The NBA in OKC Megathread

[FritterGirl]

Once is enough, doncha think? Do we really need this in three threads now?

[Doug Loudenback]

FritterGirl is correct, David. I think that I already mentioned to you how double-posting is regarded ... triple-posting all the less.

I'm assuming that you will offer discussion on your views ... written words would be good. Then, some of us might even be able to persuade you, who can say?

[jbrown84]

Mr. Glover,

indeed we have not seen someone quoted (other than the mayor) as saying that if this fails, the Sonics don't come, but that is a very real possibility. Do we want to risk that?

You complain about schools and roads and bridges, yet we just passed a huge bond issue for roads, bridges, and parks, and Maps for Kids is ongoing.

[betts]

Community pride benefits

By Dick Hefton

Pro basketball doesn't hold any fascination for me. I can recall attending no more than a few Hornets games while they were temporarily based in our town, and then only as a guest of real fans and the more community-minded supporters. Nevertheless, I was greatly impressed with the positive impact the interlude had on community spirit as well as on our area economy. From this experience, it was clear that Central Oklahoma was enabled to test its ability and willingness to support a major league sports venue at relatively low cost. That fortuitous experience helped considerably to take the gamble out of enlarging our Ford Center, which will house a professional basketball program and enable our city to host many future conventions and other attractions that would otherwise go to larger metropolitan locations. With the advent of a new and permanent pro team, I don't expect to make much use of the expanded center. But what I do know is, my family and I can count on increased property values and more opportunities.

Community pride comes with the uplifted status a pro team brings. Pride may be an intangible benefit, but enhanced property values and a better business environment — producing more and better job opportunities — are direct and obvious.

The main objections to the question make it out to be some kind of subsidy for the already rich; and that the investment should be borne entirely by basketball fans. The economic reality of the matter, unfortunately, is that most every major league program is financed in like fashion and we happen to be lucky enough to be in the hunt for one of the limited franchises. And, we are so situated because we have a group of community-minded "rich” guys who are willing to bet a fortune on our collective community confidence.

Revenue bonds financed entirely by ticket sales or user fees alone aren't a practical approach and would likely require some kind of public obligation. A continuation of our already successful sales tax approach allows tourists and other visitors to help pay the bill. Furthermore, the argument that community improvements should be paid exclusively by users is a selective view that could be applied to parks, schools and other general services, all of which make for overall community betterment.

Central Oklahoma is enjoying favorable attention and envy nationwide because of our innovative approach to community development. A rising tide lifts all ships; community improvements improve everybody's well-being. Let's keep our community pride on the move. Vote yes on March 4.

Hefton, of Oklahoma City, is a former newspaper publisher and retired military official who has been active in chambers of commerce and industrial foundation work in Oklahoma.

[betts]

Questions and Answers with Jim Cowan

Q: The Bricktown Association's board of directors recently voted to endorse the March 4 sales tax vote to improve Ford Center. Why?

A: The Bricktown board voted to endorse the sales tax because of the huge economic role the Ford Center plays in the district year-around. From concerts to conventions, sporting events to Sesame Street, the Ford Center helps make Bricktown a destination.

Q: The new and improved Ford Center would include restaurants, clubs and family recreational areas. Won't these improvements be in competition with Bricktown merchants?

A: When you have in excess of 12,000 people attending an event at the Ford Center, it's hard for everyone to get into Bricktown. Not to mention that many people will go to Bricktown before or after an event, because they want the complete entertainment experience, not just a two-hour event.

Q: How much of an impact did the Hornets have on Bricktown during their two years in Oklahoma City?

A: The Hornets played a huge role in Bricktown. They brought business during the "off season.” November through February, Bricktown really appreciates business from the Ford Center, especially on weeknights.

Q: Is the absence of the NBA this winter having an impact on business?

A: Bricktown misses the NBA this year. The restaurants and clubs miss the extra people it brought, but we also miss the excitement it brought to the district. You never knew what players you would see walking the streets of Bricktown.

Staff Writer Steve Lackmeyer

[DavidGlover]

I wanted to put it where people were talking about it.

[metro]

As said above David, it doesn't help your cause (especially being a new member) to triple post the same exact thing. Just FYI.

[DavidGlover]

Doug Dawg was the one that suggested the posting places. I am new and just took his suggestion: this is his email to me, I apologize.

