for other people's property and will destroy it when given the chance. That is why I am not in favor of a nice bus station.

I also have no respect for places like Jesus House. When I needed help and asked them for it (Thought I would try it on my own to see what I could do) they turned me away. I was unemployed, no unemployment insurance, and had bills to pay and needed food. They said no because I had no children. Plus everyone in there looked like crap.

So, unless they will take care of it, then do not give it to them.

[Midtowner]

Personally, I have a BIG problem with most traniants. Most are bums.

I have found most people who have been raised in lower social-economic atmospheres have no respect for other people's property and will destroy it when given the chance. That is why I am not in favor of a nice bus station.

I also have no respect for places like Jesus House. When I needed help and asked them for it (Thought I would try it on my own to see what I could do) they turned me away. I was unemployed, no unemployment insurance, and had bills to pay and needed food. They said no because I had no children. Plus everyone in there looked like crap.

So, unless they will take care of it, then do not give it to them.

Concur mostly.

Kodak moment.

[kielaaron]

These kind of comments are disparaging. I know that it is hard to face the problem of transients in our environments; I have been approached by them in every major city I've visited-- even outside Harkins this Christmas...

But the idea put forth that individuals always make the choice to be destitute is obscene. I am poor as hell. I have tons of bills that I can never attend to. I was raised in an upper-middle class environment and understand a human's place in its context... BUT I am still poor nonetheless. If I simply explain to you that I'm a college student being taught a life lesson through my parents making me work to get where I want to go, I'm sure you can find that I'm not a disgusting bum, one who is worthy of your time.

Point is: You cannot know the circumstances of each of the individuals that you are labeling as potential threats to our environment. We can understand that precautions must be taken, but comments that have been made in this thread have no room in our sacred "moral" nation.

Seeing that there are this many individuals in our area that can so quickly oust a class from human consideration most definitely brings me to believe that I would rather take my professional capabilities elsewhere when I complete my undergraduate coursework. If we're all here to discuss making our area fantastic and stand apart from the others, perhaps we should discuss reforming the individuals here as well. Maybe some community courses in compassion, tolerance, and tongue-biting would do us all some good.

If we're trying to sell ourselves as a progressive, classy place to be... well, I don't think that a lot of attitudes I've seen exhibited here would effectively close a deal.

[Patrick]

I agree that many transients could make better lives for themselves. My family has offered help to many that simply wanted to remain homeless and didn't want to help themselves.

But, there are some that truly have mental problems, had financial problems, were layed off, etc. that truly don't want to be where they're at, but at the moment they have no other choice. At OU Medical Center, I've dealt with many homeless people that had schizophrenia, severe depression, substance abuse problems, etc. that just couldn't sustain a living. Is it their fault? Well, not really. It does cost a lot of money to treat these problems successfully. And even then, some mental problems can't be treated well.
I suppose SSI disabiltiy is an option, but you can't live off that. So what are these people supposed to do? Well, they remain homeless.

Personally, I think we need to improve every aspect of our transportation system. The new Metro Transit Transfer Station is extremely nice, one of the nicer transfer stations in the country. Mostly transiets use our bus system, yet we still invested money into a new transfer station. But, I guess that's mass transit, and that's slightly different from Greyhound. Still, I think even the transients deserve a decent place to catch the bus. Union Bus Station isn't pleasent. We could build a new bus station right across the street (in the open lot just west of Stage Center), still keeping the bus station in the same general area. Sure, it wouldn't have to be a gem or anything, but it could still be more modern and brighter than our present station. Just because people are poor doesn't mean they should be discriminated against and given the worst of the worst.

[Midtowner]

I was once a poor college student as well. However, by CHOICE, you are changing your situation.

Are you destitute? No, you are not. You're a college student, and like most college students, you are right now, poorer than you ever will be.

In our sacred, moral nation, what more moral notion could there be than that an individual can only succeed by making a contribution to society? If someone is a draw on society, i.e., they are destitute transients, they are the ones committing the immoral act. How then is it "obscene" for me to say that out loud?

Seeing that there are this many individuals in our area that can so quickly oust a class from human consideration most definitely brings me to believe that I would rather take my professional capabilities elsewhere when I complete my undergraduate coursework. If we're all here to discuss making our area fantastic and stand apart from the others, perhaps we should discuss reforming the individuals here as well. Maybe some community courses in compassion, tolerance, and tongue-biting would do us all some good.

