Will Rogers World Airport

[no1cub17]

I’ve long wondered if there could be a market for NE/Europe connections through Air Canada. 1x/daily on an E175 or RJ900, arriving in YYZ in the evening and timed for Europe connections. No need for immigration since that they have pre-clearance.

What do you mean by "NE"? Like the northeast US? AC wouldn't be able to sell a connection from OKC to another Murrcan city connecting in YYZ, that is illegal and would be cabotage.

Definitely OKC-YYZ-Europe/India would be an intriguing option if AC ever took the plunge.

I'm not sure what your last bit about pre-clearance means? Preclearance is when you go through US customs/immigration in Canada prior to boarding your flight to the US, so you do go through US immigration, you just do it in the country of departure.

[BG918]

What do you mean by "NE"? Like the northeast US? AC wouldn't be able to sell a connection from OKC to another Murrcan city connecting in YYZ, that is illegal and would be cabotage.

Definitely OKC-YYZ-Europe/India would be an intriguing option if AC ever took the plunge.

I'm not sure what your last bit about pre-clearance means? Preclearance is when you go through US customs/immigration in Canada prior to boarding your flight to the US, so you do go through US immigration, you just do it in the country of departure.

Meaning if you are connecting in Toronto you don’t have to go through customs. You’re correct though you wouldn’t be able to fly to Boston through Toronto but could fly to other Canadian cities in the NE and especially Europe. There is also likely some O&D. Not sure enough with connecting flights to fill a daily RJ.

[HOT ROD]

wouldn't really "need" preclearance on the return in YYZ to OKC since OKC has it's own Federal Inspection Service/Customs now. I do think they'd still have to do customs in YYZ for the outbound connection to Europe though, regardless what OKC has. Would be interesting to see the setup.

But this is a great article that does indeed show the OKC airport is going after more than 'just' Mexican tourist destinations. It'd be awesome if OKC could get a daily AC regional jet to start! I think even the current YYZ-OKC traffic might be enough to at least half-way support a daily RJ. Add in YVR (Vancouver) after Toronto-OKC is established and that's icing on the Canadian cake (connections to both Europe{YYZ} and Asia{YVR}). I'd also think a OKC-YYC (Calgary) on WestJet could work for 2X weekly.

We could sort of become the next Austin in many ways if we can pull this off.

[bison34]

wouldn't really "need" preclearance on the return in YYZ to OKC since OKC has it's own Federal Inspection Service/Customs now. I do think they'd still have to do customs in YYZ for the outbound connection to Europe though, regardless what OKC has. Would be interesting to see the setup.

But this is a great article that does indeed show the OKC airport is going after more than 'just' Mexican tourist destinations. It'd be awesome if OKC could get a daily AC regional jet to start! I think even the current YYZ-OKC traffic might be enough to at least half-way support a daily RJ. Add in YVR (Vancouver) after Toronto-OKC is established and that's icing on the Canadian cake (connections to both Europe{YYZ} and Asia{YVR}). I'd also think a OKC-YYC (Calgary) on WestJet could work for 2X weekly.

We could sort of become the next Austin in many ways if we can pull this off.

Getting unsustainable routes helps no one, and likely would lead to more airlines not coming here. Go after routes you know will work, show airlines these routes can work, and more will come in time.

We just need more realistic routes (BOS, SFO, EWR, Cancun (most likely)) before going after, right now, pie in the sky routes.

[Laramie]

We have two major airports in Oklahoma; Will Rogers International & Tulsa International: both airports could alternate flights to Mexico; avoiding having to use DFW--a 204 mile stretch. This would allow for a 91 mile turnpike drive between our two major cities.

[bison34]

We have two major airports in Oklahoma; Will Rogers International & Tulsa International: both airports could alternate flights to Mexico; avoiding having to use DFW--a 204 mile stretch. This would allow for a 91 mile turnpike drive between our two major cities.

To be fair, Tulsa is why OKC doesn't have a great route tree. Very few states Oklahoma's size have 2 cities this close with 2 airports of marginally-similar size. They cannibalize each other.

[scottk]

To be fair, Tulsa is why OKC doesn't have a great route tree. Very few states Oklahoma's size have 2 cities this close with 2 airports of marginally-similar size. They cannibalize each other.

Closest comparison I can think of is Austin and San Antonio. Their airports are about 75 miles a part, BUT both do have larger populations and a different business sector that merits non-stop destinations.
Maybe Des Moines and Omaha too hurt each other for routes?

