New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[BDP]

The feel good is "privately financed", but the reality is usually some combination of tax abatement, tax refund, land donation, road/water/sewer/electrical improvement, and other incentives.

Yes. Nothing of this scale is 100% privately funded. There is always at least some publicly funded infrastructure or tax relief. There often is also a new BID created that the owners have a large stake in and benefit from city investment and/or tax abatement. And this often happens without any kind of vote. This is where the real "hoodwinking" happens. You can usually read a dozen articles about the privately financed arenas and stadiums before getting to one that even mentions the public side of things. That side of these deals is often times much more complex and sometimes even hard for anyone in the public to have access to the details. We will know how much the city spends on the arena site itself, but there will most likely be a lot of other stuff the city spends money on to facilitate development, access to, and operation of the new arena.

But just like anything the city government spends money on, it's much easier to quantify the cost than it is quantify the return, mainly because that is usually by way of sales tax where direct attribution is always going to be difficult.

[jn1780]

So speaking of new arena. Have they started any of the prep work at the old cox center?

[Pete]

So speaking of new arena. Have they started any of the prep work at the old cox center?

Here is what I posted after a conference call with David Todd, the project manager:

• Already working with utility companies, asbestos survey; everything that can be done before PS vacates Dec. 31st.
• Interior work for a couple of months starting Jan. 1st - remove asbestos and other issues.
• Demolition estimated to start in March will take 6-9 months to completely remove the building.
• Hope to start construction immediately after demo.

[Tyson]

This has all happened so quickly. Finished demolition and start of construction by this time next year would be very impressive.

[kukblue1]

Since it didn't happen on New years eve like it should of maybe we can get an Explosion after the last regular season game this year. We should of blown it up for New Years Eve. How awesome would of that have been.

[April in the Plaza]

A good choice at that, you either pass it, or the Thunder end up in Las Vegas.

Wouldn't that be depressing. ?

The League was never going to approve the relocation of an existing team to a premium market earmarked for expansion. People will pay top dollar for an expansion team in Vegas or Seattle. But a market like Louisville? Ehh, not so much.

[jn1780]

Prairie Surf hasn't taken down or updated their website. It's not a good look on them. You would think they shift back to actively promoting Oklahoma's film industry and just be ready for when a new opportunity for a new location comes along.

[Dob Hooligan]

The League was never going to approve the relocation of an existing team to a premium market earmarked for expansion. People will pay top dollar for an expansion team in Vegas or Seattle. But a market like Louisville? Ehh, not so much.

I love Las Vegas and have studied it closely for over 20 years. I don't think the NBA is expanding there with this round of two. The population and business base isn't big enough for NHL, NFL, MLB and NBA teams. It is sexy and fun, but the Summer League, NBA Draft, All-Star game and NBA Cup are the best use of the market IMO.

Louisville is my guess where the league is expanding to after Seattle. Big enough city without any "Big 4" leagues in a basketball loving area. Lexington and Cincinatti are 80 and 100 miles away, respectively.

[bison34]

I just hope there are no delays. It will be a tight window to not breach the agreement with the Thunder for opening. 3.5 years from now, if the arena isn't opened, the city breaches a contract with the Thunder (not sure how valid said contract is, but they have always used summer of 2028 as a benchmark to be ready for the Thunder (even though they wouldn't play in it til October, at the earliest).

At least this is how I remember it. I may be misremembering something, though.

[aDark]

I love Las Vegas and have studied it closely for over 20 years. I don't think the NBA is expanding there with this round of two. The population and business base isn't big enough for NHL, NFL, MLB and NBA teams. It is sexy and fun, but the Summer League, NBA Draft, All-Star game and NBA Cup are the best use of the market IMO.

Louisville is my guess where the league is expanding to after Seattle. Big enough city without any "Big 4" leagues in a basketball loving area. Lexington and Cincinatti are 80 and 100 miles away, respectively.

Everything I've read treats Vegas as the presumptive expansion location. Lebron James has openly talked about wanting to have ownership in a Vegas NBA team.

I don't think the NBA is concerned about population/business base, as many attendees for the Vegas NBA games would be tourists who are make a trip out to Vegas w hen their home team is in town to play - as we've seen with NFL. It's not a traditional market but it has 2.3 mil in the metro and a tourism element that is unprecedented.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...w-to-32-teams/

[BoulderSooner]

I love Las Vegas and have studied it closely for over 20 years. I don't think the NBA is expanding there with this round of two. The population and business base isn't big enough for NHL, NFL, MLB and NBA teams. It is sexy and fun, but the Summer League, NBA Draft, All-Star game and NBA Cup are the best use of the market IMO.

Louisville is my guess where the league is expanding to after Seattle. Big enough city without any "Big 4" leagues in a basketball loving area. Lexington and Cincinatti are 80 and 100 miles away, respectively.

Vegas and Seattle are MORTAL locks for NBA expansion .. it has pretty much already been decided ..

[Dob Hooligan]

I know the talk. I know Las Vegas is sexy and shiny. I don't think it really adds up. We are talking over 160 tourism games a year, when you figure 40 NHL, 8.5 NFL, 81 MLB and 41 NBA regular season home dates. Even for a city that gets 40 million visitors a year. there is incredible competition for the spend.

[BG918]

Louisville would be a great NBA city. Do they have the deep pockets and corporate base to bring one to town? Humana, GE Appliance, UPS, Brown- Forman, Yum Brands (KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut) and Papa John’s are HQ’d there.