True, there is a class of individuals that don't even give themselves human consideration. They drift from place to place freeloading off of individuals and communities. They are deserving of nothing because they contribute nothing. Compassion and tolerance, and tongue biting have their place in society. I do not, however, think that their place is to mollycoddle those who are irresponsible, incapable and undeserving.

I abhor "progressive" politics. I believe that individuals reap what they sew. I believe in individualism and individual success. I do not believe that the government or society owes me anything except to stay out of my way when I try to make my contribution.

[Midtowner]

I agree that many transients could make better lives for themselves. My family has offered help to many that simply wanted to remain homeless and didn't want to help themselves.

But, there are some that truly have mental problems, had financial problems, were layed off, etc. that truly don't want to be where they're at, but at the moment they have no other choice. At OU Medical Center, I've dealt with many homeless people that had schizophrenia, severe depression, substance abuse problems, etc. that just couldn't sustain a living. Is it their fault? Well, not really. It does cost a lot of money to treat these problems successfully. And even then, some mental problems can't be treated well.
I suppose SSI disabiltiy is an option, but you can't live off that. So what are these people supposed to do? Well, they remain homeless.

Personally, I think we need to improve every aspect of our transportation system. The new Metro Transit Transfer Station is extremely nice, one of the nicer transfer stations in the country. Mostly transiets use our bus system, yet we still invested money into a new transfer station. But, I guess that's mass transit, and that's slightly different from Greyhound. Still, I think even the transients deserve a decent place to catch the bus. Union Bus Station isn't pleasent. We could build a new bus station right across the street (in the open lot just west of Stage Center), still keeping the bus station in the same general area. Sure, it wouldn't have to be a gem or anything, but it could still be more modern and brighter than our present station. Just because people are poor doesn't mean they should be discriminated against and given the worst of the worst.

Why must society bear the burden though? The bus station is not a municipal service. It is not owned by the city. It is a private business. If they are keeping the building up to code, then they are fullfilling their obligation. If they they that they can increase their profits by improving their conditions (how, adding a plasma TV or two?), more power to 'em.

[Jay]

I can't belive what this discussion has turned into, I was just making a suggestion to improve one of are cities eyesores. Now where everything short of making it a crime to be poor. Unfortunately we will always have a homeless problem in this country. The only things we can do is be appreciative of are good fortune and donate to organizations that work with the homeless.

Since some of you believe that putting money into a facilty that is used by the homeless is a bad idea. How would you feel if the city made a new ordinace tomorrow. That stated that the city will only provide street repairs to neighborhoods with homes that are valued at $300,000 or more.

You may think that your lifestyle is better than the homeless. I guarantee there is someone out there that is saying they would rather die than live in your neighborhood. That is one of the main problems with this country. We spend to much time admiring and criticizing everyone else. When we need to spend more time tending to the affairs in are own life.

[Todd]

I try not to get involved with hot threads very often. However, this thread seemed to invade my thoughts this morning as I was setting in meetings this morning. I agree with kielaaron and Proactive Volunteer. To often we get wrapped up in the "economics" of a situation and forget one importnant point. We are ALL humans whether we live in Donald Trumps world or the transients world. To lump ALL transients together and Damn them all is simply wrong. There are exceptions to every situation.

By the way Midtowner I understand you did not specify in your post that ALL transients were in the same class. In fact, your statement "for people who have chosen to" would indicate that you would acknowledge that there are in fact people who have not chosen to be there.

I would agree a large % of transients have found themselves in their current situation because of choices they have made. It's what drove them to make those choices that matter in my opinion. I think we would all agree that something failed along the way. The failure could be one of a million different things which is completely beyond the scope of this thread.

I could go on about this issue but the topic of this thread is OKC Bus Station needs work. Let's stick to the subject of this thread and move on.

[Midtowner]

I can't belive what this discussion has turned into, I was just making a suggestion to improve one of are cities eyesores. Now where everything short of making it a crime to be poor. Unfortunately we will always have a homeless problem in this country. The only things we can do is be appreciative of are good fortune and donate to organizations that work with the homeless.

