New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[kevin lee]

Louisville would be a great NBA city. Do they have the deep pockets and corporate base to bring one to town? Humana, GE Appliance, UPS, Brown- Forman, Yum Brands (KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut) and Papa John’s are HQ’d there.

Brown-Forman announced their closing the Louisville cooperage earlier this week.

[Paseofreak]

Why not, this is a forum, where we engage in civil discussions.

As much as I would love an ECHL franchise here, The City of Oklahoma City, affiliated powers that be, and the citizenry have firmly rejected hockey since the Thunder arrived. It's gone the way of the Fairgrounds Speedway and nothing on the horizon is going to change that.

[Pete]

Prairie Surf hasn't taken down or updated their website. It's not a good look on them. You would think they shift back to actively promoting Oklahoma's film industry and just be ready for when a new opportunity for a new location comes along.

They lost their CEO a year ago, and she just quit -- didn't take any other job or role. This was not long after their only real ongoing client, Tulsa King, chose to leave as soon as they could even though the show was based in the state.

Their whole business model was getting the City to pay for them to have a place for free and for the state to greatly improve their incentives. Now, they are without a facility and if they wait for the stadium district to be built, it will be years.

I said at the time I had my doubts about them and thought the city got conned.

I strongly suspect if they do come back, they will have their hands out once again.

[Dob Hooligan]

I believe there are soon to be two NBA ready arenas under construction with one that already exist. They are doing an expansion near the Rio, and they are about to build a huge hotel that will be the tallest one yet on the northern end of the strip with what it’ll probably be one of the most if not the most expensive NBA arena in the world.

The north strip location is the old Wet-n-Wild location that belongs to former Sahara owner Paul Lowden, and has been pitched by former NBA player Jackie Robinson as an NBA arena/casino/hotel for 20 years. Some different people attached to this attempt, but it is much like our 1907 foot tall tower in lower Bricktown.

The other project is at Las Vegas Boulevard and Blue Diamond Road, and has more gravitas, because it is fronted by the Oak View Group. Tim Leiweke with OVG was mostly the face of their bringing the Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle to completion and the NHL Kraken as primary tenant. Announced in 2022, I think the project was described as "stalled" in late 2024, and Leiweke said they are not married to the location.

The Rio area has land available, but no solid projects moving forward.

T-Mobile Arena is NBA capable. It is currently the home of the NHL Vegas Golden Knights and they are the primary tenant. They control dates, signage and luxury suite rental.

[NewbombTurk]

Prairie Surf hasn't taken down or updated their website. It's not a good look on them. You would think they shift back to actively promoting Oklahoma's film industry and just be ready for when a new opportunity for a new location comes along.

...she just quit -- didn't take any other job or role. This was not long after their only real ongoing client, Tulsa King, chose to leave as soon as they could even though the show was based in the state.

Rachel Cannon jumping ship spoke volumes, It's a glorified PR arm for Payne & friends, with lots of empty promises about being a hub for local filmmakers/crew and a shoddy track record to back. As for what their real end goals are...more mixers?

The bulk of Tulsa King's crew was hired out-of-state, and they left for Atlanta because rebate incentives were better there––Stallone hating the weather, too. They got to host a little bit of the Twisters shoot, but acted like they oversaw the whole thing and felt responsible for its success on social media.

If they were truly interested in the industry here, they'd be busy making that happen, not rubbing elbows. If American Underdog is the apex of their work (they've shot more ads for local businesses than features), enough to proudly hang a banner outside like a report card, they're not planning to go any further than that. Their new M.O. is trade-lite programs aimed at K-12, to get the ball rolling early that PSM = Hollywood. If the Love family or venture funds don't write blank checks for a new compound in Edmond, that's all for nothing.

[Pete]

Even American Underdog was from a production company that had already filmed other projects in OKC long before Prairie Surf.


The new thing is to claim huge economic development numbers, then put your hand out for tons of local and state incentives.

