2025 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread

[BG918]

So just looking at some cities that I would put in our lane (Omaha, des Moines, grand rapids, Louisville) and their route maps, I found something obvious but interesting.

Each one of those above have nonstop connections to 9-12 airports in Florida alone. We have 3, and right now they are mostly seasonal. I don't have any rhyme or reason on why oklahomans don't want to go to Florida, but it was eye opening.

Those are all upper Midwest cities with significantly colder winters so maybe more people go to Florida for warm weather during the winter months? Also many Oklahomans (and people in the South in general) go to the FL Panhandle for vacation, and many either drive or fly to Destin on Allegiant. An Allegiant nonstop to Gulf Shores would likely do well in the summer - they are starting this route from XNA, maybe OKC/TUL will eventually be added

[Celebrator]

So just looking at some cities that I would put in our lane (Omaha, des Moines, grand rapids, Louisville) and their route maps, I found something obvious but interesting.

Each one of those above have nonstop connections to 9-12 airports in Florida alone. We have 3, and right now they are mostly seasonal. I don't have any rhyme or reason on why oklahomans don't want to go to Florida, but it was eye opening.

Since moving here, I have noticed that it seems to me more Oklahomans go to AZ over FL. I think that is true from here and to the West. We are kind of the dividing line for the nation, culturally, where people vacation in FL more than AZ. Completely anecdotal, but have noticed it in the last 15 years. The flights to say, Orlando and Phoenix are about the same, but the drive seems like a much easier shot to AZ, so perhaps it has just grown over the years as the preferred vacation destination from FL. Someone in the industry has hard numbers on that and it would they would be interesting to see. I mean, how many more times has OU and OSU been sent to bowl games in AZ versus FL? It seems to me more often to AZ. Anyway, high leisure numbers to FL definitely generate traffic for even small cities in the midwest and east where FL demand seems insatiable!

[gopokes88]

New pax record set for 2024.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/will-r...strong-economy

https://www.okenergytoday.com/2025/0...rew-5-in-2024/

Air service enhancements played a key role this year, with United Airlines increasing service to Chicago and Houston, Frontier Airlines adding more departures to Las Vegas and Denver, Southwest adding more frequency to Nashville, Orlando, and Las Vegas, and American Airlines increasing service to Charlotte, Dallas, and seasonal service to Miami.

[Anonymous.]

Dallas is our problem. We will never get the convenient non-stops because we are too close. A lot of Oklahomans drive to Dallas for cheaper/efficient flight paths. People here are used to driving everywhere so a 2.5 hour straight shot isn't a big deal. And many people know someone in Dallas where they can store a vehicle and get a ride to the airport.

If airlines required home address as part of the booking process, they could probably better see where passengers are truly "departing" from.

[gopokes88]

Dallas is our problem. We will never get the convenient non-stops because we are too close. A lot of Oklahomans drive to Dallas for cheaper/efficient flight paths. People here are used to driving everywhere so a 2.5 hour straight shot isn't a big deal. And many people know someone in Dallas where they can store a vehicle and get a ride to the airport.

If airlines required home address as part of the booking process, they could probably better see where passengers are truly "departing" from.

They can via credit cards payments and loyalty programs. They have good data

[bison34]

Dallas is our problem. We will never get the convenient non-stops because we are too close. A lot of Oklahomans drive to Dallas for cheaper/efficient flight paths. People here are used to driving everywhere so a 2.5 hour straight shot isn't a big deal. And many people know someone in Dallas where they can store a vehicle and get a ride to the airport.

If airlines required home address as part of the booking process, they could probably better see where passengers are truly "departing" from.

It's a catch 22. If airlines respected OKC like they do Grand Rapids or Louisville, then we would get better routes and not have to drive to DFW. But because they don't, we have to drive to DFW, so it hurts OKC's numbers.

[Anonymous.]

They can via credit cards payments and loyalty programs. They have good data

I would love to see the data of how many OKC billing addressed credit cards are purchasing departing flights out of Dallas. Maybe the OKC airport can do a survey of their own here.

