OKC Zoo

[FighttheGoodFight]

Jeez. Looks like the architecture firm and the CM way overdid it for what they could get for 27 million. Again comes back to not knowing the construction costs. JE Dunn should have had a better grasp on that.

[Pete]

Jeez. Looks like the architecture firm and the CM way overdid it for what they could get for 27 million. Again comes back to not knowing the construction costs. JE Dunn should have had a better grasp on that.

We aren't privy to what JE Dunn shared with the zoo.

The email says they initially used an estimator and they came in at $27MM and that's where they set their budget. Then they hired JE Dunn who got bids from subcontractors (this was a year ago) and that totaled $37MM.

They decided to proceed anyway, even though they were already $10 MM over budget and knowing full well what was going on with inflation and construction issues.

They then re-bid hoping to get that amount down -- based on what, who knows -- and then it was $52 MM.


They knew well over a year ago that they were already 40% over budget and hoped by re-bidding the amounts would come down, now act surprised after messing around with this prices only went up.

[Midtowner]

I don't think anything is nefarious, just horribly managed which raises much bigger concerns, especially since just in the last few months they paid for an elaborate Master Plan with associated budgets, which now has to be considered equally useless.
.

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

--my phrase of 2025.

[BoulderSooner]

Then they hired JE Dunn who got bids from subcontractors (this was a year ago) and that totaled $37MM.

this is not accurate at all

that numbers was the rough estimate by JE dunn

[Pete]

this is not accurate at all

that numbers was the rough estimate by JE dunn

I know you love to be a contrarian and argue just to argue, but this is directly from Lawson's email:

JE Dunn went out to obtain bids from a variety of subcontractors and came back with an estimated rough cost of $37M.

Rough or not, they did seek and receive bids and proceeded even though at that time they were already $10 MM over their approved budget.

Given the current climate, waiting to rebid in the hopes of costs coming down instead of going up was completely unrealistic, as proven by the recent $52 MM number.

From the Lost Ogle:

You’re telling me that in the post-pandemic landscape – a time where rising inflation, dysfunctional supply chains, global trade wars, and other economic factors made construction costs skyrocket – that Zoo officials were warned the project was coming in over budget, but they thought it would be okay because costs would go… down?

[warreng88]

It should be noted the email stated they started the process back in March of 2021 and sounded like they engaged JE Dunn pretty quickly thereafter. In just about every industry, everyone knew that cost of good increased dramatically around that time. My Godson who was in high school knew about it and was talking to me about it. So, the head of the Zoo planning a sub-$30 million budget for a new project certainly should have known. How do you NOT go back to the architects and subs to check and make sure those costs are still similar three years later when you are going to start the process? That's the biggest mishap for me...

[warreng88]

And I just realized everything I typed up Pete quoted from the Lost Ogle article...

[Pete]

BTW, the zoo had to pay to relocate the sea lions in 2022 so they could start demolition and they were supposed to bring them back in a couple of years.

The sea lion exhibit also generated revenue through twice daily shows as late as 2022. There was a pretty big stadium there.


So now, we have a big dirt lot and no feasible plan to build anything. And what happens to those sea lions that are now in limbo?

[Paseofreak]

Wonder what the market is looking like for zoo directors these days. The Zoo trust should have been watching this closely and seen how flawed the process was and what was coming. They're culpable too.

[Pete]

Wonder what the market is looking like for zoo directors these days. The Zoo trust should have been watching this closely and seen how flawed the process was and what was coming. They're culpable too.

Lawson had a smaller role at the Atlanta Zoo when we hired him 10 years ago.

I don't believe he's ever been an Executive Director/CEO of any zoo previously.

[sooner2000]

I never understood how they arrived at the original number. Omaha opened a very similar sea lion exhibit (also Studio Hanson Roberts) in 2020. It was similar in size and amenities for the sea lions, and it did NOT include a penguin exhibit. The cost was $26.8 million dollars prior to post-pandemic inflation.

https://www.ketv.com/article/new-sea...ustry/33928947

[Paseofreak]

Take a look at this, particularly the Zoo Indenture. Places most of the duty, authority and responsibility on the trustees. The director takes direction from and reports to them. Been mulling over this mess and resolution is gonna be painful for many.

https://www.okczoo.org/zoo-trust

[Plutonic Panda]

you have a habit of telling people they are wrong without saying why, which adds very little to the conversation.