I think DFW with its American Airlines hub and its proximity to OKC hurts us more than TUL International. I would compare this to Colorado Springs Airport in close proximity to United's Hub at Denver.

[Richard at Remax]

OKC better not waste any time when it comes to the (assuming) flight to Mexico. They will have a pretty decent draw area from OKC, Tulsa, Wichita south, and east/western OK. It will be critical to provide some kind of initial incentives to make the price worthwhile for people to drive here. I can see a seasonal 2x weekly flight being very successful.

[gopokes88]

Closest comparison I can think of is Austin and San Antonio. Their airports are about 75 miles a part, BUT both do have larger populations and a different business sector that merits non-stop destinations.
Maybe Des Moines and Omaha too hurt each other for routes?

I think DFW with its American Airlines hub and its proximity to OKC hurts us more than TUL International. I would compare this to Colorado Springs Airport in close proximity to United's Hub at Denver.

And they're tiny airports compared to DFW and IAH. AA tried to even make Austin a focus city and had to scrap those plans.
Exact same thing as OKC-TUL just bigger.

[gopokes88]

Closest comparison I can think of is Austin and San Antonio. Their airports are about 75 miles a part, BUT both do have larger populations and a different business sector that merits non-stop destinations.
Maybe Des Moines and Omaha too hurt each other for routes?

I think DFW with its American Airlines hub and its proximity to OKC hurts us more than TUL International. I would compare this to Colorado Springs Airport in close proximity to United's Hub at Denver.

Plus Lawton and Stillwater which both have daily flights to Dallas.

OKC just needs to continue to grow and the rest will take care of itself.

[mugofbeer]

I may have missed mention of it but it appears the Dallas north suburb of McKinney is on it's way to the start of commercial airline services. A proposal for a 3 gate terminal with future expansion to 5 gates is being brought forward. <Dallas Business Journal>

[gopokes88]

Everything I've heard is Delta connecting to hubs (Atlanta, Salt Lake, MSP) and a low cost carrier like frontier/spirit/etc

[HOT ROD]

We have two major airports in Oklahoma; Will Rogers International & Tulsa International: both airports could alternate flights to Mexico; avoiding having to use DFW--a 204 mile stretch. This would allow for a 91 mile turnpike drive between our two major cities.

Larry um, no. Tulsa surely would NOT agree to this so why should OKC even propose it, when we're the bigger airport/market/city/metro? Doing this strategy further implies that OKC would not be ready for 2nd tier status/amenities - if we 'had' to always depend upon or share with our little sister to make anything work. ... Further, this was tried with Great Plains Airlines (based out of Tulsa) - IMO, it didn't work because there was no clear main hub (Tulsa wanted East routes, game 'some' western to OKC). It would have worked imo if GP chose OKC for all hub operations, capitalizing on its larger market/city, with Tulsa focusing on point-to-point where demand existed. The 'shared hub' theory failed and hsould be a lesson along with no other state/city pair does thos (no SEA-SPO sharing, no SF-LA sharing, no DFW-HOU sharing, no DEN-CLS sharing etc).

OKC needs to stand on its own in order to succeed, Tulsa is catchment if they want to be.

[Laramie]

We just lost 300 jobs at the Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center: https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma...d-by-rhetoric/

This will devastate our population growth . . .

[HOT ROD]

OKC better not waste any time when it comes to the (assuming) flight to Mexico. They will have a pretty decent draw area from OKC, Tulsa, Wichita south, and east/western OK. It will be critical to provide some kind of initial incentives to make the price worthwhile for people to drive here. I can see a seasonal 2x weekly flight being very successful.

@Bison - totally agree that we should start with what we know will work, by focusing on re-establishing the US hub network and point-to-point cities we previously had, and going after gateway cities. However, I am happy to see AC is interested in OKC to champion their possible expansion which would allow direct gateway to the world (since YYZ has worldwide access) in addition to being 'another' possible international nonstop for OKC.

@Richard. .. Totally agree on this. OKC needs to act fast to be first-to-market with this product. This will help 'establish' the market, particularly catchment as you mention; since OKC already has a very large hispanic community and a vacation market that will sustain at least 2X weekly flights to start. Incentivize it to make prices low (particularly for vacation destinations) and OKC would pull in catchment as well to further build the market.

What I would love to see is not only the probable international buildout in OKC, but also if we could re-establish flight(s) from Tulsa and perhaps other catchment in the region to feed the international (thather than relying only on them driving). Just imagine even if we had a CR2 regional jet daily OKC-TUL, THAT is what I truly want to see; a reconnection of the regional cities into OKC while providing enhanced options for the region with OKC as the focal point.