And of course, there is never any follow-up or objective analysis of the outcomes. We never know the real return on these public investments, just tons of grandiose rhetoric from those directly benefitting, including the groups that run the economic development programs.


Just look at what a huge deal Stitt and the various state agencies made out of 'landing' Canoo. Now that they've cratered and we've already given them money, just silence from anyone that was involved on the giving side.

Similarly, where is the accounting and evaluation of everything given to Praire Surf? There never will be any.

[HOT ROD]

Is OKC that much hotter than Atlanta? ABQ seems to be doing well yet dont they get hotter than OKC?

IDK, seems like a cop out for Stallone to say OKC is too hot to do his job. He's entitled to his opinion and I agree OKC is a bit hot during the summer, so couldn't they do the shoots during the spring/fall when OKC is quite pleasant? shrug

Agree about what else has been said, with the bait and switch and lack of transparency of these "investments". ..

[bison34]

Is OKC that much hotter than Atlanta? ABQ seems to be doing well yet dont they get hotter than OKC?

IDK, seems like a cop out for Stallone to say OKC is too hot to do his job. He's entitled to his opinion and I agree OKC is a bit hot during the summer, so couldn't they do the shoots during the spring/fall when OKC is quite pleasant? shrug

Agree about what else has been said, with the bait and switch and lack of transparency of these "investments". ..

OKC is not hotter than either of those markets for TV and film. It is doing well for a burgeoning market. But those cities have been established for a while.

[Pete]

The "Stallone hates the weather" thing has always been pure conjecture.

He also posted many positive things about Oklahoma but somehow those don't count. Also, 'better incentives' get thrown around but Tulsa King never really gave the state and city a chance to negotiate; they just went silent and then announced they were moving. I suspect we would have come up with at least as much if given the chance.


I've reached out to friends in TV production to try and learn the exact reasons for leaving but haven't been able to find anything. I get the strong impression there were other reasons than weather. I know for a fact they had to bring in a lot of the crew from elsewhere because we didn't have enough experienced workers. Way more expensive to bring in people, pay to house them, etc. I would think it would be far easier to find qualified locals in Atlanta.


Somebody decided one social media post from Stallone about our heat was the main reason, and that doesn't even make much sense given they moved to hot, humid Atlanta.

[HOT ROD]

I didn't say OKC was a better market as I know both are well established media centers, esp Atlanta. My point was the weather argument, Atlanta is likely more humid than OKC in the summer and ABQ is likely hotter.

Thanks Pete for the analysis, does seem to be an easy conjecture to help get production out of Oklahoma.

[warreng88]

I have family in the Atlanta area and they say there are so many trades available for the TV/Movie market that places like LA, NYC, Chicago, etc have and it just takes time to get there. I feel like there was a push for Prairie surf to partner with OCCC and other colleges to have programs where people can come and learn the trades that go with movie/TV making. Not sure if that ever worked out, but I would guess there are several in the Atlanta area that do a lot of that and it is easier to film there without having to bring those people in versus the other way around. Also, there are several multi-million square feet studios in the Atlanta area and the state of Georgia basically has an open check book for tax incentives for movies/TV.

[PhiAlpha]

The "Stallone hates the weather" thing has always been pure conjecture.

He also posted many positive things about Oklahoma but somehow those don't count. Also, 'better incentives' get thrown around but Tulsa King never really gave the state and city a chance to negotiate; they just went silent and then announced they were moving. I suspect we would have come up with at least as much if given the chance.


I've reached out to friends in TV production to try and learn the exact reasons for leaving but haven't been able to find anything. I get the strong impression there were other reasons than weather. I know for a fact they had to bring in a lot of the crew from elsewhere because we didn't have enough experienced workers. Way more expensive to bring in people, pay to house them, etc. I would think it would be far easier to find qualified locals in Atlanta.


Somebody decided one social media post from Stallone about our heat was the main reason, and that doesn't even make much sense given they moved to hot, humid Atlanta.