Since some of you believe that putting money into a facilty that is used by the homeless is a bad idea. How would you feel if the city made a new ordinace tomorrow. That stated that the city will only provide street repairs to neighborhoods with homes that are valued at $300,000 or more.

You may think that your lifestyle is better than the homeless. I guarantee there is someone out there that is saying they would rather die than live in your neighborhood. That is one of the main problems with this country. We spend to much time admiring and criticizing everyone else. When we need to spend more time tending to the affairs in are own life.

Actually, the law might actually make some sense since the individuals in those homes do pay the vast majority of the taxes that fix the roads... Why shouldn't their roads get fixed first?

[Midtowner]

By the way Midtowner I understand you did not specify in your post that ALL transients were in the same class. In fact, your statement "for people who have chosen to" would indicate that you would acknowledge that there are in fact people who have not chosen to be there.

Precisely correct Todd. There are individuals that have chosen a certain way of life. I would feel very used were I to be made to subsidize their choices.

Others that have not chosen that way of life and are working for the betterment of their situation by using whatever means that are at their disposal are different. I thought I was pretty straightforward with that. I guess not.

But as I said, (back to the thread), why do we as a city need to subsidize a business that really does nothing for us? It won't bring us any jobs, it won't even increase the number of people that utilize the service. I simply can't think of one reason to improve the station other than "it looks bad". Well, MANY buildings in that part of town look bad.. Why stop with the bus station? Or better yet, why start there?

[El Gato Pollo Loco!!!]

About the subject, I say just "spruce" the current place up. No real need to build a new one. Maybe remodel the snack stand and get better seats, little things like that. I personally like to use the Greyhound on occation beacuse the prices are inexpensive (that is when my own car breaks down). Also, I noticed the other stops in the bigger cities on my way to Detroit were no bigger or neccesarily better than OKC's. The only real complaint I had with any of the stops were that there were no other food options around and I had to pay $3 for a dry overcooked Jalapeno Sausage in Downtown Chicago when I had to stay there for 3 hours. I say just make nominal improvements, not elaborate renevations.

[kielaaron]

But as I said, (back to the thread), why do we as a city need to subsidize a business that really does nothing for us? It won't bring us any jobs, it won't even increase the number of people that utilize the service. I simply can't think of one reason to improve the station other than "it looks bad". Well, MANY buildings in that part of town look bad.. Why stop with the bus station? Or better yet, why start there?

Indeed, why start there? There are a multitude of facilities just in the downtown area that need attention. However, we have to prioritize what is beneficial to the area, and a privately-owned bus station is nowhere near deserving of fiscal attention.

Additional example: Here I have witnessed passionate discussion about the necessity for some new retail establishment to set us apart. What will a new mall do for OKC? Probably nothing more than vacate another establishment elsewhere in the metro.

We're fast approaching the centenntial and the 10th anniversary of the Murrah bombing. When media outlets are focusing on how OKC has grown, we want to show improvements to infrastructure and new attributes to the quality of lives. We should all support these seemingly "boring" municipal improvements and wait for the backbone of the city to grow to support all the luxuries we deem pertinent.

It just seems like everyone wants to drive down the street and point out every problem they see, and expect it to be developed. I truly hate bureaucratic models, but I think we should all acknowledge and/or admit that they are in control of most of our issues. It doesn't seem to me that any of us here have the capital to venture out and sculpt the differences we wish to see.

It's simply the greatest thing my drove into my head over and over: You cannot make people do what you want them to do. I've learned that rationale and compassionate communication accomplish a lot more than demands.

[windowphobe]

The first Union Bus Station went up in 1929; this incarnation thereof, says the Assessor's office, dates to 1941. It's probably fairly sound, if unappealing; a good facelift is probably all it really needs.

(Like I should talk.)

[okcpulse]

I was compelled to reply to this post, even though I've been busy repairing my workstation computer and installing Linux as a second operating system.

The bus station needs to be replaced. Not restored, not remodeled, but replaced. We are revamping the airport, the most used gateway into Oklahoma City. The Union Bus Station is the second most used gateway into our city (for this topic, highway travel is excluded).

In March of 1995, ten years ago, I traveled to Dallas on a Greyhound Bus. I didn't think much of our bus station when I left, other than a simple observation that it was an old facility. Upon my arrival in Dallas, their bus station was modern, clean, updated. No doubt the structure was not more than a few years old. Of course, it was larger and busier, serving the needs of a metropolitan area of 5 million people.