From Doug:
"Ok. I've thought about it and I don't know why it didn't occur to me
initially. Here's your solution ... post your thoughts (and you can even
embed your YouTube video) at OkcTalk where there is ongoing discussion
on this topic in at least three different threads. The one in which I
mentioned you last night (following the meeting) is
http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...s-meeting.html

Another is
http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...egathread.html
and another is
[url]http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/11945-why-i-am-voting-no.html[/ur"

[bornhere]

The Hornets played a huge role in Bricktown. They brought business during the "off season.” November through February, Bricktown really appreciates business from the Ford Center, especially on weeknights.

At least this resembles a legitimate reason for having the upgrade, although I'm not sure it's a good enough reason.

[betts]

Personally, if no one even mentioned the NBA, if we were just presented with the option to vote for an upgrade of the Ford Center, I'd vote for it. I'd like to see us remain competitive with Tulsa, Omaha and Kansas City (heck, even Wichita) in terms of the quality of our facility. As a city, we are in competition with other cities, whether we like it or not.

And, it's true that when people are deciding where to live or where to locate a business, schools are an important part of that decision. But, so are leisure time activities. We don't have an ocean or mountains, or even particularly attractive surrounds. So, we have to have more artificially created leisure time activiites. We have a really nice zoo, which is great, and I'm delighted that we're proceeding on our new "Central Park", we have a beaufiful baseball stadium (which hosts a private team and was paid for by public dollars, interestingly), we have a downtown art museum now and a nice new downtown public library. But, professional sports teams have an allure that it's hard to achieve with a really nice zoo, public library or art museum.

I'm all about improving our schools. I voted for MAPS for Kids. It has raised a lot more money than this tax proposal will....at least 5 times more. But part of having better schools is having better teachers. First of all, new teachers are young, and they like having more leisure time options (I know this, as my kids have all left or are leaving, because Oklahoma City is too "boring"). A lot of our graduates leave for Houston or Dallas, and it's about more than money, since we have such a low cost of living that the salary increases are probably virtually negated by the cost of living in those cities. Second of all, I believe having a more vibrant downtown will encourage more people to live in the city, near downtown. That improves the tax base, which is probably the most obvious way to improve schools.

[Karried]

betts, that's all so true ... what people aren't seeing is the big picture and the trickle down effect.

This shortsightedness is what is so frustrating to me!

'Build it and they will come' ... 'they' doesn't just mean NBA players!

It's all part of a bigger package which includes starting from the ground up and creating a major league city.

We have the great success of MAPS and the schools have seen much improvement but where's the national recognition that makes regular citizens take note and say, 'wow, that Oklahoma is the place to be!" ? 'I think I'll move my family or company there' ....

I haven't seen enough of that.

What was it that Shinn said when it was first proposed? " Oklahoma, Who?' Or something similar.....

I do know when traveling to other places while we hosted the Hornets, we were on the national radar... I couldn't bring up Oklahoma and not have people say things like, 'wow, that city is really supporting that team.. etc etc.. ' 'Looks fun there, I'm so surprised, never knew OK was like that..etc, etc..'

Now we have owners knocking on Our door, not the other way around and it kills me to think we might lose this opportunity.

[Doug Loudenback]

Though I got there late, I had a great time at Saturday morning's "Bricktown Bash." I've done a blog post already, Doug Dawgz Blog: NBA Bricktown Bash , but it is essentially duplicated below. Enjoy!

Following Thursday's Urban Neighbor's event at Cafe Do Brazil, on Saturday morning, 2/23/08, the venue for the Major League City campaign moved to the more fashionable (and roomier) Toby Keith's I Love This Bar and Grill in Bricktown! This post is largely eye-candy with a little tongue-in-cheek thrown in.



Click the links below for larger images

It was a cloudy cool day outside ...

Larger image: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_1.jpg


... but it was warm and lively inside ...

Larger image: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_2.jpg


Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_3.jpg


Roy Williams Talks to the media ...

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_4.jpg


... and to the assembled motley crew!

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_5.jpg


TV Camera Guys were there ...

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_6.jpg


... as were gorgeous ladies from the Oklahoma City Yard Dawgz ... Dancers!
Hoo-Ahh! Damit ... old guys get all the luck!

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_7.jpg


Left to right ... Brittany, Kamwin, and Tesh

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_8.jpg


Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49..._2_23_08_9.jpg


Hey, wait a minute ... I forgot ... some would say (wrongly)
that Doug Dawg is an old guy, so that would include me! Most excellent!