Yeah this is the reason the whole Stallone hates the weather excuse makes me laugh. Have the people suggesting this ever been to Atlanta? LOL It's miserable in the summer and I'd argue that its worse than Oklahoma.

[bamarsha]

I was curious about temps... that doesn't take into account the humidity or altitude (both can make a big difference on the way it feels (sorry, Excel doesn't copy and paste easily here).

ABQ OKC ATL
Hi Lo Rain Hi Lo Rain Hi Lo Rain
January 51 / 25 2 January 49 / 27 3 January 53 / 33 8
February 57 / 28 1 February 53 / 31 3 February 58 / 36 8
March 66 / 34 1 March 63 / 40 5 March 66 / 42 8
April 74 / 42 2 April 72 / 48 5 April 73 / 48 7
May 83 / 51 2 May 79 / 58 8 May 80 / 58 7
June 93 / 61 2 June 88 / 67 6 June 87 / 65 8
July 94 / 66 6 July 94 / 71 4 July 89 / 69 9
August 92 / 65 5 August 93 / 70 5 August 88 / 68 7
September 85 / 58 4 September 85 / 62 5 September 83 / 62 5
October 74 / 45 2 October 74 / 50 5 October 74 / 51 5
November 61 / 33 2 November 61 / 39 4 November 64 / 41 6
December 51 / 25 2 December 51 / 30 4 December 56 / 35 8

[Anonymous.]

I swear we had this same conversation in another thread a while back about KC vs. OKC weather.

The answer in the data is once again - yes OKC is less comfortable (hotter) than any of those cities. Is that the reason they left? Probably not - but OKC does not have great weather, that is just facts.

[Pete]

^

But Dallas, Austin, and Houston have absolutely miserable summers and people are flocking there, including production crews.

It's not like TK moved from here to California. It may be hotter in OKC than in Atlanta, but I've been there plenty of times and with the humidity, in some ways it's worse. At the very least, the summers are pretty comparable.

Anyway, we'll never know the reasons they left, but nothing else of significance has come since and that's pretty telling. It may be a simple matter of getting more experienced crew, but that's very much a chicken-and-egg situation.

[SagerMichael]

As an ATL native, it’s called Hotlanta for a reason. I’ll take 103 in OKC over 92 in Atlanta any day. The humidity is that real and that bad

[jn1780]

Can't wait until visible demolition starts so we can talk about other topics. lol

I mean they did pick to film OKC at that time of the year. Have they heard of method acting? The audience can get a true impression on how a mob boss would feel in Oklahoma weather.

[Anonymous.]

^

But Dallas, Austin, and Houston have absolutely miserable summers and people are flocking there, including production crews.

It's not like TK moved from here to California. It may be hotter in OKC than in Atlanta, but I've been there plenty of times and with the humidity, in some ways it's worse. At the very least, the summers are pretty comparable.

Anyway, we'll never know the reasons they left, but nothing else of significance has come since and that's pretty telling. It may be a simple matter of getting more experienced crew, but that's very much a chicken-and-egg situation.

I agree with you, the "feels" temperature is a significant factor. Wind in OKC plays a major role with "feel". In fact, the wind to me is a larger player in OKC weather than humidity and temperature. Here is data of the wind, OKC has the strongest winds during the times you want it the least, and has the weakest winds during the times you want it the most. In regards to the Texas cities where everyone is moving to, I believe people's avoidance of harsh winter weather plays a major factor there. OKC easily has a worse winter than any of the major Texas cities.




Here is winter season comfortability. This is where Texas shines.




Sorry for the off-topic posts, weather nerd side came out.

To keep on topic, I think they will require massive dust-suppresion techniques when they demo this site, especially because it will be during the windy season here

[Laramie]

. . . continued from Oklahoma City Thunder BB thread.

18,203 is a sell out for the thunder IIRC ..