But I suppose if the airlines can see OKC people taking Dallas departures, then they don't have much incentive to remedy that because they are obviously getting the seats sold.

[BG918]

It's a catch 22. If airlines respected OKC like they do Grand Rapids or Louisville, then we would get better routes and not have to drive to DFW. But because they don't, we have to drive to DFW, so it hurts OKC's numbers.

They won't "respect" OKC if the data shows a good number of travelers are driving to DFW. One of the largest and busiest airports in the world is a 2.5-3 hour drive from metro OKC, you can literally fly anywhere in the U.S. and to 4 other continents from there. You're not going to see catchment from east of OKC since those travelers will use TUL, and there is very little population density west of OKC. The only things that overcome that are 1) increased population growth, 2) business connections and 3) tourism.

[ComeOnBenjals!]

Purely anecdotal. Purely conjecture. But I would suspect there are fewer business travelers coming to and from OKC than a lot of those cities because of the relative lack of larger corporations here, Omaha for example has six Fortune 500 headquarters and 4 more in the 500-1000 range.

Final anecdotal point is I think a lot of Oklahomans, when they "travel" they drive to a lake or maybe as far as Colorado or the Gulf coast. I just feel like fewer people in OKC than elsewhere take bigger trips by plane to farther locations, which may be a function of lower incomes. I may be off on that, just a hunch.

I think you’re spot on. Smaller amount of F1000s than comparable cities on the list, and in turn lower income. DFW is a humongous magnet as well.

As a poorer state, I feel a lot of Oklahomans would rather drive 6+ hours and not pay for a flight.

Fortunately, OKC is experiencing strong population growth, which can balance out these issues.

[scottk]

I would love to see the data of how many OKC billing addressed credit cards are purchasing departing flights out of Dallas. Maybe the OKC airport can do a survey of their own here.

But I suppose if the airlines can see OKC people taking Dallas departures, then they don't have much incentive to remedy that because they are obviously getting the seats sold.

We fly Southwest..a lot...and were disappointed when SWA discontinued OKC-DAL Love Field a few years after the Wright Amendment ended and it really opened up where you could fly from Dallas Love, and since Southwest controlled 90% of the gates at Love Field, you could find some really cheap flights. At the time we were told the reason the OKC route was ended was due to limited gate capacity at Love Field, and the OKC-DAL route was used primarily for connections/pass throughs and not a final stop in Dallas. In other words when a SWA plane landed from OKC, it was transferring the majority of passengers to other flights from Love which was not an efficient operation for SWA's route planning and limited gates at Love Field. From my perspective, Houston Hobby has become the go to pass through for OKC Southwest flights as many flights are routed through Hobby if not a direct destination already served by OKC. We also rate compare with ICT in Wichita and TUL on Southwest and sometimes you can get an east coast flight from Tulsa for a few hundred dollars less round trip on SWA than you can for a similar route from OKC.

Since the OKC to Love Field route ended, we will still rate compare our final destination with OKC and DAL, if Love Field can save us a significant amount, we will drive the three hours to Dallas. Plus as mentioned above we can fly direct to many more destinations from Dallas Love than OKC, which may allow us to actually end up at our destination quicker without having to catch a connecting flight elsewhere.

We have many friends that fly American Airlines and will also rate compare, and will drive to DFW Airport for significant savings, especially if they are flying international on American and can land a direct flight from DFW to their destination.

It comes down of course to timing, but if you can save hundreds (and sometimes even a few thousand if you are traveling with multiple people for a vacation to a distant location) the three hour drive to DFW or Love Field is worth it.

[Jeepnokc]

It comes down of course to timing, but if you can save hundreds (and sometimes even a few thousand if you are traveling with multiple people for a vacation to a distant location) the three hour drive to DFW or Love Field is worth it.

