University Town Center

[BoulderSooner]

petition thrown out ... arena and TIF are back on ...

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCase...r=CV-2024-3374

for now .. this will get appealed to the oklahoma supreme court

[onthestrip]

petition thrown out ... arena and TIF are back on ...

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCase...r=CV-2024-3374

for now .. this will get appealed to the oklahoma supreme court

My favorite rulings, that the people were clearly too stupid to understand this.

Looks like former OU athletic team manager came through for the university!

Look forward to the appeal.

[Tokkss]

Thank you God!! I’m am so hoping this development happens!

[Pete]

Judge rules petition insufficient to turn UNP entertainment district to public vote

https://www.oudaily.com/news/oklahom...a75a51ab6.html

[TornadoKegan]

Judge rules petition insufficient to turn UNP entertainment district to public vote

https://www.oudaily.com/news/oklahom...a75a51ab6.html

Even though the fight is not over yet. This is a step in the right direction don't let the NIMBYs win

[SouthOKC]

Even though the fight is not over yet. This is a step in the right direction don't let the NIMBYs win

Are you saying we shouldn't let the majority decide?

I guess it could be called NIMBY’s vs. Commies

[bison34]

Are you saying we shouldn't let the majority decide?

I guess it could be called NIMBY’s vs. Commies

They voted for their city council members...that is our government form.

[Rover]

Are you saying we shouldn't let the majority decide?

I guess it could be called NIMBY’s vs. Commies

First, you assume you are in the majority when you have no idea. Secondly, if they voted it still wouldn't represent a majority as few people actually vote.. way less than 50% of eligible voters . And finally, we are a representative democracy, not an absolute democracy.

[PhiAlpha]

"Word on the street".. The REAL word on the street is that Elon Musk is building the worlds largest sports training facility in Norman and will include a 100,000 seat arena for OU because Norman deserves it.

See what I did there.

I heard Drake is opening for the announcement.

[TornadoKegan]

I heard Drake is opening for the announcement.

Bro what?

[SouthOKC]

First, you assume you are in the majority when you have no idea. Secondly, if they voted it still wouldn't represent a majority as few people actually vote.. way less than 50% of eligible voters . And finally, we are a representative democracy, not an absolute democracy.

I never assumed anything. I said let the people decide….

Why would you be against that? That might be the most telling part of your statement.

[SouthOKC]

Obviously, the people were not happy with how those council members betrayed their trust.

[Jersey Boss]

First, you assume you are in the majority when you have no idea. Secondly, if they voted it still wouldn't represent a majority as few people actually vote.. way less than 50% of eligible voters . And finally, we are a representative democracy, not an absolute democracy.

Thanks for the civics lesson. Unfortunatly you neglected to mention the initiative petition as a legitimate check and balance on the City Council.
It exists for a reason, contrary to the insinuations that it is some sort of radical avenue. Norman has a culture of voting on issues themselves such as utility increases or franchise agreements.

[Jersey Boss]

My favorite rulings, that the people were clearly too stupid to understand this.

Looks like former OU athletic team manager came through for the university!

Look forward to the appeal.

Judge Virgin has a pro developer, anti petition history.https://www.news9.com/story/5e627d05...to-vote-on-tif

[BoulderSooner]

Thanks for the civics lesson. Unfortunatly you neglected to mention the initiative petition as a legitimate check and balance on the City Council.
It exists for a reason, contrary to the insinuations that it is some sort of radical avenue. Norman has a culture of voting on issues themselves such as utility increases or franchise agreements.

sure but don't write a petition that is misleading ..

[bison34]

Judge Virgin has a pro developer, anti petition history.https://www.news9.com/story/5e627d05...to-vote-on-tif

Nothing in that article says either of those things...did you mean to link another article?

[SoonerDave]

I had posted a reply earlier on this but somehow managed to post it to the wrong thread #sigh.

I'm not a Norman resident, so I don't have a dog in this particular fight *directly*, I just hope to see something positive for OU.

I was curious about the ruling by the judge, so I read it, which basically just said he agreed with the arguments from the petitioner that the "gist" of the petition to bring it to a vote was invalid....

...so I ended up reading the arguments of the petitioner.

