OAK (formerly Penn Central)

[Pete]

It goes to the same small group of developers because there are few developers in the city either qualified or brave enough to take on extremely complex projects of scale in the parts of town where the City wants to focus redevelopment efforts. Where are the other developers who are willing to take on projects in the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in the City's areas of incentive? They don't exist.

There have been many developers who have built things in the core that didn't get TIF.

[Midtowner]

Midtowner needs to step into the shoes of developers to gain a more realistic perspective on real estate development. Unlike SimCity, it's a highly risky and complex business.

It's not so risky when you take from a school district which primarily serves disadvantaged children to pad your bottom line.

[Midtowner]

It goes to the same small group of developers because there are few developers in the city either qualified or brave enough to take on extremely complex projects of scale in the parts of town where the City wants to focus redevelopment efforts. Where are the other developers who are willing to take on projects in the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in the City's areas of incentive? They don't exist.

Oh please.

So if I take on a plaintiff's case and it is extremely challenging and complex and I end up getting a defense verdict, I ought to be able to expect the public to bail me out at the expense of public schools?

Why are developers so special in this regard? Why do they get to be unique in that their business model is backed up by the taxpayers? Are developers the only kinds of businesses that take risks?

[Urbanized]

It’s not about specific developers or whether they are somehow special or deserving. You have this incredibly twisted. It’s about what is a strategic need for the community, and what pushes the city forward and builds the overall tax base in the bargain.

Oklahoma City had multiple generations of disinvestment in its core and in areas like the Eastside, which has the added burden of institutional redlining for decades.

Try to get a conventional bank loan for commercial real estate in NE OKC. Try to build residential in the core. Try to develop much-needed and much-desired retail or mixed use in the core. Try to renovate a historic structure with environmental issues. But…only do so if your renovation can meet stringent design guidelines that don’t exist AT ALL in the suburbs. Try workforce housing. These things are virtually impossible without significant assistance.

Oklahoma City has spent the past 30 years trying to overcome the radical disinvestment that happened here for more than half a century preceding MAPS, and despite the progress we’ve made this city still has a long, long way to go to catch up. TIF is simply one of the most effective tools to assist in this effort. Your mind and the minds of some others on this site have simply become poisoned to this concept in part because undue and extreme negativity towards TIF here goes largely unchallenged.

[Pete]

^

Except the huge percentage of all private development has been done without any TIF whatsoever.

Everyone realizes something like First National or the Skirvin needs help.

[HOT ROD]

In all fairness, TIF usually accounts for infrastructure improvements the city should be paying for anyway. We can't always assume that a location in the core is ready-set for developement; particularly MODERN projects.

I don't see it as taking anything from the schools since there isn't anything from the current property valuation going to the developer. Ad Valorem yes, but it should have a realistic timeline to retire and eventually add to the schools.

[Pete]

In all fairness, TIF usually accounts for infrastructure improvements the city should be paying for anyway. We can't always assume that a location in the core is ready-set for developement; particularly MODERN projects.

This is completely false and you have no understanding of how TIF is used.

[Pete]

I took this yesterday of Mesero; they still have a long way to go.

I bet they are pushing for spring.

[bison34]

I took this yesterday of Mesero; they still have a long way to go.

I bet they are pushing for spring.

There seem to be a lot of stores/restaurants announced for this that have done very little towards opening, or even being ready to open. Any word on them? Is there something in the water, or just timing issues?

[HOT ROD]

This is completely false and you have no understanding of how TIF is used.

Im not sure why you and others like to condescend everything I post. My post was not false at all, even if OKC doesn't exactly divy out TIF per the historical standard/method.
Here is a simple definition from wikipedia which clearly states what I posted (what next, you doubt wikipedia?):

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tax increment financing (TIF) is a public financing method that is used as a subsidy for redevelopment, infrastructure, and other community-improvement projects in many countries, including the United States. The original intent of a TIF program is to stimulate private investment in a blighted area that has been designated to be in need of economic revitalization.^[1] Similar or related value capture strategies are used around the world.



Through the use of TIF, municipalities typically divert future property tax revenue increases from a defined area or district toward an economic development project or public improvement project in the community. TIF subsidies are not appropriated directly from a city's budget, but the city incurs loss through forgone tax revenue.^[2] The first TIF was used in California in 1952.^[3] By 2004, all U.S. states excepting Arizona had authorized the use of TIF. The first TIF in Canada was used in 2007.^[4]

Look, If you want me not to post on your forum, just say so! Otherwise, I'd appreciate a little bit of respect on what I do post. Thank you.