Similarly, I have a lot of friends that cruise and will only go out of Galveston because they can drive their family there instead of spend the money on airfare. One plane ticket isn't generally worth the savings but when you multiply that for a family of four or five...it adds up. People will drive to save the money whether it is to DFW for a cheaper flight or avoid flying at all because it is only a 6-8 hour drive.

[Soonerinfiniti]

A big draw to driving to DFW is non-stop flights. We have had several nightmare connections in the past year. To us, its not the lower cost, its the lack of possibility of delays....

[gopokes88]

I would love to see the data of how many OKC billing addressed credit cards are purchasing departing flights out of Dallas. Maybe the OKC airport can do a survey of their own here.

But I suppose if the airlines can see OKC people taking Dallas departures, then they don't have much incentive to remedy that because they are obviously getting the seats sold.

Also towns like Ardmore. Without Dallas, OKC captures.

[gopokes88]

Similarly, I have a lot of friends that cruise and will only go out of Galveston because they can drive their family there instead of spend the money on airfare. One plane ticket isn't generally worth the savings but when you multiply that for a family of four or five...it adds up. People will drive to save the money whether it is to DFW for a cheaper flight or avoid flying at all because it is only a 6-8 hour drive.

I know tons of people that make the drive all the way down to Seaside like twice a year. 1,000 mile drive, it's nothing to them. It's so deeply cultural.

[BG918]

I know tons of people that make the drive all the way down to Seaside like twice a year. 1,000 mile drive, it's nothing to them. It's so deeply cultural.

We go there every Labor Day and take the Allegiant flight to Destin. Even with the hour drive from Destin to Seaside I can leave OK in the early afternoon and be walking on the beach before dinner.

Though it is nice that we can drive to fantastic beaches or world-class ski resorts in a day, not too many places can you say that.

[bison34]

Cities like Providence, Milwaukee, Richmond, all have huge, massive cities with global airports within 2 or so hours. Yet they have much better route trees than OKC.

Lets quit giving those whose job it is to recruit new routes to the airport a pass. Heck, Hartford is getting a JetBlue flight to JFK. Like, a flight that is less than 3 hours on a train (it is like, from OKC to Ardmore, distance-wise). I don't want to hear excuses. In the Zoo thread, people are raking them over the coals for not doing their jobs.

[CPin405]

Cities like Providence, Milwaukee, Richmond, all have huge, massive cities with global airports within 2 or so hours. Yet they have much better route trees than OKC.

Lets quit giving those whose job it is to recruit new routes to the airport a pass. Heck, Hartford is getting a JetBlue flight to JFK. Like, a flight that is less than 3 hours on a train (it is like, from OKC to Ardmore, distance-wise). I don't want to hear excuses. In the Zoo thread, people are raking them over the coals for not doing their jobs.

Geeze, I don’t think our airport will ever do anything right by you. They just had record amount of passengers last year (an all time record mind you) and they’ve already said they are in discussions with airlines about adding flights to Mexico.

So the airport leadership is doing their due diligence. Airlines don’t “disrespect” us whatever that means. They are going to do what they think is best for their business and not our feelings about what flights we think we should have. There are also some renovations coming to the airport as well to make the passenger experience better, such as removing tile floors, bathroom work etc.

I think our airport is great. Easy to get in and out of. I understand some folks driving to Dallas but sometimes after a long trip it can’t be beat just grabbing your luggage and going home versus driving from Dallas. Again, different strokes for different folks. I’m a primary AA customer so we have lots of options from here with them. Last report they were second in volume behind Southwest. I have no doubt DFW siphons off lots of AA passengers.

[bison34]

Geeze, I don’t think our airport will ever do anything right by you. They just had record amount of passengers last year (an all time record mind you) and they’ve already said they are in discussions with airlines about adding flights to Mexico.

So the airport leadership is doing their due diligence. Airlines don’t “disrespect” us whatever that means. They are going to do what they think is best for their business and not our feelings about what flights we think we should have. There are also some renovations coming to the airport as well to make the passenger experience better, such as removing tile floors, bathroom work etc.