[HOT ROD]

We just lost 300 jobs at the Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center: https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma...d-by-rhetoric/

This will devastate our population growth . . .

They will hire more Larry. Trump is gung ho on rebuilding the FAA, some of those jobs are probably unnecessary or close-to-retirement. 300 jobs should not sink a city the size and diverse as OKC, although I do feel for those caught off-guard.

The notice (from KFOR) did said "termination during probationary period", indicating the possibility of re-hire (although 'furlough' or 'lay-off' instead of 'termination' would have been better terminology).

[bison34]

We just lost 300 jobs at the Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center: https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma...d-by-rhetoric/

This will devastate our population growth . . .

Devastate is a very strong word. Most will end up rehired, after they realize they made mistakes laying people off. Or find jobs at Tinker.

[Swake]

Devastate is a very strong word. Most will end up rehired, after they realize they made mistakes laying people off. Or find jobs at Tinker.

Tinker is about to be hit with deep layoffs as well.

[Laramie]

Devastate is a very strong word. Most will end up rehired, after they realize they made mistakes laying people off. Or find jobs at Tinker.

Thanks Swake about the potential cuts to Tinker AFB.

Damn right it is. Many of these workers will be rehired; but where, if they take jobs in OKC then this will affect the potential out-of-state hires OKC could get from places
like Texas, California, Kansas and Arkansas. Or they will find jobs in our most aggressive state like Texas to move south of the Red River.

Texas continues to raid Oklahoma of our talent pool.

[Laramie]

I will continue to say, get rid of this cocky attitude about Oklahoma's two airports working together on flights to Mexico where we could under cut DFW's strangle hold with the Mega DFW airport and Love Field's dominance over Oklahoma's two largest airports.

Tulsa IMO is ahead of OKC for flights to Mexico. It would be more substantiable if the two airports worked in tandem--which could peak interests in more international flights.

OKC's population growth will take a hit. You don't immediately recover from the lost of 300 good paying jobs.

[OKCTalker]

We just lost 300 jobs at the Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center: https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma...d-by-rhetoric/

This will devastate our population growth . . .

Clarification: This is not 300 employees at Monroney. It is 300 TOTAL FAA employees. From the KFOR story: "Many of those affected work in Oklahoma City at the FAA’s Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center, a hub for the agency’s training operations." The local number I've heard is around 100, and according to a recently-retired local FAA friend whose text messages have been blowing up, the group affected maintains ground-based navigational systems such as VORs, ILS approach systems, etc. Those systems must be maintained, and the training/skills are unique, so you can't take someone from the records division and have them inspect a remote NDB, nor can you just hire someone off the street. This could be a BDD, affecting primary & backup navigation systems, because not everything runs off of GPS - not by a long shot!

[bison34]

I will continue to say, get rid of this cocky attitude about Oklahoma's two airports working together on flights to Mexico where we could under cut DFW's strangle hold with the Mega DFW airport and Love Field's dominance over Oklahoma's two largest airports.

Tulsa IMO is ahead of OKC for flights to Mexico. It would be more substantiable if the two airports worked in tandem--which could peak interests in more international flights.

OKC's population growth will take a hit. You don't immediately recover from the lost of 300 good paying jobs.

What on earth are you blabbering about? Tulsa is 2 years behind OKC for flights. Their economy is years behind OKC, as is their population.

You're very doom and gloom on this, for no reason, and with less than zero basis. Lol. Your post is asinine.

[Plutonic Panda]

If they were to build an airport between Oklahoma City and Tulsa(Great Plains International) they should connect it with high speed rail on each end.

[Laramie]

If they were to build an airport between Oklahoma City and Tulsa(Great Plains International) they should connect it with high speed rail on each end.

Thank you Plutonic Panda.

High speed rail to Tonkawa, Oklahoma then you can serve the golden triangle of cities - Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Wichita.

[Laramie]

What on earth are you blabbering about? Tulsa is 2 years behind OKC for flights. Their economy is years behind OKC, as is their population.

You're very doom and gloom on this, for no reason, and with less than zero basis. Lol. Your post is asinine.

Bison, there are plenty of places you can graze in Oklahoma. Now let's come up with some suggestions to neutralize the affects of DFW and find some grazing spots for a super airport in Oklahoma.

BTW my brother and I just decided not plan anymore diving trips to Mexico and South America.