Bottom line, it appears there were/are several built in "balances" in the TIF regarding duration, use of funds, and city liability for shortfalls (there is none), but none of these limits were mentioned in the "gist" of the petition. The way the petition was apparently worded (which I did not see) left an impression that the TIF plan was essentially unchecked. That certainly leaned into the concerns of those who opposed the project.

It seems to me that those opposed to the project may have fumbled the ball by not adding a few simple sentences to their petition outlining those limitations. Since one of their leaders/focals asserted that they believe everyone who signed the petition knew what it was about, adding those few sentences would have been an easy "failsafe."

I was also very surprised to learn that even amid the media coverage, there were only 325 signatures on that petition. The city felt they could challenge the validity of many of those, but waived their option to argue on those grounds and argue exclusively on the validity of the petition as it was written. And that basis was good enough, apparently.

My understanding is that this is an 80/20 private/public funding split, and with the duration limits and essentially no risk to the city of Norman, this seems a pretty decent package to put forward. In a very, very small way, it reminds me of what Jerry Jones wanted the city of Dallas to do to keep the Dallas Cowboys and put them back in the old Cotton Bowl after throwing something like $1B in renovations and a huge retail shopping district, but there was intense local sentiment against helping a billionaire fund a sports franchise, so they nixed it, and the Cowboys moved to Arlington.

I understand the concerns of the opposition here, but this seems a pretty reasonable package IMO. I think an appeal is going to have tough sledding going upstream.

[PhiAlpha]

Bro what?

Inside joke on the OU twitter/message boards from the post Lincoln Riley coaching search

[PhiAlpha]

Obviously, the people were not happy with how those council members betrayed their trust.

You can find a handful of people unhappy about every decision that any governmental body makes.

[Jersey Boss]

I had posted a reply earlier on this but somehow managed to post it to the wrong thread #sigh.

I'm not a Norman resident, so I don't have a dog in this particular fight *directly*, I just hope to see something positive for OU.

I was curious about the ruling by the judge, so I read it, which basically just said he agreed with the arguments from the petitioner that the "gist" of the petition to bring it to a vote was invalid....

...so I ended up reading the arguments of the petitioner.

Bottom line, it appears there were/are several built in "balances" in the TIF regarding duration, use of funds, and city liability for shortfalls (there is none), but none of these limits were mentioned in the "gist" of the petition. The way the petition was apparently worded (which I did not see) left an impression that the TIF plan was essentially unchecked. That certainly leaned into the concerns of those who opposed the project.

It seems to me that those opposed to the project may have fumbled the ball by not adding a few simple sentences to their petition outlining those limitations. Since one of their leaders/focals asserted that they believe everyone who signed the petition knew what it was about, adding those few sentences would have been an easy "failsafe."

I was also very surprised to learn that even amid the media coverage, there were only 325 signatures on that petition. The city felt they could challenge the validity of many of those, but waived their option to argue on those grounds and argue exclusively on the validity of the petition as it was written. And that basis was good enough, apparently.

My understanding is that this is an 80/20 private/public funding split, and with the duration limits and essentially no risk to the city of Norman, this seems a pretty decent package to put forward. In a very, very small way, it reminds me of what Jerry Jones wanted the city of Dallas to do to keep the Dallas Cowboys and put them back in the old Cotton Bowl after throwing something like $1B in renovations and a huge retail shopping district, but there was intense local sentiment against helping a billionaire fund a sports franchise, so they nixed it, and the Cowboys moved to Arlington.

I understand the concerns of the opposition here, but this seems a pretty reasonable package IMO. I think an appeal is going to have tough sledding going upstream.

I don't know where you got the information of "only 325 signatures on that petition". You are off by >10k.

[SouthOKC]

You can find a handful of people unhappy about every decision that any governmental body makes.

You’re correct. However, I fail to see the correlation in this situation. The people voted out those most responsible for the decision. Now there is a large group asking for a public vote…

[bison34]

You’re correct. However, I fail to see the correlation in this situation. The people voted out those most responsible for the decision. Now there is a large group asking for a public vote…

The fact the petitioners used basically lies to get people scared into signing it is why it was overturned. Not that they didn't know what they were signing. Petitioners resorted to insane fallacies to get people on their side.

Not everything needs to go to a public vote, especially when you have to lie to get people on your side.