I think our airport is great. Easy to get in and out of. I understand some folks driving to Dallas but sometimes after a long trip it can’t be beat just grabbing your luggage and going home versus driving from Dallas. Again, different strokes for different folks. I’m a primary AA customer so we have lots of options from here with them. Last report they were second in volume behind Southwest. I have no doubt DFW siphons off lots of AA passengers.

I actually really enjoy our airport. Like you said, it is easy in and out. They have significantly better options for food and drink than they did 3 years ago. The problem is that our route tree hasn't grown with it. I want OKC to truly be a BLC (big league city). But until they at least have flights to every hub, I don't think they are there yet.

The airport itself is very nice. I like the layout and how easy security is. I can be both critical and appreciative. OKC has a lot to offer,

[VeggieMeat]

Looking at the data of similar sized cities and emplanements, why does OKC lag in enplanements and non-stop routes when normalized for population?

I understand Raleigh and SLC are hubs, but how do Milwaukee and Memphis outperform OKC on non-stop routes? Only Providence (which can hit NYC or Boston for flights) and Birmingham, AL have fewer enplanements per population than OKC. I know the joke is people from OKC will drive instead of fly...but if you don't have direct routes, it makes choosing to drive much easier. How do we get to a level similar to these other airports?

All that being said, if OKC adds a non-stop international route (as rumored), it would be a big step forward for the airport.

Airport	2023 MSA Population	2023 Enplanements	Non-Stop Routes	Emplanements/ Person	Non-Stop Routes/ 1 million people	International?
Tuscon	1,080,300	1,925,546	19	1.78	17.6	No
Spokane	785,302	2,002,286	21	2.55	26.7	No
Tulsa	1,044,757	1,571,600	23	1.50	22.0	No
Birmingham, AL	1,184,290	1,499,027	23	1.27	19.4	No
OKC	1,477,926	2,135,106	25	1.44	16.9	No
Buffalo	1,155,604	2,291,995	29	1.98	25.1	No
Omaha	983,969	2,464,418	33	2.50	33.5	No
Milwaukee	1,560,424	2,959,840	35	1.90	22.4	Yes
Memphis	1,335,674	2,399,876	35	1.80	26.2	Yes (May 2025)
Richmond, VA	1,349,732	2,399,239	35	1.78	25.9	No
Grand Rapids	1,162,950	1,899,740	36	1.63	31.0	No
Providence, RI	1,677,803	1,732,909	38	1.03	22.6	Yes
Louisville	1,365,557	2,268,034	40	1.66	29.3	No
Cleveland	2,158,932	4,803,822	41	2.23	19.0	Yes
Columbus	2,180,271	4,095,189	46	1.88	21.1	Yes
Pittsburgh	2,422,725	4,493,052	60	1.85	24.8	Yes
Kansas City	2,221,343	5,654,068	61	2.55	27.5	No
Raleigh	1,509,231	7,119,040	74	4.72	49.0	Yes
Salt Lake City	1,267,864	12,905,368	105	10.18	82.8	Yes

Another relevant metric to compare might be how many people are closest to that airport. I don't know where to get updated data (or really have the time to devote to it), but I found where someone assembled something for that back in 2012.

While I'm sure the numbers have changed significantly from https://www.mark-pearson.com/airport-distances/OK.html over the last 13+ years, it could be worth looking into. (If you want the maps to load, you'll need to allow insecure content for the site because the Google Maps embed URLs are http while the site is https which throws a mixed content error and gets blocked by default for security.)

[Urbanized]

Cities like Providence, Milwaukee, Richmond, all have huge, massive cities with global airports within 2 or so hours. Yet they have much better route trees than OKC.

Let’s quit giving those whose job it is to recruit new routes to the airport a pass. Heck, Hartford is getting a JetBlue flight to JFK. Like, a flight that is less than 3 hours on a train (it is like, from OKC to Ardmore, distance-wise). I don't want to hear excuses. In the Zoo thread, people are raking them over the coals for not doing their jobs.