Yes, that is correct. As we prepare to build a new DT arena we need to think of something multipurpose to fulfill our NBA, NCAA basketball, Rodeo, concerts and large gatherings needs.

Looking back at the 70s when we proposed the Incomparable Myriad Convention Center our original plans were to have a complete 15,000 seat main arena with a 100k exhibition hall and flexible meeting rooms to allow OKC to compete for conventions and events. At one time during the interim, a 40,0000 seat convention hall was proposed; yes forty with a four.

What eventually killed our convention center despite the lack of seats had more to do with DT hotel accommodations to support the convention center complex. Now we have a convention center and 605 luxury suites. Hopefully, the new arena facade will blend seamlessly with the Convention Center and Omni Hotel.

When all was said and done, we were able to pass a bond issue for the exhibition space; however cost overruns took its toll on the 15,000 seat minimum arena downsized to 11,200 seats which didn't allow any growth for the event. When we moved the ever popular NFR from the 8,500 State Fair Arena to Myriad, the popularity of the NFR caught the ire of Las Vegas' casino world to fill December void using the NFR as a potential magnet to draw tourists to the strip. The 19,500 seat Thomas & Mack (U of NV - Las Vegas) center was offered as the venue to host the NFR . It could easily accommodate over 18,000+ for NFR events that didn't include the calf roping. This gave Las Vegas a 7,000 seat edge, along the the gambling lure and lights of LV and celeb shows making Nevada's largest city more attractive to grow the NFR.

Our new downtown arena will cement the NBA in OKC. We need to plan for concerts of which configurations can vary. Just building to accommodate our NBA Thunder when our arena should be multipurpose to attract concerts and rodeos--our 5,000 seat State Fair Coliseum is too small to handle the PBR bull riding circuit. Sure we could leave an open entry space that could be used to add 500 more temp seats. Let's get this right--we're investing $1 billion to build this new centerpiece arena. There's no room for mistakes. Build to accommodate the future--IMO it's better to slightly overbuild than to under build.

[Pete]

And remember, Tulsa King was supposed to be filmed and set in Kansas City and they voluntarily decided to change the name and production location. Was original titled 'Kansas City'.

Taylor Sheridan is the one behind TK and he grew up in Ft. Worth, lived in Austin, and now lives on a ranch in Weatherford, Texas... So it's not like the Oklahoma weather was unknown.

[BoulderSooner]

And remember, Tulsa King was supposed to be filmed and set in Kansas City and they voluntarily decided to change the name and production location. Was original titled 'Kansas City'.

Taylor Sheridan is the one behind TK and he grew up in Ft. Worth, lived in Austin, and now lives on a ranch in Weatherford, Texas... So it's not like the Oklahoma weather was unforeseen.

Oklahoma did have record heat for a period of that time .... so even with our "normal" summer heat standard it was pretty hot ..

(not disagreeing with anything else just adding that context)

[Urbanized]

Based on talking to some folks around the production I think TK’s move was due to two things:

1. A market (OKC) that is still emerging and lacking an abundance of local, experienced industry folks
2. An unwillingness of the production company to take a chance on local talent.

I met a locally-based actor who still had a SAG card after spending time working in LA, and she told me that local industry folks like her were VERY frustrated that they couldn’t even get auditions, or in the case of behind-the-scenes folks couldn’t get paying gigs on the production.

I also met an NYC-based SAG actor who had spent something like a decade in LA and who had legitimate credits in shows like The Office and Sex in the City. She had an extremely small speaking part in TK (I’m trying to recall if it even made it to the screen) and she was:

1. Flown here from NYC
2. Put up at The National for nearly a week in order to make calls at hair, makeup and wardrobe
3. Had a generous expense allowance for meals while here

All for one or two lines that, again, might not have even made it to the show. The point I’m making is that there were surely dozens of people like her flown in for the production during their time here, including not only actors but also people like PAs, wardrobe, grips, gaffers, sound, whatever. I think that this production, for whatever reason, refused to engage with local talent from the outset, and the resulting expenses incurred pretty quickly wiped out the savings they got via film tax credits.

