OKC Zoo

[BoulderSooner]

n/m

[Pete]

^

I've gone over this many times.

You should disclose you have a personal connection to the zoo; you are hardly objective in this matter.

[BoulderSooner]

n/m

[Pete]

when did the city advertise for BIDS for this project ? you know competitive binding bids??

Never said they did competitive binding bids previously.

But Lawson's email said that JE Dunn did seek bids from contractors over a year ago and that's where they came up with the $37 million number.


This has been rehashed like a dozen times now.

[Plutonic Panda]

Because the zoo will at least partially fund the aquarium and no doubt hire and pay the people to operate it.

Otherwise, Okana wouldn't need them at all.

Is this normal in other cities that have aquariums that aren’t in the zoo they have? Like for example, is that massive aquarium in Atlanta connected to the zoo? If not why couldn’t OKANA just do their own thing with an aquarium?

[bamarsha]

Not sure about the ATL, but the TUL has the zoo up on the north side and the aquarium down in Jenks. Not sure if that's normal either, though.

[bison34]

Is this normal in other cities that have aquariums that aren’t in the zoo they have? Like for example, is that massive aquarium in Atlanta connected to the zoo? If not why couldn’t OKANA just do their own thing with an aquarium?

They 100% can. They are a private entity, and have minimal restrictions on them.

But I think the easiest route for an aquarium would be with the Zoo's help.

[Pete]

The zoo has long wanted an aquarium downtown; remember they pushed to be a part of MAPS 4 in the area that will now be the soccer stadium. That was also to be a partnership with private devleopers.

In their trustee minutes, they talked about being able to reach more people, get the benefit of revenue, and that while they would put up some of the funds and operate the facility, Okana would also partially fund it.

It's a win/win partnership. However, it would certainly be behind this aquatic mammal exhibit in priority which is another reason to be disappointed by how that project has been handled. Arguably, this issue will put the zoo back years on a number of improvements.

[Plutonic Panda]

So does that basically f up the zoo’s expansion plans or just requires going back to the drawing board for the aquarium? As another poster said I’d rather postpone upgrading the zoo aquarium until it can be done right not value engineered to get it done quicker. I’m willing to wait for a better end product.

[April in the Plaza]

This would be like if the new arena cost came out to be, what, 1.7 billion dollars? What's sad is that I could see people on here defending that too. A 93% overrun is unbelievable.

It will be every bit of 1.5B.

The $900M was politically convenient. Sounds a lot better to be under a billion.

[jn1780]

The zoo can build a lot of things for what it will cost to build an aquarium. OKANA would have to pitch in a lot of money to get it built. The zoo would be like the Thunder in this relationship. I think the zoos biggest contribution would be vet services and it's connections to the network of partner zoos.

[HOT ROD]

very interesting to see all of the scrutiny with the OKC Zoo when issues like this and WORSE are dismissed when it comes to the State Fair board. Both have dedicated funding sources yet the State Fair is allowed to show up at EVERY MAPS initiative for pork projects. State Fair board decided to remove OKC Fairground icons without consent from the public, with no replacement or master plan yet people are up in arms over the Zoo missing a construction estimate.

Im not saying we shouldn't be concerned with the miss from the Zoo, but my recollection is they have run a fine organization, haven't been showing up begging for money, and this is their 1 miss and they appear to be owning up to it and making the best decision for the city. None of this is true for the State Fair but many on here and throughout the OKC landscape dismiss any question about the Fair.

I think the OKC public should have transparency on every city department, trust, and expenditure. Yet it is the State Fair and not the OKC Zoo that is the least transparent arm of city govt funding even moreso than the Economic Development Agency (and that's saying something. ..) I wonder why?

[citywokchinesefood]

very interesting to see all of the scrutiny with the OKC Zoo when issues like this and WORSE are dismissed when it comes to the State Fair board. Both have dedicated funding sources yet the State Fair is allowed to show up at EVERY MAPS initiative for pork projects. State Fair board decided to remove OKC Fairground icons without consent from the public, with no replacement or master plan yet people are up in arms over the Zoo missing a construction estimate.

Im not saying we shouldn't be concerned with the miss from the Zoo, but my recollection is they have run a fine organization, haven't been showing up begging for money, and this is their 1 miss and they appear to be owning up to it and making the best decision for the city. None of this is true for the State Fair but many on here and throughout the OKC landscape dismiss any question about the Fair.

I think the OKC public should have transparency on every city department, trust, and expenditure. Yet it is the State Fair and not the OKC Zoo that is the least transparent arm of city govt funding even moreso than the Economic Development Agency (and that's saying something. ..) I wonder why?

I think the zoo could have made it on to this MAPS if they had submitted everything on time. I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember it being mentioned in the MAPS thread that they missed deadlines and as a result were not under real consideration. If I am wrong someone, please correct me.

[BoulderSooner]

I think the zoo could have made it on to this MAPS if they had submitted everything on time. I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember it being mentioned in the MAPS thread that they missed deadlines and as a result were not under real consideration. If I am wrong someone, please correct me.

no the maps projects were selects behind doors well in advance ..

[Paseofreak]

The State Fair Board keeps a very tight lid on their plans and internal workings. I don’t like it one bit, but you can’t object or approve of what you can’t see.

[Pete]

I think the zoo could have made it on to this MAPS if they had submitted everything on time. I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember it being mentioned in the MAPS thread that they missed deadlines and as a result were not under real consideration. If I am wrong someone, please correct me.

That's pretty accurate. The pitch for the Producers Coop site came very late and I'm not even sure it was ever fully fleshed out. I believe it was the product of a development group trying to get an anchor for a large project on that site.

But it's also true the zoo was involved in a pitch for MAPS 4 money; not sure the submitting team had their act together.