Our bus station does not need to be as large as the facility I used in Dallas, but it has outlive its usefulness and I was embarrassed after making comparisons, and that was a decade ago. Today, it's still the same old run down dump. It obviously does not recieve the funds needed for better maintenance or upgrading. A clean, modern, 21st Century facility is in order. If I recall, the city had previously made attempts in the late 1990's to relocate the station, but faced opposition from station employees. I may be mistaken, but I remember reading that in The Oklahoman in 1998.

We cannot leave any stone unturned in this city, nor any nook and cranny overlooked. This is what makes a big city a great one. We've swept through downtown, our inner city schools, our airport, and now our neighborhoods. City leaders cannot rest, or take a break... ever. Constantly raising the bar will keep Oklahoma City from suffering the way it did in the late 1980's/ early 1990's.

Continue the Renaissance!!!

[Proactive Volunteer]

I
We cannot leave any stone unturned in this city, nor any nook and cranny overlooked. This is what makes a big city a great one. We've swept through downtown, our inner city schools, our airport, and now our neighborhoods. City leaders cannot rest, or take a break... ever. Constantly raising the bar will keep Oklahoma City from suffering the way it did in the late 1980's/ early 1990's.

Continue the Renaissance!!!

I agree with you that we need to constantly be looking at ways to improve our city. I do feel that privately owned properties need to pull their own maintenance and updates. I personally do with my downtown business and feel other downtown property owners should to. Thus the Greyhound bus station should be renovated, face lifted, whatever by the current owner.

I agree with you that the downtown is on a major step forward....in certain areas. All of our entrances into the downtown need to be addressed. Buildings on private property need to be unboarded, cleaned up and put back into usage. Just cleaning up many of the properties, adding paint and general repairs will make a drastic improvement. Then we need to look at the next step of revitalization.

MAPS for Kids will address suburban schools as well as inner city schools and all of our elected City Officials are dedicated in seeing that the projects are done well.

Our neighborhoods need some major attention!! The City does not spend enough money on neighborhoods! We need to continue the CDBG funding, without cuts, for housing programs and for neighborhood leadership building. Many of the ailing neighborhoods in our city have no neighborhood association and need help in training potential neighborhood leaders. After you have strong leadership, revitalization tends to happen. Most of the schools that have sidewalks need them repaired or replaced! Our neighborhood parks need attention. OKC Beautiful through their Adopt-A-Park program have helped get over 100 city parks become adopted by schools, neighborhoods and businesses. However, funding sources need to be found to make the improvements that the adopters cannot afford. Most neighborhoods do not have sidewalks. This needs to be remedied.

There is never enough funding for the needs of the neighborhoods and parks.

Maybe the solution is MAPS for Neighborhoods!

[Patrick]

Maybe the solution is MAPS for Neighborhoods!

That has a nice ring to it! Mayor Cornett, are you listening?

MAPS for Neighborhoods (MAPS III) could focus on neighborhood parks, commmunity beautification (landscaping, public artwork, etc.), improving the appearance of our city gateways, planting more trees, adding a few new libraries for growing areas (far NW OKC really needs a new library....the closest one is the Village and Warr Acres), more streetscaping projects, creating an Asian Town Square in the Little Saigon area, creating a Hispanic Town Square in Capitol Hill, etc. etc.

Right now parts of our city really look like an eyesore from the highway. The southside is probably the worst. We could really spruce these areas up some.

[windowphobe]

Well, the library funding is more or less in place: a bond issue passed in 2000 started the cash flow for two new facilities and three upgrades, which will be constructed between now and 2010. The two new libraries are in far northwest OKC, as requested, and in southwest OKC in Cleveland County (which perforce puts it into the Pioneer system). Upgrades are planned at Ralph Ellison, Capitol Hill and Southern Oaks.

http://www.metrolibrary.org/LibNewsA...ion-Passes.htm

[Patrick]

Thanks windowphobe for the information. I completely forgot that the bond issue was covering this. New libraries on the far NW side of the city are sure needed. There are a lot of homes around the NW 122nd and Rockwell area......the closest library is ????? I guess either Warr Acres or the Village! Quite a ways from there.