Contrast that with a production like Killers of the Flower Moon, which worked very hard to engage with Oklahoma (and Osage) talent. Heck, I personally knew a few people who appeared in that movie, whereas I can’t think of anyone I knew on TK (other than the NYC-based actor I mentioned).

My hypothesis is that the TK move to Atlanta had more to do with the production company’s rejection of Oklahoma talent, as it is, driving a cost spiral. No doubt, Oklahoma (and OKC) need more locally-based production talent, which is why various in-state studios have been working so hard to train people. But I think TK also never tried to hard to use what was here, erasing the other economic benefits of an Oklahoma-based production.

[Dob Hooligan]

. . . continued from Oklahoma City Thunder BB thread.



Yes, that is correct. As we prepare to build a new DT arena we need to think of something multipurpose to fulfill our NBA, NCAA basketball, Rodeo, concerts and large gatherings needs.

Looking back at the 70s when we proposed the Incomparable Myriad Convention Center our original plans were to have a complete 15,000 seat main arena with a 100k exhibition hall and flexible meeting rooms to allow OKC to compete for conventions and events. At one time during the interim, a 40,0000 seat convention hall was proposed; yes forty with a four.

What eventually killed our convention center despite the lack of seats had more to do with DT hotel accommodations to support the convention center complex. Now we have a convention center and 605 luxury suites. Hopefully, the new arena facade will blend seamlessly with the Convention Center and Omni Hotel.

When all was said and done, we were able to pass a bond issue for the exhibition space; however cost overruns took its toll on the 15,000 seat minimum arena downsized to 11,200 seats which didn't allow any growth for the event. When we moved the ever popular NFR from the 8,500 State Fair Arena to Myriad, the popularity of the NFR caught the ire of Las Vegas' casino world to fill December void using the NFR as a potential magnet to draw tourists to the strip. The 19,500 seat Thomas & Mack (U of NV - Las Vegas) center was offered as the venue to host the NFR . It could easily accommodate over 18,000+ for NFR events that didn't include the calf roping. This gave Las Vegas a 7,000 seat edge, along the the gambling lure and lights of LV and celeb shows making Nevada's largest city more attractive to grow the NFR.

Our new downtown arena will cement the NBA in OKC. We need to plan for concerts of which configurations can vary. Just building to accommodate our NBA Thunder when our arena should be multipurpose to attract concerts and rodeos--our 5,000 seat State Fair Coliseum is too small to handle the PBR bull riding circuit. Sure we could leave an open entry space that could be used to add 500 more temp seats. Let's get this right--we're investing $1 billion to build this new centerpiece arena. There's no room for mistakes. Build to accommodate the future--IMO it's better to slightly overbuild than to under build.

I think the current belief is that 18,000 people is about the maximum number of people that indoor, basketball type arenas can handle in comfort. We can get more people in, but ease of access, width of seat, foot room, and sightlines are diminished. They want to maximize revenue per seat, and make it a better value than sitting at home watching it on your 70-inch TV. If the seats above the 18,000 make for a less desirable experience, then they wind up selling them for cheap and add to the overall uncomfortable crowd experience. If all the seats above the bottom section are crammed like sardines in order to go from 18,000 to 22,000 capacity, then a whole lot of people are not wanting to attend or pay strong money for the experience.

[Pete]

^

A huge issue is the large amount of suites in modern arenas. Suites maximize revenue but reduce capacity.

[BoulderSooner]

^

A huge issue is the large amount of suites in modern arenas. Suites maximize revenue but reduce capacity.

it will be very interesting if the new thunder area could be the first to solve the courtside suites "problem"

several NFL and MLB stadiums have field level suites ... so far no NBA arena does (now they have court side suites but they don't inclued a view of the court) ..

not sure that is even possible .. but it would be a very cool feature that would produce revenue .