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...2_23_08_9a.jpg


After being dazzled by all the above, David Glover jumps
the "No" ship, signs the big letter to the millionaire Commish, puts
his arm around him, and says, "I will love you till the day I die." *

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...2_23_08_10.jpg

* Just kidding. He was there, cordially arguing his cause
to the end to anyone who would listen.
Important public service announcement: No media reports of suicides were made during this period of time
ala the movie Airplane.

And then there was this guy, in the midst of having a serious wardrobe identity crisis ...

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...2_23_08_12.jpg



Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...2_23_08_13.jpg


... but the drawing for a prize resulted in this fine young
lady getting an Okc jersey ... uh, make that a dress ...

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...2_23_08_14.jpg


Here she is with her proud mama ...

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...2_23_08_15.jpg


And, as I depart the premises, a good time was had by all!

Larger pic: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...2_23_08_16.jpg


And, yes, YES is all that there is!

[betts]

LOVE that David Stern came to the party! That was pretty funny.

[bornhere]

where's the national recognition that makes regular citizens take note and say, 'wow, that Oklahoma is the place to be!" ? 'I think I'll move my family or company there' ....

That would be "Right to Work," the chamber initiative that put Oklahoma on the map, created a corporate utopia that attracted all the Fortune 500 companies and created quality, high-paying jobs for every Oklahoman.

Well, I take everything back. This clearly proves we're a sophisticated major league city ready to take our rightful place among -- whatever other places people dress like this.

[Doug Loudenback]

Sorry, bornhere (as was I ... I assume you mean Okc) but all your comment reflects is that you've got a stereotyped notion of how people who are having fun should look, in your vision of that world. Tie, suit, tuxedo, what? I gather from your comment that the images posted are not suitable to you in the context of just having fun.

What's your problem? Can't you accept just plain fun dress as "anything goes?" Or do you have a definition for that in your scheme as for how everything should be "just so?

What is it the "sophisticated" dress that you would prefer everyone wear in this context? No shorts? No mismatched shorts/top? What is your "definition" of how these people should have been dressed to be "sophisticated?"

And how did you get to become the judge over everyone else in this regard?

[DVDFreaker]

Question: Do you know what time the voting will start?

[FritterGirl]

Question: Do you know what time the voting will start?

I'm pretty sure that the hours for this special election will be the same as on any other election day, 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.

Thanks for all the great photos Doug. It looks like a good time was had by all. As for Bornhere's comments, I took them as being rather tongue in cheek, and not at all serious.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm pretty sure that the hours for this special election will be the same as on any other election day, 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.

Thanks for all the great photos Doug. It looks like a good time was had by all. As for Bornhere's comments, I took them as being rather tongue in cheek, and not at all serious.

Sorry about that if so ... the irrelevant discussion about right to work caused me to think otherwise ... I'm not that great about reading cleverness into things on the internet when its not expressly said to be so by the author ...

[bornhere]

I wasn't the one who chose to frame this in terms of propelling Oklahoma City into some prestigious 'tier of elite cities.'

I think the photo helps highlight the difference between the illusion (Oklahoma City will become a sophisticated megalopolis standing shoulder to shoulder with the great cities of the world) and the reality (we gettin' us a baskeebaw team, Uncle Jed!).

As for Right to Work, well, that's another of those Chamber initiatives that was going to be a crossroads, going to be a huge boost to the economy, going to fix everything... and what was the result?

Any time the chamber offers to do me a favor, I look to see which cranky old dude in Nichols Hills actually wants it, and why.

[Doug Loudenback]

I wasn't the one who chose to frame this in terms of propelling Oklahoma City into some prestigious 'tier of elite cities.'

I think the photo helps highlight the difference between the illusion (Oklahoma City will become a sophisticated megalopolis standing shoulder to shoulder with the great cities of the world) and the reality (we gettin' us a baskeebaw team, Uncle Jed!).

As for Right to Work, well, that's another of those Chamber initiatives that was going to be a crossroads, going to be a huge boost to the economy, going to fix everything... and what was the result?

Any time the chamber offers to do me a favor, I look to see which cranky old dude in Nichols Hills actually wants it, and why.

Frittergirl was apparently wrong about your tongue-in-cheekness, I guess. And I was not, bornhere. But, as you seem to express superior knowledge of how "we" should be and look and dress whether we are at play or not, I'm sure that I and every member of this forum, and beyond, will benefit by the education that you will deign to give us, especially to those who are not nearly as enlightened as you, and even while we humbly strive to be worthy enough to receive your wisdom.