These are such absolutely untethered from reality, apples-and-oranges comparisons on every level. Hartford has 19,577,357 people living within 100 miles. Nineteen million!

Here’s at tool for finding the populations within a prescribed radius of American cities. I’ll save you the trouble of looking up 100 mile radius numbers for the cities you listed in the above post:

• Milwaukee: 12,506,872
• Providence: 8,796,289
• Richmond: 6,301,522

Oklahoma City has 2,409,939 within a 100 mile radius. And a hefty chunk of those live south and will almost certainly choose DFW over OKC. The posts on this board that routinely, completely ignore the way population and capital influence the world around them blow my mind.

[Plutonic Panda]

Geeze, I don’t think our airport will ever do anything right by you. They just had record amount of passengers last year (an all time record mind you) and they’ve already said they are in discussions with airlines about adding flights to Mexico.

So the airport leadership is doing their due diligence. Airlines don’t “disrespect” us whatever that means. They are going to do what they think is best for their business and not our feelings about what flights we think we should have. There are also some renovations coming to the airport as well to make the passenger experience better, such as removing tile floors, bathroom work etc.

I think our airport is great. Easy to get in and out of. I understand some folks driving to Dallas but sometimes after a long trip it can’t be beat just grabbing your luggage and going home versus driving from Dallas. Again, different strokes for different folks. I’m a primary AA customer so we have lots of options from here with them. Last report they were second in volume behind Southwest. I have no doubt DFW siphons off lots of AA passengers.

Yeah, blah blah. Let me f@cking know when they add new direct flights.

PS, I’m trolling, but only barely. I don’t really use Oklahoma City airport, except the fly to and from Los Angeles. But I would like to see more direct flights added.

[G.Walker]

I have always wondered how Salt Lake City International Airport has maintained such a high passenger traffic as considered its a "small market", compared to other cities on that list, nothing even comes close.

But I guess hosting the Winter Olympics in 2002 gave it real boost with infrastructure. They are also slated to host the 2034 Winter Olympics.

[G.Walker]

I only see Oklahoma City International airport securing Latin American routes, those makes the most sense. I don't see them securing any European cities, maybe London as a longshot, but won't hold my breath.

[Urbanized]

I have always wondered how Salt Lake City International Airport has maintained such a high passenger traffic as considered its a "small market", compared to other cities on that list, nothing even comes close.

But I guess hosting the Winter Olympics in 2002 gave it real boost with infrastructure. They are also slated to host the 2034 Winter Olympics.

SLC does have a pretty robust visitor economy, plus a lot of tech and defense business, and of course is the worldwide HQ for a major religion.

But the main reason it has so many flights is due to it being a Delta hub. If you’re flying Delta to the west coast or intermountain west there’s a pretty good chance you’ll be flying through SLC. Comparing OKC to a Big Three airline hub will always be an unfair comparison.

[BG918]

These are such absolutely untethered from reality, apples-and-oranges comparisons on every level. Hartford has 19,577,357 people living within 100 miles. Nineteen million!

Here’s at tool for finding the populations within a prescribed radius of American cities. I’ll save you the trouble of looking up 100 mile radius numbers for the cities you listed in the above post:

• Milwaukee: 12,506,872
• Providence: 8,796,289
• Richmond: 6,301,522

Oklahoma City has 2,409,939 within a 100 mile radius. And a hefty chunk of those live south and will almost certainly choose DFW over OKC. The posts on this board that routinely, completely ignore the way population and capital influence the world around them blow my mind.

Good point on the population density. OKC has to split that 2.4M with TUL to the east and DFW to the south, whereas Omaha (for example) has 1.9M nearly all to itself with only LNK and its 7 daily flights to DEN/ORD.

Similarly TUL is able to have nearly the same number of nonstop destinations as OKC even though the Tulsa metro has 400k less people due to the higher population density of eastern OK (3.1M in a 100 mile radius, 4.6M in a 125 mile radius which picks up OKC and NWA).