He’s been doing this since forever. He’ll post very short messages with zero evidence as to why other person is wrong and if there’s a post that he can’t turn into an argument, he’ll simply ignore it until you make a post that he can find a way to argue with.

[Pete]

Take a look at this, particularly the Zoo Indenture. Places most of the duty, authority and responsibility on the trustees. The director takes direction from and reports to them. Been mulling over this mess and resolution is gonna be painful for many.

https://www.okczoo.org/zoo-trust

They function like a Board of Directors.

But the CEO is the one who is providing them with the majority of their info. He went to them with the $27 million number, and they approved it. But it doesn't sound like they ever approved the first $37 estimate after bids, let alone $52 million in recent bids.

[PhiAlpha]

BTW, the zoo had to pay to relocate the sea lions in 2022 so they could start demolition and they were supposed to bring them back in a couple of years.

The sea lion exhibit also generated revenue through twice daily shows as late as 2022. There was a pretty big stadium there.


So now, we have a big dirt lot and no feasible plan to build anything. And what happens to those sea lions that are now in limbo?

I mean I don’t know. They’re probably having a great time!

[catcherinthewry]

you have a habit of telling people they are wrong without saying why, which adds very little to the conversation.

Luckily, this site has a tool that can help you with that

[Patrick]

Given, inflation, for the scope of the project they had in mind I can see where it would run 40-50 million. I think the estimate that Lawson initially gave was wishful thinking.

[BoulderSooner]

n/m

[jn1780]

It should be noted the email stated they started the process back in March of 2021 and sounded like they engaged JE Dunn pretty quickly thereafter. In just about every industry, everyone knew that cost of good increased dramatically around that time. My Godson who was in high school knew about it and was talking to me about it. So, the head of the Zoo planning a sub-$30 million budget for a new project certainly should have known. How do you NOT go back to the architects and subs to check and make sure those costs are still similar three years later when you are going to start the process? That's the biggest mishap for me...

Well we don't know what Zoo management and JE Dunn talked about the past year. I will say, every one who has dealt with contractors or hired advisors knows you have to constantly poke at them for an update. They have the ability to look at their spreadsheets and budgeting software and give a more realistic number based on current conditions. Going into bidding blind is a bad strategy.

[Pete]

I seriously doubt when JE Dunn gave Lawson the original $37 estimate over a year ago -- which was already $10 million over budget -- they told him that the price would come down by waiting a year and then re-bidding.

I'm sure it was the opposite: prices will only increase. They do tons of commercial work, so they know exactly what is happening in the construction market.


This is all just super disappointing because they demolished a working facility, shipped out the sea lions, and now there doesn't seem to be a feasible plan for a new facility. And as I said, this casts serious doubt on the Okana aquarium and the long list of desired improvements outlined in their recent master plan.

[warreng88]

Why would the demo of this facility hamstring an aquarium at Okana?

[Pete]

Why would the demo of this facility hamstring an aquarium at Okana?

Because they don't have the money to complete this project, which is a higher priority.

Everything behind this facility will have to be pushed back and some may be eliminated, especially if they are budgeted in the same completely unrealistic manner.

[warreng88]

Because they don't have the money to complete this project, which is a higher priority.

Everything behind this facility will have to be pushed back and some may be eliminated, especially if they are budgeted in the same completely unrealistic manner.

Maybe I am not understanding, but would the zoo build an aquarium at Okana? I understand why this facility wouldn't get built and why it would mess with all of the other projects they announced earlier last year, but don't know the connection between an aquarium at a different location.

[Pete]

Maybe I am not understanding, but would the zoo build an aquarium at Okana? I understand why this facility wouldn't get built and why it would mess with all of the other projects they announced earlier last year, but don't know the connection between an aquarium at a different location.

Because the zoo will at least partially fund the aquarium and no doubt hire and pay the people to operate it.

Otherwise, Okana wouldn't need them at all.

[Paseofreak]

While all the facts and circumstances aren’t known, at first blush, I wouldn’t partner with an organization that missed the mark this badly, failed to deliver on long promised results and responded with “Oh well”.