Since your comment was in reply to an image in a post I made, and therefore by inference ipso facto to something I said, would you kindly point me to where it was that I said anything like "tier of elite cities?"

And whether Right to Work did or didn't help with Oklahoma's/Okc's economy, could you kindly indicate how that relates to the questions being discussed in this particular thread?

Thanks in advance, bornhere ... that name means that you were born in Oklahoma City, right?

[bornhere]

But, as you seem to express superior knowledge of how "we" should be and look and dress whether we are at play or not, I'm sure that I and every member of this forum, and beyond, will benefit by the education that you will deign to give us, especially to those who are not nearly as enlightened as you, and even while we humbly strive to be worthy enough to receive your wisdom.

You're doing fine so far. Really.

Since your comment was in reply to an image in a post I made, and therefore by inference ipso facto to something I said, would you kindly point me to where it was that I said anything like "tier of elite cities?"

It may not have been you. But there have obviously been references, which everyone here has read or should have read, to our being among 'the elite NBA cities' and avoiding the '2nd level stigma' and being in the 'first tier of cities.' All of which is marketing hype, of course.

And whether Right to Work did or didn't help with Oklahoma's/Okc's economy, could you kindly indicate how that relates to the questions being discussed in this particular thread?

Because it's yet another example of something which was touted to the citizens of Oklahoma City – and of the state as a whole – as an initiative which would boost Oklahoma's economy and national standing, but which in reality was being pushed because one person wanted it.

This time it's three or four people, but the principle is the same, and it's a technique the chamber has used since at least the seventies to push projects like this.

Like I said, every time the chamber wants to do me a favor, I want to know which cranky old dude in Nichols Hills wants it and why.

that name means that you were born in Oklahoma City, right?

Right. Born here and live here, not in Seattle or California or some other godless wasteland of pro sports heretics. As strange as it may seem, it is possible to have been born here and still not be thoroughly brainwashed by forty-odd years of 'must... obey... chamber...' indoctrination.

[Doug Loudenback]

You're doing fine so far. Really.

It may not have been you. But there have obviously been references, which everyone here has read or should have read, to our being among 'the elite NBA cities' and avoiding the '2nd level stigma' and being in the 'first tier of cities.' All of which is marketing hype, of course.

Because it's yet another example of something which was touted to the citizens of Oklahoma City – and of the state as a whole – as an initiative which would boost Oklahoma's economy and national standing, but which in reality was being pushed because one person wanted it.

This time it's three or four people, but the principle is the same, and it's a technique the chamber has used since at least the seventies to push projects like this.

Like I said, every time the chamber wants to do me a favor, I want to know which cranky old dude in Nichols Hills wants it and why.

Right. Born here and live here, not in Seattle or California or some other godless wasteland of pro sports heretics. As strange as it may seem, it is possible to have been born here and still not be thoroughly brainwashed by forty-odd years of 'must... obey... chamber...' indoctrination.

All that said, we really ought to be able to get along. But I still fail to see the connection between the principles/ideas involved with March 4 vote and your apparent dislike of the Chamber. The way it sounds, that dislike is fueling your attitude concerning the arena proposition at hand.

Would you break apart your anti-chamber feelings/notions and then say what you specifically or generally don't like the March 4 vote, on the merits of the issue, without involving your notions about the Chamber?

[Slivermoon]

Looks like it was a good crowd. Sorry I missed it.

[Doug Loudenback]

A lengthy and good article is at Local News | Oklahoma City seeks a Sonic boom | Seattle Times Newspaper . It mentions Hornets Central , the Okc based Hornets & Sonics website, and quotes Patrick Nelson, co-founder. It's actually one of the better articles I've read on the Oklahoma City perspective.


Also: the expected pro-March 4 editorial in the Oklahoman, well written: NewsOK.com Article

[jbrown84]

But there have obviously been references, which everyone here has read or should have read, to our being among 'the elite NBA cities' and avoiding the '2nd level stigma' and being in the 'first tier of cities.' All of which is marketing hype, of course.

You honestly don't see the difference between Albuquerque and Phoenix? Houston and El Paso? Nobody's saying major-league teams are the only thing that get us there, but having a team and a nice, fully finished arena, are a huge stepping stone.


And if you really think that only 3 or 4 people want this (or Right to Work for that matter), then you are severely out of touch.