[BDP]

very interesting to see all of the scrutiny with the OKC Zoo when issues like this and WORSE are dismissed when it comes to the State Fair board. Both have dedicated funding sources yet the State Fair is allowed to show up at EVERY MAPS initiative for pork projects. State Fair board decided to remove OKC Fairground icons without consent from the public, with no replacement or master plan yet people are up in arms over the Zoo missing a construction estimate.

Im not saying we shouldn't be concerned with the miss from the Zoo, but my recollection is they have run a fine organization, haven't been showing up begging for money, and this is their 1 miss and they appear to be owning up to it and making the best decision for the city. None of this is true for the State Fair but many on here and throughout the OKC landscape dismiss any question about the Fair.

I think the OKC public should have transparency on every city department, trust, and expenditure. Yet it is the State Fair and not the OKC Zoo that is the least transparent arm of city govt funding even moreso than the Economic Development Agency (and that's saying something. ..) I wonder why?

The conduct and transparency issues related to the state fair board is brought up and discussed here every September and every time anything is done at or proposed for the state fairgrounds. Not that it is unwarranted, but it's a pretty consistent and ongoing topic in the State Fair thread.

I don't recall too much criticism of Zoo operations before this.

[Urbanized]

Anyone who feels compelled to question the Zoo Trust’s transparency should probably first commit to reading its 1975 Declaration of Trust (which in part explains the reasoning behind its creation) the trust’s bylaws (which addresses how it is to be run) plus the January meeting agenda, which includes considerable detail on the matter being discussed upthread.

All of this is published online and linked through the zoo’s website.

As far as City trusts go the zoo’s is generally held in very high regard, as is Dwight Lawson. It’s fair - check that, DESIRABLE - to ask reasonable questions anytime a public effort appears to not line up with internal or external expectations, but some of the baseless slander upthread is unconscionable.

[HOT ROD]

yes, my point Urban. Zoo is well run and quite transparent. One mistake shouldn't degrade what is a well run city investment. They can start over with a new, better plan and learn from the constructive criticism, which is what I expect from them. ..

[Pete]

I want to apologize if it seemed I was attacking Dwight Lawson.

I'm just really frustrated by the way City projects are bid, managed, and reported. I believe this is one in a long line of big misses and I've also believed for over a decade we are not learning and improving.

All this is magnified in highly volatile construction and material markets.


IMO this is an example of a much bigger problem which is why I had a bit of a strong reaction. It comes on the heels of several other big city projects being delayed and/or drastically reduced, as well as many more that pre-dated the pandemic. Using that as a deflection is not helpful, especially since almost five years have passed. Things have changed, but none of these problems can be a surprise at this point.

It may be time to talk to the mayor and/or a couple of council members because having watched all this very closely for over a decade, I believe a better reporting system and a post-project review would go a long way towards correcting these types of issues. If they are doing those things, they have not been sharing them with the public.

[Laramie]

The Zoo having its own funding source (1/8 cent penny sales tax) may be why the city isn't excited about helping the Zoo to fund a downtown aquarium. You know if OKC is going to build an Aquarium, they want to have something unique, better than the Jenks Aquarium and more comparable to Atlanta or Dallas. Aware that Atlanta and Dallas are much larger markets; however it shouldn't be a deterrent to OKC aspiring to move up to the next level.

This is more aligned with projects like our proposed $1 billion downtown arena. If we're going to be an NBA city, we'll need the funds to construct or maintain a comparable
NBA arena. Too bad we didn't get it right the first time (. . . improvements to Paycom Center).

[Laramie]

What are our options on building a World Class Aquarium--partnership which includes the Zoo, Tribes and our City?

Do will build it downtown, adjacent or on the new $1 billion arena site or on the land near the FAM museum and Okana Water Resort.

[scottk]

What are our options on building a World Class Aquarium--partnership which includes the Zoo, Tribes and our City?

Do will build it downtown, adjacent or on the new $1 billion arena site or on the land near the FAM museum and Okana Water Resort.

I think FAM. Next to the arena will be extremely valuable real estate. If it is next to Okana and FAM, I can easily see "stay and play" packages that would encourage out of town visitors to see the aquarium or FAM when they are at Okana. Business conferences that stay downtown/Bricktown could also easily drop into an aquarium for an evening activity. All of these businesses could work together and develop some form of a OKC Passport where you pick three activities for a bundled price. (Zoo, SMO, Cowboy Heritage Museum, FAM, Proposed Aquarium, OKC MOA, etc)

Essentially, do what Grapevine, Texas does with the Seal Life Aquarium, Legoland, Meow Wolf, all within 5 minutes of Great Wolf Lodge and the Gaylord Texan.

[Urbanized]

It would be an absolute home run at FAM. Would also be a massive win for OKC.

[Laramie]

I think FAM. Next to the arena will be extremely valuable real estate. If it is next to Okana and FAM, I can easily see "stay and play" packages that would encourage out of town visitors to see the aquarium or FAM when they are at Okana. Business conferences that stay downtown/Bricktown could also easily drop into an aquarium for an evening activity. All of these businesses could work together and develop some form of a OKC Passport where you pick three activities for a bundled price. (Zoo, SMO, Cowboy Heritage Museum, FAM, Proposed Aquarium, OKC MOA, etc)

Essentially, do what Grapevine, Texas does with the Seal Life Aquarium, Legoland, Meow Wolf, all within 5 minutes of Great Wolf Lodge and the Gaylord Texan.

OKANA'S 404 room resort would be home to the Aquarium (funded by Zoo, Tribe and City). Great idea with the 3 activity passport bundled price. How could we tie this in with the WCWS and/or Remington Park Racino.