[BoulderSooner]

I know the talk. I know Las Vegas is sexy and shiny. I don't think it really adds up. We are talking over 160 tourism games a year, when you figure 40 NHL, 8.5 NFL, 81 MLB and 41 NBA regular season home dates. Even for a city that gets 40 million visitors a year. there is incredible competition for the spend.

it is far more then "talk"

and vegas has THOUSANDS of tourism events a year .. not just those ..

[bamarsha]

I know the talk. I know Las Vegas is sexy and shiny. I don't think it really adds up. We are talking over 160 tourism games a year, when you figure 40 NHL, 8.5 NFL, 81 MLB and 41 NBA regular season home dates. Even for a city that gets 40 million visitors a year. there is incredible competition for the spend.

I'm not sure there can ever be too much "stuff" in Vegas. It just means people will go more often and even more people will start going. There is something for everyone in Vegas... and even more "stuff" in Vegas off the strip.

[catcherinthewry]

Louisville would be a great NBA city. Do they have the deep pockets and corporate base to bring one to town? Humana, GE Appliance, UPS, Brown- Forman, Yum Brands (KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut) and Papa John’s are HQ’d there.

That is an impressive list, but UPS's HQ is in Atlanta. Though Louisville is their major air hub.

[Laramie]

There use to be another forum called Thunderfans. This conversation came up about Las Vegas (5 years ago IIRC) and I stated then that Vegas once they got approved for NBA
or NHL they wouldn't stop util they secured all four leagues. Right now they have NHL, NFL and soon to have MLB. It's a matter of time and they will have NBA expansion.

What's unique about Las Vegas and Nevada is LV has a MSA population of 2,336,573 (cc: 660,929) with the state of Nevada 3,104,614. It's the tourists who will support their
big league franchises. By comparison Oklahoma City has a MSA population of 1,477,926 (cc: 702,767) with the state of Oklahoma 4,088,380.

Nevada occupies 110,572 and Oklahoma occupies 69,899 equates to 40,683 more land in Nevada. Water, Nevada 0.7 vs Oklahoma 1.9

My conclusion if Nevada can support four big league franchises in Las Vegas; then Oklahoma should be able to support two (NBA and NHL). That's
why our new arena should be equipped to support NBA and NHL. Or Tulsa should pursue an NHL franchise since their MSA population 1,044,757
exceeds 1 million (per big league franchise) and they have an arena BOK Center with a ih capacity of 17,096--truly a big league arena.

What's more unique about Tulsa, they have the corporate firms (Fortune 1000) to support another big league (NHL) franchise in Oklahoma.

[Rover]

My conclusion if Nevada can support four big league franchises in Las Vegas; then Oklahoma should be able to support two (NBA and NHL).

Maybe if the Casinos in OK start giving thousands of tickets to their patrons we can compare the demand between the two and look at supporting two professional teams.

As for Tulsa, there are a number of bigger and financially stronger cities for the NHL to consider.

[Laramie]

Looking at the construction of what is now Paycom Center, if we build an arena with similar or more size (750k sq ft) and capacity 18,500 it will
occupy 1/2 of the 4 square block site. Anxious to see the early preliminary renderings with specs.

Also can't recall what else is proposed to be built on that site.

[Laramie]

Maybe if the Casinos in OK start giving thousands of tickets to their patrons we can compare the demand between the two and look at supporting two professional teams.

As for Tulsa, there are a number of bigger and financially stronger cities for the NHL to consider.

Austin (2.5m), Portland (2.5m) and Virginia Beach (1.8m). Right now Austin & Virginia Beach doesn't have an NHL arena--Tulsa does. And Portland's NBA franchise has taken a hit averaging 17,240 in an arena that seats 19,411.

When you combined OKC (#47) -TUL (#61) as one market, the two metros combine for 2,522,683 with a TV viewership of 1,250,000. By comparison Salt Lake City supports NBA and NHL in the same arena with 1,267,864 MSA.

Mayor Cornett in 1996 NHL expansion derby pushed OKC-TUL as one TV market when Norick-Bennett failed to secure that final
4th franchise that went to Columbus, OH (Bluejackets).

[Plutonic Panda]

I know the talk. I know Las Vegas is sexy and shiny. I don't think it really adds up. We are talking over 160 tourism games a year, when you figure 40 NHL, 8.5 NFL, 81 MLB and 41 NBA regular season home dates. Even for a city that gets 40 million visitors a year. there is incredible competition for the spend.

I believe there are soon to be two NBA ready arenas under construction with one that already exist. They are doing an expansion near the Rio, and they are about to build a huge hotel that will be the tallest one yet on the northern end of the strip with what it’ll probably be one of the most if not the most expensive NBA arena in the world.

[aDark]

My conclusion if Nevada can support four big league franchises in Las Vegas; then Oklahoma should be able to support two (NBA and NHL). That's
why our new arena should be equipped to support NBA and NHL. Or Tulsa should pursue an NHL franchise since their MSA population 1,044,757
exceeds 1 million (per big league franchise) and they have an arena BOK Center with a ih capacity of 17,096--truly a big league arena.

What's more unique about Tulsa, they have the corporate firms (Fortune 1000) to support another big league (NHL) franchise in Oklahoma.

Another day, another attempt by Laramie to bring the conversation to hockey in Oklahoma.

[Laramie]

Another day, another attempt by Laramie to bring the conversation to hockey in Oklahoma.

Why not, this is a forum, where we engage in civil discussions.

[bamarsha]

[INDENT]
Also can't recall what else is proposed to be built on that site.

It's downtown, so I am sure at least one parking garage will be built there with it. Haha!

[Laramie]

It's downtown, so I am sure at least one parking garage will be built there with it. Haha!

Yes, thanks for the reminder, the 600+ parking garage for sure since the site will lose those 900 slots below ground.